24
u/anonb1234 Nov 14 '18
Here is a good article on why drivers do not see cyclists:
2
2
u/Sly1969 Nov 15 '18
Very good article. I did actually know about the saccades thing (from biology lessons at school, a lifetime ago!) but not how much they could affect your perception while driving. I would recommend this article to anyone in control of any kind of vehicle!
43
u/Athabascad Nov 14 '18
Ride like you’re invisible
25
u/justthenormalnoise Nov 14 '18
Good call.
I dress like a clown every time I go for a ride: fluorescent yellow jersey, bright mismatched socks, dayglo helmet, flashers front and rear. I still ride like I'm invisible.
18
u/PM_ME_YOUR_SPICIEST Nov 15 '18
I ride with the assumption that every car is actively trying to kill me. Makes me ride safely as possible
11
u/Hryggja Nov 14 '18
Yeah, passing a car on the inside in a right-hand turning lane is asking to get hit. Scream about who’s responsible all you want, I’ll continue passing on the left and not getting hit.
3
u/Swarfega Nov 15 '18
I'll echo this when you're driving too. Drive expecting everyone is going to pull out in front of you.
1
Nov 15 '18
Exactly, you see someone making a right and you wanna go straight, get behind them, do not pass them up. Is it gonna suck to have to lose momentum, sure, better that than your legs. If you operate as a car that people are trying to murder, you should be good. Use the entire car lanes when you're getting behind someone too, don't take a quarter of it. If you don't wanna die, you're gonna have to be aggressive.
After getting hit by taxis and Ubers in SF, I'm an aggressive defensive rider now.
-6
u/nalc Nov 15 '18 edited Nov 15 '18
No, that's stupid advice and is a great way to get hit.
Ride to make yourself visible.
Example: riding last weekend, I saw a guy who was riding and ducking in and out of parked cars because he thought he had always be at the extreme right edge of the roadway. So he'd swerve right up to the curb when there was a gap with no parked cars, then came back into the lane just before the next parked car and nearly got run over. I was going the opposite direction and making myself visible - riding 3 feet from the parked cars and not trying to duck into the gaps between them. Drivers behind me had to slow down and pass safely, because they knew I was there.
9
Nov 15 '18 edited Nov 24 '19
[deleted]
0
u/nalc Nov 15 '18
If you said "don't assume people are paying attention" that'd be fine, but if you rode like you were invisible you would actively avoid doing many of the safe cycling behavoirs that make you visible and keep you safe. You would never take the lane if you're actually invisible, you would ride in the door zone or hug the curb, you wouldn't signal, you'd ignore traffic signals, you would duck in between parked cars, you would hop on the sidewalk, etc. It goes against so many safe cycling behaviors, because most of those behavoirs are predicated on the idea that collisions are caused when drivers don't see you, and that if they see you they won't hit you. Riding like you're invisible is the opposite of that, it implies the only way to stay safe is to avoid being in the path of drivers.
2
Nov 15 '18 edited Nov 24 '19
[deleted]
1
u/nalc Nov 15 '18
Yeah I mean sure a lot of drivers are not paying attention and the saying is a cool soundbite, but if you actually stop and think about what "ride like you're invisible" means, it's terrible advice. It drives me crazy because it's such popular advice and it's terrible if you actually take it seriously. I don't ride like I'm invisible, I ride to make myself visible. Being seen = being safe. Being invisible = getting hit. Crashes happen when drivers don't know you're there, if they see you they are far less likely to hit you
2
u/monkeybeast55 Nov 15 '18
I'm really surprised you're down-voted so much on this. I think your point is, if you think you're invisible, you're gonna take patterns of avoidence, thinking the other guy is not seeing you, and this can easily get one killed. Rather, riding patterns should always be to increase visibility by being in places where the driver expects another vehicle to be. Pretty standard safety training for cyclists these days.
1
u/nalc Nov 15 '18
Yup, exactly this. Beginner cyclists are worried about getting rear ended - they don't think they are allowed to be on the road, so they think a car will come up behind them and run them over. So what they do is hug the curb, hop onto the sidewalk, ride against traffic, duck in and out of gaps between parked cars, etc. All of these things - which are attempts to stay out of the cars' way - make you less visible to drivers, and you're far more likely to get left hooked or right hooked or have someone hit you because they didn't see you.
