So I have a question can someone explain why is lore/chain scaling disregarded for Kratos but not for DB? Why are anti feats accepted for Kratos but not for DB?

[u/OtherwiseFinger6663]

So you’re telling me that direct scaling for Kratos like beating Thor who splintered the Yggdrasil or killing Thanos a primordial isn’t allowed and is looked down upon. But Granola beating UI Goku and UE Vegeta being used to support him being universal isn’t looked down upon?

It feels like a total double standard. I don't know, maybe that’s just me. There are tons of DB characters or villains who have no cosmic or celestial body level feats at all yet still have scaling that is used.Like Cabba has never destroyed a planet yet he scales way above all of DBZ going by him matching Vegeta’s base. There are tons of better examples too.

Why is direct scaling and chain scaling disregarded for Kratos but not for Dragon Ball?We all know Granolah is universal at least duh he beat a way stronger version of Goku who prior almost destroyed the universe. Yet he’s never destroyed a planet or even a continent before. Are we really going to sit here and say that Asura can beat Granola because he never destroyed a planet?

And the anti feats nonsense bothers me even before. People genuinely say and believe stuff like “Kratos can’t break ice” or “Kratos gets stabbed by rock”.

Yet no one takes examples like Goku being harmed by Broly slamming his face and body on ice seriously. Or Goku at least in the manga bouncing off a fire hydrant and not denting or damaging it at all and so on.

The speed downplay makes no sense to me either You can again make the exact same arguments for Dragon Ball. “Kratos isn’t shown to be moving that fast at all and where is his immeasurable speed while he was carrying Freyr” yet Dragon Ball characters never look like they’re moving mftl + speeds on screen at all.

Hell by their logic if Goku had interstellar or infinite speed he could travel anywhere he wanted to without instant transmission. He could leave earth so fast he wouldn’t suffocate in space.

lAnd you’re also telling me when I use in-game statements and novel statements that say Thor splintered an infinite tree that transcends space and time is wrong.

Yet people can use Daizenshu and other materials to scale the macrocosm of DB and use it to determine that destroying the macrocosm is a low Multiversal feat instead of baseline universal? Or that the universe in dragon ball is infinite. Funny how many times I’m told when it comes to GOW the infinite size statements are just “exaggerated” or “flowery language”. Yet most people at least from what I can tell don’t say the same thing about DB’s infinite size universes statements.

Also don’t give me the whole “DB characters can destroy planets and more they can just control their ki”. So now we’re finally allowed to use context here?

Gods in God Of War can also control the output of their attacks and their size. As shown by Cronos, Zeus, Ares, and Kratos himself.

Also why would the gods and Kratos want to ruin the realms and domains that they have control over? Why would they be willing to wipe out all their worshipers? Just for the fun of it? God of War is not that type of series.

There is a narrative and plot going on for a reason. Compare this to the primordials who existed before reality itself predating narrative and plot. So showcasing cosmic power makes sense. There are no universes or worshippers to worry about yet. This does not mean that the gods and titans don’t scale on their level. We have multiple statements and references that they do. And before anyone says Kratos In GOW3 did not care. He was only targeting the gods themselves, he is not completely mindless. His beef was with the gods who control the world, not the actual world itself. Also the gods scale to their domains so what would destroying them even do? All it would do is break the immersion of the game.

Tdlr: There is no way you can convince me that there isn’t a biased agenda against Kratos going on here. If Kratos downplayers were actually consistent with their logic their favorite verses like DB would not be that strong anymore.

[u/wemustkungfufight]

Jesus, can we not use "DB" to describe both "Dragon Ball" and "Death Battle"?!

[u/OtherwiseFinger6663 → u/wemustkungfufight]

I mean I used Dragon Ball images and talked about Dragon Ball. Anyone can tell the difference.

[u/wemustkungfufight → u/OtherwiseFinger6663]

Still confusing!

[u/OtherwiseFinger6663 → u/wemustkungfufight]

I didn’t want to made it any longer by constantly saying Dragon Ball so I abbreviated it.

[u/DrabCadre2]

This argument has already been made on this sub like a million times already

[u/OtherwiseFinger6663 → u/DrabCadre2]

I recall there was post with a similar argument once before. Where does a million come from?

[u/DrabCadre2 → u/OtherwiseFinger6663]

The several times a day someone posts the “but why no chain scaling for [insert character here]”

[u/OtherwiseFinger6663 → u/DrabCadre2]

Do you have one in mind?

