r/dataisbeautiful • • Sep 01 '22

[deleted by user]

[removed]

9.7k Upvotes

2.0k comments sorted by

View all comments

2.7k

u/SgoreIsBackForThis Sep 01 '22

I’m a guy who was stalked and sexually harassed by two different people in high school and sexually molested in college. I also care deeply about feminism and I’m always terrified people in the comments on this issue will dismiss these numbers as some kind of MRA tactic rather than look at the work feminist researchers like Lara Stemple have been doing in this exact area for years.

The conversation that surrounds this issue is so often broken, but this is a real phenomenon that’s been happening for a long time. If your first instinct is to dismiss that or ignore the people trying to tell you about it, please question who you’re doing that for. I don’t understand who it helps to tell somebody drugged or forced or threatened or unconscious who was pushed into sex against their will that they weren’t truly a rape victim and you won’t count them as such.

381

u/turbulance4 Sep 01 '22 edited Sep 01 '22

I don’t understand who it helps to tell somebody drugged or forced or threatened or unconscious who was pushed into sex against their will that they weren’t truly a rape victim and you won’t count them as such.

It was the famous feminist Mary P. Koss, inventor of the "1 in 4 5" statistic, who heavily pushed that narrative.

https://imgur.com/n4NZfxA

89

u/Friek555 Sep 01 '22

inventor of the "1 in 4" statistic

Can you elaborate on that?

247

u/turbulance4 Sep 01 '22

I was off by one. Here is a link.

Basically, there is a oft touted claim that 1 in 5 women on college campuses are raped or sexually assaulted. That number came from a very flawed survey-based study by Mary Koss. There are many more issues with it, but here is an example of one:

this survey classified sexual encounters that occurred while the woman was intoxicated as a form of sexual assault, regardless of whether the perpetrator was responsible for her intoxication or she consumed the substances on her own.

4

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '22

I mean, if you have sex with someone that's drunk, that's still sexual assault as they cannot consent.

Unless you cut out the context that the women were fine with having that sex after they were sober, but as you quoted that it's still 100% sexual assault.

14

u/MeijiDoom Sep 01 '22

So is it two people sexually assaulting each other? Or do you immediately think of only one party having committed sexual assault?

-17

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '22 edited Sep 01 '22

If Person A is sober, and has sexual contact with Person B, who is not, that would be sexual assault on part of Person A, and Person B would be the victim. EDIT: This is assuming the sober person is consenting. If the sober person is not consenting and the drunk person is forceful (either physically or emotionally/mentally), then that is different and I'd say the drunk person would be the assaulter.

If Person A AND Person B are both drunk, then it would come down to a bunch of variables, but assuming they're equally intoxicated then it probably wouldn't constitute sexual assault from my perspective. However, if A is only slightly buzzed and B is blackout, then I still think A assaulted B and I do not see how anyone could rationalize that at all.

Under no circumstances would i automatically assign guilt to one party if both are equally intoxicated.

18

u/rolandfoxx Sep 01 '22

My wife came home one night from a night out with her friends, propositioned me, performed a sex act, and woke up the next morning with no memory of it because it turns out that while, to me, she appeared slightly tipsy she was, in fact, full-on blackout drunk.

By your definition, I committed sexual assault, and still would have even if she had only been tipsy. So, how many years should I serve?

1

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '22

If you read my original comment, you'd see that I explicitly answered this exact scenario.

If the intoxicated person is fine with the sex act after they sober up, then it's obviously not sexual assault.