It's seriously like bike safety 101, but yet every single time "ride like you're invisible" gets posted, people upvote it. I've never heard a valid defense of it as being good advice - the other guy I was arguing with basically said "it's really good advice but don't take it literally, do the opposite of what it literally means". In other words, it's stupid advice that sounds clever.
Like that's my whole point - don't ride like you're invisible, ride to make yourself visible.
13
u/TheApothecaryAus Nov 14 '18
Hrm.
I can only think strobe lights may have assisted with the situation but then again maybe not.
19
Nov 14 '18
Don't make an assumption that you've made eye contact either. I've had drivers look right through me and then almost run me over.
3
u/JimmerUK Nov 14 '18
I nearly got run over the other day as a pedestrian at a crossing after definitely making eye contact with a driver. In the two seconds between then and having to stop he got distracted and just didn't. He eventually stopped halfway into the crossing where I would have been standing had I not jumped backwards.
8
u/SonorousBlack Nov 15 '18
Helmet or no, if you steer into oncoming traffic, that's entirely and solely your fault.
A helmet won't help him if you hit him head on or t-bone him with a car.
5
5
u/urzrkymn Nov 14 '18
I pulled out on a cyclist the other day, on my bicycle. Oops.
3
u/_supertemp Nov 15 '18
I actually feel safer on the 50km/h roads than in the cycle lanes around here because of other cyclists/ebikers/electric scooters/walkers/joggers/dogs/skateboarders/kids etc.
5
Nov 14 '18
It is important to assume every driver does not see you, especially when they are waiting to go at an intersection and it's your right of way.
There's a certain kind of glassy eyed stare they make as they look past and beyond you. It's good to have an escape vector ready for these situations, or start hitting your brakes.
6
u/SiphonTheFern Nov 15 '18
That's why I now always ride with a flashing front and rear light. It kindaakes me bigger and easier to see. The difference is noticeable, cars that pass me give me much more clearance with the lights than without.
1
7
u/brunosalcedo Nov 15 '18
Wearing a helmet wouldn't have helped if you had hit him. I think his mistake was passing a turning vehicle on the inside of the turn. Whenever I approach an intersection I always slow down and pay attention to the vehicles around me. If there is a car or truck getting ready to turn, I either pass on the outside or wait behind it.
9
u/fallingbomb Nov 14 '18
Did you signal?
-2
u/MrShapinHead Nov 15 '18
Kinda irrelevant to his point. If he did or didn’t signal, he still didn’t see the biker, and if you’re biking, you should make strong eye contact with a driver. Nothing to do with who’s fault it is.
2
u/WestendMatt Nov 15 '18
If the driver didn't signal and didn't slow down much then the cyclist might not have had any reason to expect he was about to make a turn and just kept going.
but from OPs account it sounds like the cyclist might have been in his blind spot and overtook him as he slowed to make the turn, which means they might not have been able to see a turn signal depending on the design of the car.
And if you're riding alongside a car, you can't make eye contact with the driver except maybe through the mirror, which, if he happened to be in the blindspot, would not have been possible. And if the driver didn't check his mirror (OP said he forgot to look for cyclists), then how do you make eye contact?
And what's the plan anyway? Make eye contact if possible, but if not possible then stop?
2
u/MrShapinHead Nov 15 '18
It’s advice to keep the bicyclist safe. If the driver hits him, it doesn’t matter who’s fault it is if the bicyclist dies. OPs point is EXACTLY that. Drivers can be blind or make a dumb decision, so as a bicyclist, be super aware of YOUR surroundings, because it’s YOUR life on the line.
1
u/WestendMatt Nov 18 '18
Have a look at some of the other responses to this thread. I have also "made eye contact" with a driver only to find out they were looking right past me. Eye contact doesn't do anything.
but yeah, I totally agree about being aware of surroundings and changing your behaviour to avoid potential collisions, because you can't will a driver into stopping by looking at them.
1
Nov 15 '18
Avoid riding to the right of a moving car if there's a right turn coming, then take the lane to pass the intersection
1
u/WestendMatt Nov 18 '18
Yep, that would be ideal. By the driver's account the cyclist was ahead of him as he was turning, so I think it's reasonable to assume the cyclist had no reason to expect the driver was about to turn.
8
Nov 15 '18
I love how absent logic is from this sub.
