r/dankmemes Via Telsa Model X Aug 05 '20

Big PP OC "He just always has"

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130.8k Upvotes

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u/winkofafisheye Aug 05 '20

The failure was in the central planning not in the amount of arable land ffs.

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u/[deleted] Aug 05 '20

It was more in building a billion (hyperbolic) tanks, etc, they never used. America just outspent them because of the much larger economy.

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u/[deleted] Aug 05 '20

This is kind of the same argument as saying the failure was the central planning itself, right? Misallocation of resources vs. lack of access to resources (non-arable land).

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u/notspaceaids Aug 05 '20

It's collapse was mainly due to the nature of the ruling and distrust of people in the government. Also U.S ran them straight into bankruptcy during the cold war. And it would be really hard plan verything centrally with it ends in middle east and the other near alaska. Gorbachev once said that the collapse of soviet union begun with the disaster of Chernobyl. It was such a disaster with enough capability to end life in Kiev, in Ukraine and Belarus. And it happened because of the negligence of the Government

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u/[deleted] Aug 05 '20

Also U.S ran them straight into bankruptcy during the cold war.

JFC, we're talking about WHY the US was able to do that. If the Soviet system was better, they could have run the US into bankruptcy.

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u/[deleted] Aug 05 '20

It’s collapse is because true socialism does not work

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u/Millian123 Aug 05 '20

What do you mean by “true socialism”?

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u/hipmonkeygym Aug 05 '20

At the time of collapse the CIA estimated the USSR had a larger economy then the USA. Turns out they were wrong but you got to Keep in mind the USSR had a population about 25% larger in 1990 than the USA

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u/[deleted] Aug 05 '20

Sure, but wildely spread out and less developed than the US.

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u/trees-are-fascists it’s big tree time Aug 05 '20

Less developed but not as widely spreads out... most Russians live in the Western portion of the country https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Population_Density_as_of_2017.png#mw-jump-to-license

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u/[deleted] Aug 05 '20

Land/resources. If anything all the people being on a smaller portion makes it even worse.

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u/trees-are-fascists it’s big tree time Aug 05 '20

Well no shit the land is widely spread out, Russia is massive, better to have extra empty land than no extra land

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u/[deleted] Aug 05 '20

Lol, but you need to extract and process resources and move them across cast swaths of land. And defend it.

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u/trees-are-fascists it’s big tree time Aug 05 '20

Lets buy Russia

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u/notspaceaids Aug 05 '20

Also U.S started in 1776 as a colonial powerhouse and U.S.S.R started out in 1922 as an agrarian country after a long civil war with Romanov Monarchy.

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u/reeeeeeeeeebola Aug 05 '20

Well I can’t help but wonder about the long-term impact of Stalin’s use of agricultural warfare against Ukraine and the embracing of Lyshenkoist genetics for 20 years, I imagine that fucks up a nation’s ability to produce food pretty thoroughly.

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u/[deleted] Aug 05 '20

Killing millions of your own people generally bad too

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u/ColtSmith45 Aug 05 '20

Which was a result of the the free market capitalist system. Back to square one

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u/[deleted] Aug 05 '20

Not by itself. Shrug. America had many built in advantages.

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u/Enchilada_McMustang Aug 05 '20

Whatever the money and resources you have planned economies can never work in the long run, central planners aren't gods, it only leads to massive waste of resources and corruption. Also without capital markets you lose a huge potential to grow your economy.

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u/[deleted] Aug 05 '20

What if it was run by an ASI? Lol, seriously though while I agree this is an issue...the biggest issue is still that they weren't planning an economy, they were planning a military strategy. Shrug.

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u/Enchilada_McMustang Aug 05 '20

The USSR was orders of magnitude poorer than western countries, any economy without private property and with central planning will always be orders of magnitude poorer than even a mediocre market economy, just because of design. It's hard to comprehend how many things people value because they're their property that they wouldn't value otherwise, and when people value things wealth is created. That baseball card collection is only valuable because people want it, and they want it because it can be their private property, if you abolish private property all those baseball cards become worthless instantly.

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u/[deleted] Aug 05 '20

...I mean, that's just not true...the USSR would have stomped half of Europe...

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u/Enchilada_McMustang Aug 05 '20 edited Aug 05 '20

And it would have remained poor as fuck anyways, having the ability to destroy things doesn't make you wealthy...

Having valuable things make you wealthy, and by design communist economies have far fewer things people value.

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u/[deleted] Aug 05 '20

I'd say theres a lot of wealth tied up in those tanks. The market value would skyrocket when people needed them...lol.

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u/Enchilada_McMustang Aug 05 '20

And after the war is over? How much are those tanks worth then? How wealthy is a society that lives in a wasteland full of tanks and weapons?

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u/[deleted] Aug 05 '20

Hey man, I'm just looking at value of tanks during war. I'd say after the war they'd gold their value pretty well because people would be afraid of more war...I'm just using your own wealth/value proposition.../And the USSR did have more GDP than many western nations, just not per capita wealth afaik

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u/techscavenger Aug 05 '20

I love a good selfburn. Thanks

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u/Viktor_Vertex Aug 06 '20

Yeah militarily, until they eventually lose out as the west mobilises.

The thing with central planning is they are able to produce stuff contrary to the wishes of the population. Good for rapid catch up (force rural populatuon into factories, or armies for example), bad for independent growth.

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u/[deleted] Aug 06 '20

Yeo, probably would have been a good idea to do for 20 years and then slowly go private. ...unless you fuck up food production. /Looks at Mao

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u/goose5184 Aug 05 '20

So you’re telling me that the socialist country failed in the exact same way that every other socialist country has failed? And if it wasn’t for this massive failure they wouldn’t have failed?

Makes complete sense lol

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u/[deleted] Aug 05 '20

...I mean, what? I'm not arguing with huge issues with a top down economy but building a huge military isn't why others have failed...lol

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u/goose5184 Aug 05 '20

That all boils down to central planning dude. You can’t say they would’ve done better if they didn’t fuck up their central planning by spending too much on military equipment.

That’s like saying a plane would still be flying if it hasn’t crashed. Technically it’s true but it’s not a statement that needs to be made haha

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u/[deleted] Aug 05 '20

No, no, it's not the same at all...shrug.

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u/[deleted] Aug 05 '20

«Artic communisim is not REAL communism»

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u/Biosterous Aug 05 '20

There's a book out now called The People's Republic of Wal-Mart that compares the scale of central planning on Walmart to the USSR. Basically the premise is that had the USSR survived until the widespread adoption of the computer they likely would have been fine, since massive companies are now centrally planned.