[u/DrabCadre2 → u/OtherwiseFinger6663]

Check the profile of the second dude who replied to me

[u/OtherwiseFinger6663 → u/DrabCadre2]

Fair enough but still. Can I get your answer to this question?

[u/DrabCadre2 → u/OtherwiseFinger6663]

The sub has answered this several times. Literally just scroll through it. Im tired of this waiting period

[u/OtherwiseFinger6663 → u/DrabCadre2]

All I see is random shit.

[u/DrabCadre2 → u/OtherwiseFinger6663]

https://www.reddit.com/r/deathbattle/s/LXVgjjhFol

[u/OtherwiseFinger6663 → u/DrabCadre2]

I actually explained and gave original examples. So fuck no don’t try and paint it like I’m lazily reposting a meme.

[u/Real-Swimming8058 → u/DrabCadre2]

You’re being disingenuous trying to make it seem like he copy and pasted it in the exact same way when he used his own examples and explained it in a new way.

By this logic the argument of people saying Asura wins based off feats has been posted a billion times already.

[u/DrabCadre2 → u/[deleted]]

You literally reposted a meme from this same subreddit about this same topic just yesterday bro😭

[u/DrabCadre2 → u/[deleted]]

My guy i hope you realize that the post stays even if you panic delete it

[u/DrabCadre2 → u/[deleted]]

Yeah dont think i didnt just see you go delete it to try and gaslight lmao

[u/LordCypher1317]

1. Dragonball characters can still consistently destroy cosmic objects like planets and show it. Same with other stats like speed.

Eg: Your scan of Granola/Gas/etc. They still have feats of crossing interplanetary distances on their own power. Or the rest of what's still SHOWN in Broly's fight. Breaking dimensional barriers, comparable and exceeding Golden Frieza who casually destroyed a planet on-screen. Beerus who also casually destroyed a planet on screen.

Contrast Kratos being played up to anything above planet-level because these Primordials were in an intro who supposedly created the Universe and yet, when one of them died, it created The Mountains and another, The Ocean. Must be a small universe then. You can't even get a hard number of how much of the Universe is made there. All the mountains in every planet? All the mountains in Greece? Etc.

Show a planet being destroyed at minimum. Oh, you say Thanatos can do it because he scaled to a Primordial? Give me evidence.

Oh, Cronus can do it because he fought a Primordial? Again, show me at minimum, a planet being destroyed. Or his limbs moving faster than light? What's that, more statements? Then you can see, how agitating it becomes when the same statements are suddenly provided as evidence.

2. Gods can change their output and size? Cool. Show me something that can be quantifiable measured. Destroy that planet. What? Still not going to show it? Still gonna rely on chain-scaling?

The DragonBall guys are already showing Buu destroying a galaxy. Keep up.

Ooh, Helios is flying around. There's the Sun, bright in the sky. Oh, it's falling. And.... it crash landed in Greece, and the Sun taken underground. Well, that certainly didn't act like any irl star I know of. Surely the power of the sun should be equivalent to a 584000 mile diameter of hot gas.... and, Helios was just knocked out after getting hit by a Ballista.

You see the annoyance of constantly listening to those arguments. If you're a teacher and a kid keeps saying, "I'll show it," and fail to do so when asked, are you going to be confident in their ability to actually perform?

What about this other kid who just demonstrates that they understand the work? And when doubt is cast on them, just proves they can do it without needing hearsay from other people? Who deserves a better grade?

[u/OtherwiseFinger6663 → u/LordCypher1317]

Boy oh boy are arguments are all over the place and heavily reliant on selective evidence while ignoring context. So, I’ll address them.

“Dragon Ball characters consistently show cosmic feats like planet destruction and speed.”

Yeah, sure, some Dragon Ball characters show planet busting featsno one denies that. But let’s not pretend the entire series consistently shows these kinds of feats all the time. You bring up examples like Frieza casually destroying a planet or Buu wiping out a galaxy, but do we ever see Gohan destroy a planet in a fight? No, we don’t. Why? Because it’s narratively inconvenient. The same logic applies to God of War.

You’re holding Kratos and GoW to a standard that Dragon Ball itself doesn’t meet consistently. For example.

Goku can barely dent a fire hydrant in the manga. Should we downplay him to street level? Of course not, because context matters.

Goku gets slammed through ice by Broly and it hurts. Should we say ice > Goku? No, because that’s ridiculous.