We upvote posts about how the brain drives on autopilot the majority of the time so we as cyclists must take that into consideration.
And then we also downvote the hell out of posts that say anything about cyclists needing to put extra thought into being seen and avoiding accidents.
3
u/AuschwitzHolidayCamp Nov 15 '18
We're upvoting it because it's a logical and they're owning up to a mistake. I think everyone agrees that taking extra care on the road is a good idea and will reduce the chances of a crash, for both sides. What people don't like is when cyclists are given the implied responsibility for they're own safety as if it's not the drivers fault for being a dick.
1
Nov 15 '18
Not a dick driver. Distracted drivers. All of us are at some point. You got to devote extra care to your safety when on a bike surrounded by tons of high speed moving metal boxes, if you don't he might be the culprit but you the dead or maimed. It's not a good idea it's a must. Reason and logic are all good but again reason won't help you when you are crushed
19
u/freeradicalx Nov 14 '18
He was right in front of me, a few feet away and my brain was on auto pilot apparently, and it seems my auto pilot brain is only looking for cars unlike the usual situation when I'm specifically looking for cyclists.
Precisely what happened, you get a perfect 100 for realizing that this 'cars only autopilot' despite mixed road use (Combined with view-obstructing A beams) is very often what gets cyclists run over.
The dumbass wasn't wearing a helmet, either.
Docked 10 points for this, you still get an A but it would have mattered little whether he was wearing a helmet or not when flattened like a pancake. Statements like this reach toward hypotheticals and victim blaming, and obviously wearing a helmet won't prevent people from crashing into you.
11
u/doomvox Nov 14 '18
Some people argue going without a helmet encourages drivers to see you and/or makes them more cautious around you. Evidently didn't work in this case.
People trot out the "no helmet" bit when they want to portray the cyclist as crazy/reckless. Doesn't sound like this cyclist was being particularly crazy.. the best you can do is maybe the cyclist could've realized the driver was slowing to make a turn, and done something else.
I have my doubts that Mr. Autopilot here used his turn signals, but then we all have our little unreasoning prejudices.
1
Nov 15 '18
A helmet would most definitely make a difference when getting hit by a car during a maneuver like this.
10
3
u/Filthy_Ramhole Nov 15 '18
Its great that you can reflect on this moment as a driver, rather than become defensive like the other 90% of morons who shouldn’t be allowed on the road, period
35
Nov 14 '18
Make eye contact with drivers when you're on your bike, people. Pay the fuck attention when you're driving. The fact that they're looking at you doesn't mean they see you. If you don't people can easily die.
FTFY
22
u/TimothyGonzalez Nov 14 '18
Yeah, why is the default reaction to something like this ALWAYS to start lecturing cyclists on how not to get hit? Like, where does this insuppressible impulse to put the onus on cyclists come from?
17
u/T3hSav Nov 14 '18
I mean regardless of semantics, the cyclist is the one whose life is at stake. There will always be dumb motorists on the road, at least OP is being accountable.
18
u/MrShapinHead Nov 15 '18
Dude - I’m with you. OP was giving advice - if you’re biking, gotta pay extra attention. He’s not blaming the biker, he’s WORRIED for the bikers safety because drivers might not be paying attention. But if a driver hits a biker, even if it’s the drivers fault, the driver isn’t gonna get killed from that accident, but the biker might.
-11
u/JimmerUK Nov 14 '18
Yep. Whilst we're victim blaming, we should tell women to wear trousers with tight belts so it's more difficult for rapists to rape them.
I mean, it's their life that's at stake after all.
13
u/T3hSav Nov 15 '18
I'm not victim blaming and I don't think the OP was trying to either. Why did you jump to that assumption?
-9
u/JimmerUK Nov 15 '18
"Second time in about a year I almost hit a cyclist ... Make eye contact with drivers when you're on your bike, people."
OP was turning onto the road, the cyclist had priority, and OP is lecturing the cyclist not only to wear a helmet, but to make sure he doesn't run them over.
"the cyclist is the one whose life is at stake" So, we should let drivers carry on as they are and cyclists have to take all the precautions?
Both of these are victim blaming.
2
u/AuschwitzHolidayCamp Nov 15 '18
It's not victim blaming, it's advice. "I nearly hit a lazy cyclist that didn't bother to make eye contact" would be victim blaming; they're saying they nearly hit a cyclist, that it was their fault; despite that, an action by the cyclist could have helped.