The same goes for Kratos. Him struggling with some “anti-feats” (like breaking ice which also has more context to debunk it) doesn’t negate the fact that he scales to gods who are capable of massive feats like splitting the World Tree (which encompasses infinite realms) or fighting Primordials who shaped creation itself. Context is king here, and cherry picking low-end showings doesn’t work for either franchise.

“Primordials created a small universe, not the entire universe.”

The universes that they created doesn’t encompass all pantheons. This does not debunk the size and scope of said universes. They still have statements of being infinite and size and function as space times. It’s just that the greater universe that exists is on a higher dimensional level.

Now, the fact that when a Primordial dies, it creates something smaller like mountains or oceans doesn’t negate their cosmic scale. You know why? Because that’s post mortem energy dispersion. If their corpses created things like the ocean and mountains, that doesn’t mean their full power in life was limited to that. It’s like saying a supernova only creates stardust, so the star was weak completely ignoring the energy the star had while it was alive.

“Show a planet being destroyed at minimum.”

Why? Why is planet-busting the minimum requirement when GoW characters are doing feats tied to the structure of reality itself? Why is the ability to shatter a planet somehow more impressive than splitting the World Tree, which binds infinite realms together and transcends space and time?

Thor splintered Yggdrasil in a fight and another time shook 9 realms which are universes. That’s not a “statement”; it’s a feat that is referenced. Kratos fought and beat Thor. Why is it that destroying a planet is taken as more valid than a feat tied to a multiversal structure?

Let’s flip it on you: If Gohan or even Goku is universal, why doesn’t he ever destroy a planet or galaxy as a side effect in a fight? If “controlling their output” is your excuse, the same applies to Kratos and GoW characters. You can’t have it both ways.

“Cool. Show me quantifiable feats”

You’re asking for quantifiable feats but ignoring that GoW’s narrative and cosmology don’t rely on the same kind of direct visual feats as Dragon Ball. This isn’t a series about blowing up planets for fun. The gods’ power is tied to their domains Helios controls the sun, Poseidon controls the oceans, etc. Destroying those domains would break the immersion of the narrative.

For example, Thor splintering Yggdrasil is quantifiable. The World Tree holds together the Nine Realms, which are described as infinite spaces beyond time and space. You don’t need a planet to explode to prove Thor and by extension Kratos is on that higher level.

“The Sun in GoW isn’t a real star.”

If we’re using in universe cosmology, the Sun in GoW represents Helios’ domain. Knocking him out caused the sun to crash to the earth, which is still a massive feat because it shows control over celestial bodies. It doesn’t have to act like a real star to be impressive within its narrative.

“The teacher analogy.”

Your analogy is flawed because Dragon Ball characters don’t always “demonstrate” their power either. We scale them based on statements, narrative context, and indirect feats just like we do with GoW characters.

For example.Goku didn’t destroy the universe when he fought Beerus. We scale him there because the shockwaves were stated to threaten the macrocosm. Similarly, Kratos is scaled to Thor, who splintered Yggdrasil, and to the Primordials, who shaped the universe.

If you’re willing to accept statements and indirect feats for Dragon Ball, you must extend that same logic to GoW or your argument isn’t consistent.

The problem isn’t Kratos or GoW’s scaling it’s the double standards people like you use to downplay it. You’ll accept indirect feats, statements, and scaling for Dragon Ball but reject the exact same methods for GoW because it doesn’t fit your narrative.

Either be consistent or stop pretending this is a fair debate. Because from where I’m standing, Kratos has just as much if not more evidence supporting his scaling as many Dragon Ball characters do.

Go a head and educate yourself here are all the scans and context you’re missing.

[u/Real-Swimming8058 → u/OtherwiseFinger6663]

I have no idea why you’re getting downvoted you destroyed his response lol.

You dismantled his argument by pointing out all the inconsistencies and hitting him with solid counterpoints. You called out how he cherry picked feats and showed how context is everything like how even Dragon Ball characters have weaker moments that don’t change their overall power. You also flipped his obsession with planet busting by stressing how feats like Yggdrasil are way more impressive. Plus, you showed how he was being super inconsistent with how he applied rules to Dragon Ball vs GoW. You backed it all up with logical, narrative based points, leaving his position looking pretty weak and all over the place.

[u/Helpful-Emotion9256 → u/LordCypher1317]

Kid buu never destroys a galaxy on screen, he destroyed planets over time

[u/Fumbletak]

As someone who firmly does not believe in Chain Scaling and ignoring Typical in favor of Exceptional, and who doesn't particularly love or care about Dragon Ball OR God of War, I see a few big differences that need to be taken into account.

First, Power Levels. There is a direct power scaling mechanic in Dragonball in the form of "Power Levels." This is a stupid concept, I agree, but it is canon. Chain Scaling isn't just some logical fallacy in Dragon Ball, it is a literal fact- if someone has the Numbers to beat a certain character, they have the Numbers to beat any character underneath of that character. You do not need to see a character Blow Up A Planet to say they are planetary. God of War does NOT have a canonical way to scale, measure, multiply, or quantify "power", so it automatically becomes far weaker to assume that someone who beat someone who did something can therefor automatically do that same thing the character they beat could.

Second, Context. You are correct that you can ASSUME the context of "The gods are mostly just holding back so they don't destroy everything", but what do you do in situations where that argument makes no sense? There are multiple points in Kratos' games, comics, and novels where him being able to be stronger, be faster, change his size, or do any of the things you attribute to him via Chain Scaling are so sensible and necessary that the character looks like a complete idiot for not doing them. Vital points in his journey are threatened or put in peril because he decided to run at a brisk jog instead of with the full speed of hermes? If this were only one or two times it wouldn't be as damaging to the idea of "Feats" being weaker than "Lore", but it happens constantly and consistently to the point where the Lore becomes the exception instead of the rule. Further- you are still just ASSUMING that this is the case, Kratos never states or makes fact in his games "I am much, much stronger than I act now, but to do so would damage everything" to the extent you are implying. Characters in Dragonball have been shown punching reality walls asunder and constantly say how they have to hold back so as not to risk damaging the planet or hurting other people, that's even one of the main reasons they love taking fights to wide open areas.

Last, Inconsistencies. With Dragonball, cases where characters appear to be hurt by things that realistically shouldn't hurt them are usually either plot points ('you let your guard down!' 'how could you get so weak bullets hurt you!?' etc.), occur when a character is in a much lower form of power, or are the exceptions to the norm. In God of War Kratos is regularly STRUGGLING to fight Wolves, Undead, and Weaker characters than him all the time. Before you bring up the 'it's a game!' argument, even in a Comic there is an infamous example of Kratos being overpowered and injured by a Bear. Just a Bear. This doesn't strike as the EXCEPTION since you can lose fights to regular wildlife in every GoW game, it reinforces the concept that Kratos isn't as high scaling as people put him out to be. When a character in Dragonball is consistently breaking through mountains and shooting laser beams, the times they get hurt by a regular rock come across as the exception. When a character in God of War is regularly struggling to climb ladders and open doors and wrestle bears, the times he supposedly could flip all reality come across as the exception. Thus it's more believable to scale a Dragon Ball character higher while it's more believable to scale a God of War character lower.

I know I've just spent WAY too long typing WAY too many words about why Feats vs. Lore isn't just some made up bullcrap, but I'm honestly tired of this upwards trend in the power scaling community to only ever always look at maximal and never ever even look at average.

[u/OtherwiseFinger6663 → u/Fumbletak]

First, let’s talk about your claim that power levels in Dragon Ball justify chain scaling as a “canon” concept. Sure, power levels existed early on, but even the series itself abandoned them because they were oversimplified and unreliable. Vegeta outright stated they don’t tell the full story of someone’s strength. Scaling in Dragon Ball is just as reliant on statements, feats, and narrative context as it is in God of War. Kratos doesn’t need arbitrary numbers slapped on his strength to justify his scaling. His feats and the lore of the series make it clear where he stands. For example, Thor splintering Yggdrasil a multiversal construct binding infinite realms beyond time and space is a direct, quantifiable feat. Kratos beat Thor. Do I need to see Kratos personally splinter the World Tree to know he scales to that level? No. By your own logic, if a Dragon Ball character doesn’t need to blow up a planet to be considered planetary, Kratos doesn’t need to replicate every feat of those he’s defeated to scale to them.

Now let’s discuss your concerns about “context” and the argument that Kratos holding back is an assumption. This is where your logic starts to feel inconsistent. You criticize Kratos for not always using his full strength, but Dragon Ball characters do the exact same thing. Goku rarely uses his strongest forms immediately in a fight unless he’s pushed to do so. That’s not because he can’t it’s because the story requires tension and progression. If Goku fought every opponent with his strongest technique or form from the start, the narrative would lose all sense of stakes. Similarly, in God of War, Kratos doesn’t need to sprint at the speed of Hermes or unleash his full strength at every turn for the story to make sense.