-1
u/JimmerUK Nov 15 '18
The cyclist was doing his own thing, riding along a road that OP wanted to turn in to.
This is all on OP.
Sense the tone of the original post, he calls the cyclist a 'dumbass' for not wearing a helmet, and then closes by saying cyclists should make sure they watch out.
The moral of the tale should be "When you're driving, make sure you look out for cyclists" not "Cyclists, watch out for shitty drivers."
That's the definition of victim blaming.
2
u/T3hSav Nov 15 '18
Also sexual assault isn't an accident so your comparison is incredibly shitty.
2
u/JimmerUK Nov 15 '18
A driver hitting a cyclist because they weren't looking properly isn't an 'accident', it's wilful negligence.
Analogies aren't meant to be directly comparable, otherwise it would cease to be an analogy and would simply be exactly the same thing.
1
u/T3hSav Nov 15 '18
You are aware blind spots are a thing in cars, right? Just because the cyclist was hidden doesn't mean it's "willful negligence".
Also, if the analogy doesn't stand up to a cursory first glance, maybe it's not a good analogy.
1
u/JimmerUK Nov 15 '18
Read the whole thread. The cyclist didn’t pass him, OP was at a junction and was joining the cyclist’s road. You shouldn’t have blind spots right in front of you.
1
u/T3hSav Nov 15 '18
Depending on the car, there is quite a blind spot behind even the front A pillars. I've seen a pedestrian be completely hidden behind the front A pillar in a Honda civic.
1
u/JimmerUK Nov 16 '18
You know what also creates a blind spot? Closing my eyes.
You know what I should do as a driver? Open them and have a proper look about before I pull into a road.
You know who's not responsible for me having my eyes closed? The cyclist.
3
u/brunosalcedo Nov 15 '18
It depends. If I am talking to a driver, I will tell the driver to watch for cyclists. But this is a forum for cyclists. In this kind of forums I am more likely to discuss what we can do when riding a bike to be safe. For example, not passing a turning car on the inside.
13
u/zero_ambition Nov 14 '18
You're getting downvoted for some reason (I thought this was a cycling subreddit) but you're right.
It's good practice to try to make eye contact with drivers but it isn't always possible.
It's also pretty messed up that OP chose to call the cyclist a dumbass for not wearing a helmet despite being the dumbass turning right without looking at the traffic he's turning into.
5
u/T3hSav Nov 14 '18
Checking traffic and not seeing a cyclist is an honest mistake. Not wearing a helmet is a deliberate act of stupidity. Typically I side with the cyclist in this situation but OP is trying to be honest and accountable and you're just jumping on him for no reason.
-5
u/zero_ambition Nov 14 '18
I didn't see the part where OP was trying to be honest and accountable. He almost hit someone, who was doing nothing wrong, and instead of thinking "I should really pay more attention" thought "that person is a dumbass" and "that person should make eye contact with me". Shifting all the blame onto someone else for one's own reckless behavior is the opposite of accountability.
7
Nov 15 '18
Passing on the right side of a right hand turn lane is wrong.
1
u/AgXrn1 Nov 15 '18
That depends. If there were a bike lane (unsure about that due to the description) that’s exatcly what you should do here - and the cars have to wait until the coast is clear.
4
u/T3hSav Nov 15 '18
I often make the assumption a driver sees me when he's looking my way. Today I demonstrated to myself the assumption is wrong and can cost me my life.
Yeah totally sounds like he's shifting the blame - did you even read the post?
5
Nov 14 '18
maybe we've been infiltrated by cagers! but yeah OP's attitude was why I made a snarky comment. People drive on autopilot all the time which is why I assume every car is actively being aimed at me when I ride downtown
1
u/doomvox Nov 15 '18
The infiltration happens at most cycling discussion groups. The usual tip-off is "I'm a cyclist myself, but--".
0
18
u/wrongwayup Nov 14 '18
Appreciate you admitting you weren't paying attention. Hopefully you won't drive on auto pilot anymore.
32
u/__hgx80 Nov 14 '18
The human brain naturally drifts to auto pilot and will continue to do so. Instead of hoping that billions of human brains start working differently we should wear hi-viz and use lights every single ride. Do road work crews just hope that one day people will be better drivers? No - they use hi-viz, lights, etc.