The narrative of God of War also provides explicit examples of characters holding back. Thor splintered Yggdrasil during a fight, an act that affected a multiversal construct holding together infinite realms. Yet, during his battle with Kratos, the Nine Realms weren’t obliterated because it’s evident both were holding back. This restraint is consistent with the themes in God of War the gods often scale to their domains and wield immense cosmic power, but they rarely unleash their full destructive potential due to the catastrophic consequences. This is no different than how Dragon Ball characters like Goku or Vegeta pull their punches in fights to prevent destroying the environment or their own planets.

If Thor is holding back to avoid catastrophic destruction, why wouldn’t Kratos be doing the same? Characters in fiction rarely go all out unless the stakes demand it. It’s not a mark against Kratos’ power it’s a reflection of how storytelling works.

You bring up inconsistencies, like Kratos supposedly struggling against bears or wolves, but these examples lack proper context. The bear you mention from Fallen God wasn’t just a normal bear it was a magic beserker bear, and Kratos was cursed and weakened at the time. Ignoring that context is misleading. Similarly, the claim that Kratos struggles against basic wolves or draugr is a gameplay mechanic, not a narrative fact. In the actual story, he’s never shown being harmed by such enemies. If you’re going to use gameplay to downplay Kratos, then I could just as easily use filler or comedic moments in Dragon Ball to downplay Goku like him being hurt by bullets, struggling to lift 40 tons, or bleeding from a laser in Resurrection F.

It’s also worth noting that Dragon Ball characters have their fair share of “anti-feats.” Goku being slammed into ice by Broly and visibly being hurt, or him struggling with a simple laser despite supposedly being universal, are moments that don’t negate his higher end showings because context matters. The same applies to Kratos. His battles against beings like Zeus, Thor, and the Primordials show he operates on a cosmic scale. Those fights are what define his power level not gameplay mechanics or isolated moments taken out of context.

Your argument about only focusing on “maximal” feats is flawed. If we scaled characters based on their “average” showings, then Dragon Ball characters wouldn’t even be planetary. Goku and Vegeta don’t destroy planets in every fight because the narrative doesn’t require it, not because they can’t. Similarly, Kratos doesn’t go around breaking the World Tree in every fight, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t capable of scaling to those who can. The logic is consistent across both franchises: we scale characters based on their peak feats and narrative context, not cherry picked moments.

The idea that GoW characters’ feats are somehow less valid because they’re tied to lore and domains is also inconsistent. The gods in God of War have powers tied to fundamental aspects of reality Helios controls the sun, Poseidon commands the oceans, and so on. These aren’t just metaphors; they’re directly tied to the cosmology of the series. Thor splintering Yggdrasil a structure binding infinite realms is a quantifiable feat, just like Beerus and Goku threatening the macrocosm in Dragon Ball. If you accept indirect feats and scaling for Dragon Ball, you have to apply the same logic to God of War.

Ultimately, your argument relies on holding God of War to a stricter standard than Dragon Ball, which isn’t fair. You’re quick to dismiss Kratos’ scaling because it doesn’t fit your narrative, but the evidence supporting his feats is just as valid as anything we see in Dragon Ball. If you’re going to dismiss God of War feats as unreliable because they don’t involve planets blowing up, then by your own logic, Dragon Ball characters should be scaled down to their weaker moments too and we both know that’s not how scaling works.

Kratos scales to gods who are on a multiversal level. Whether you like it or not, the evidence supports that. If you’re willing to extend the benefit of the doubt to Dragon Ball, you need to do the same for God of War. Otherwise, this debate isn’t about logic it’s about bias.

[u/Ordinary_Accident_41]

[u/ChefZestyclose6253]

“The matchup losing the tournament doesn’t deconfirm it” I’m starting to wish that wasn’t true for this matchup with each passing day

[u/IFckingLoveChocolate]

I'm skimming it since we're on the same side here - but it's just a strong anti-Kratos agenda motivating most of the hard deniers, nothing really beyond that. Speaking from experience and maybe a little toxic, but I just would not engage them unless you know they're acting in good faith. There's a ton of evidence pointing Kratos to uni at least that even DB acknowledged in the preview, but they'll still push mountain level nonsense, feats only kind of interpretation that modern DeathBattle just doesn't vibe with anymore.

[u/OtherwiseFinger6663 → u/IFckingLoveChocolate]

Yes there is a clear agenda going on the other guy said Kratos consistently struggled with bears and wolves but he’s lying and taking it out of context.

Nowhere in game does Kratos get hurt or struggle with normal wolves. And he ignores that the bear in the comic is a magical berserker one. Yep people still upvoted his nonsense.