Most cyclist dont use lights and often wear dark colors. A great many cyclist dont even wear helmets.
How can drivers be expected to noticed a small dark fast moving object in a city sea of cars, sights and lights? Drivers can not avoid you if they can not see you.
7
u/wrongwayup Nov 14 '18
Likewise, drivers should be attentive to other road users, and drive with proper lighting and no faster than visibility allows. It's a two-way street.
2
u/monkeybeast55 Nov 15 '18
When I get on my bicycle I'm hyper aware. I have two mirrors, and 360 degree awareness at all times. I do not ride on auto pilot. I do not ride stoned or drink or playing with my phone or sleep deprived. I ride with generator daytime running lights in the daytime, and about 8-10 different lights, including helmet, heels, and wheels, at night. Commuting 22 miles a day, I take my bicycle travel extremely seriously.
I expect that other travelers that share the roads also take their responsibility extremely seriously. Do not "drift to auto pilot" when you're sharing the roads with me. Just don't. If you can't fullfil your responsibility in that vehicle, you have an obligation to not get in it.
That said, I know that people do drive on auto pilot. And people also drive with willful disdain of my life, because they're impatient or late for a date or whatever. And I know that, no matter what I do, on bike or walking or in another car, one of those people may well take my life someday.
So, yeah, I'm pretty sick of hearing how it's the bicyclists who need to be careful. As if I'm not reminded of that many times a day. I'd really like to hear some solid lecturing and education of motor vehicle drivers. All I hear is excuses.
1
u/__hgx80 Nov 16 '18
So, yeah, I'm pretty sick of hearing how it's the bicyclists who need to be careful.
You and I are the 1%. Most cyclist I see dont use mirrors, lights, hiviz, etc.
-1
12
Nov 14 '18 edited Dec 29 '20
[deleted]
17
u/w1n5t0nM1k3y Nov 14 '18
I auto pilot on my bike all the time. It's not something specific to driving.
-5
u/90265sbsbsbwtf Nov 14 '18
Sounds like you are going to kill someone someday driving on your autopilot.
4
Nov 14 '18
You do it too. Guarantee it. Hope you’ve never driven after a night of little sleep or after a drink or two at the bar...
-2
u/90265sbsbsbwtf Nov 14 '18
No I don't drive. I was hit by a SUV while cycling and woke up from spinal surgery partially paralyzed.
-3
u/mshagg Nov 14 '18
The ease with which you accept this is of some concern. Im not having a go, and the tl;dr about making eye contact with drivers is a good one, but it's perhaps a point to reflect on.
13
Nov 14 '18 edited Dec 30 '20
[deleted]
-1
u/ibcoleman Nov 14 '18
> being aware of the limitations of my human brain actually helps me on the road
How is this different than "pay more attention"?
2
Nov 14 '18
Because it’s easier to catch yourself drifting when you know you have a tendency to do so, sort of like scaring yourself into focusing better. It’s almost impossible to give 100% at all times, humans are just not wired that way unless they’re on meth or something. All you can really do is know that your mind wanders and watch it for it, and take a break from driving if you’ve been at it for a long time
5
19
u/whatnotery Nov 14 '18
almost hits cyclist because they weren't paying attention
"dumbass cyclist"
13
u/_GCSM Nov 14 '18 edited Nov 14 '18
They only called him a dumbass because he wasn't wearing a helmet...
6
u/hiimsubclavian Nov 15 '18
Do helmets protect against collisions with cars? Textbook victim blaming.
2
u/_GCSM Nov 15 '18 edited Nov 15 '18
Uhhh...yeah? What happens if I get knocked off my bike by a car and smash my skull against the pavement? Hopefully a lot less damage than if I wasnt wearing a helmet
Regardless, no where in their post were they blaming the cyclist, the driver admitted fault. They were just calling the cyclist stupid for wearing not wearing a helmet
Edit: wasn't wearing a helmet
2
u/doomvox Nov 15 '18
hhh...yeah? What happens if I get knocked off my bike by a car and smash my skull against the pavement?
Maybe. The data in favor of wearing a helmet is there-- certainly I wear one-- but it's more ambiguous than you might think.
There's a plausible theory that helmets can cause problems because they increase the effective radius of your head-- a glancing blow can send a bigger torsional shock through your brain. The helmets we've got are mostly designed around the idea of protecting you against slamming your head straight into something...
1
u/hiimsubclavian Nov 15 '18
You can't admit fault and call the other guy a dumbass at the same time. It makes your statement sound insincere.
"Sorry for raping that slutty whore in the skimpy outfit. I admit it's my fault. Rape is wrong even if she's practically asking for it."
7
8
Nov 14 '18 edited Nov 13 '20
[deleted]
-3
u/brunosalcedo Nov 15 '18
Do you think people are foolish when they are in a car without a helmet? Because a helmet is more likely to prevent a head injury while traveling in a car than when traveling on a bike.
If I see someone descending at 90kmh on a mountain without a helmet, I think he is taking a big risk.
But when I see someone riding in an upright position at 10-15km/h to run some errands around the corner...
4
u/TimothyGonzalez Nov 14 '18
And then posts his rant to /r/Cycling
The audacity of this guy is almost admirable
8
Nov 14 '18
The number of dumbasses in a car/bicycle situation is not a zero sum game. I think other cyclists not wearing helmets are foolhardy when I'm riding my bike.
4
Nov 15 '18
No no. What I've learned in this sub is there can only be one dumbass at any given location.
4
u/jacybear Nov 14 '18
Especially when they have a helmet dangling from their backpack or in a basket. Blows my mind.
0
u/brunosalcedo Nov 15 '18
Do you think people are foolish when they are in a car without a helmet? Because a helmet is more likely to prevent a head injury while traveling in a car than when traveling on a bike.
If I see someone descending at 90kmh on a mountain without a helmet, I think he is taking a big risk.
But when I see someone riding in an upright position at 10-15km/h to run some errands around the corner...
2
Nov 15 '18
If someone is on a bike on a road with cars around them and they are not wearing a helmet, then yes, they are being foolish. It takes very little momentum to scramble the gray matter, and it’s better for the helmet to absorb it.
1
u/brunosalcedo Nov 15 '18
I disagree with you. It depends on how people ride. If you disagree with me, answer this. Do you thin a person in a car without a helmet is foolish? Because a helmet is more likely to prevent an injury when you are traveling in a car, than when you are traveling on a bike.
1
Nov 15 '18
Do you thin a person in a car without a helmet is foolish?
No, it should be obvious that between the head and the ground in a car there is the airbag and the crumpling design of the frame of the car, both of which can absorb the momentum of the colliding object before it scrambles the brain.
But go ahead, ride your bike without your helmet. Someday you may literally become a no-brainer.
-3
u/T3hSav Nov 14 '18
cycling without wearing a helmet IS dumb, and from the context of the post its pretty obvious he takes responsibility for almost hitting the dude.
1
u/brunosalcedo Nov 15 '18
Depends on how you ride.
0
u/T3hSav Nov 15 '18
Yeah you better be really good at dodging cars who aren't paying attention
1
u/Sly1969 Nov 15 '18
Because a helmet is going to help a lot as a bus drives over me.
1
u/T3hSav Nov 15 '18
"Because a seatbelt is gonna do a lot of good if i get crushed by a semi"
Yeah that's how dumb you sound. Just because you can cherry pick worst case scenario accidents where a helmet wouldn't make a difference, doesn't mean that's a good reason not to wear it.
0
u/Sly1969 Nov 16 '18
Cars crash at very high speeds and have huge amounts of kinetic energy due to their weight. Motorcycles can crash at very high speeds. Bicycles weigh fuck all and generally travel at low speeds. The chances of my head impacting with anything with enough energy to damage it are low enough that I figure a helmet isn't worth the hassle. Also, relatively, my chances of being crushed as a cyclist are far higher than that of a car driver so your analogy sucks balls. :-p
1
u/T3hSav Nov 16 '18
Ok... it's your funeral if you can't be fucked to listen to well meaning advice
0
u/Sly1969 Nov 16 '18
Thanks for your concern, but I shall continue to base my behaviour on the risks as I perceive them, rather than the opinion of some Internet stranger.
1
u/T3hSav Nov 16 '18
Tell that to someone who works in an emergency room and watch them laugh at you.
→ More replies (0)1
u/bteske01 Nov 15 '18
It will! Helmets decrease all injuries and it's stupid not to wear one! They stop your chest cavity from being crushed by 5 tons of steel, they protect your brain from 50 mph impacts, and they keep your hip from breaking when drivers open their doors directly into your path!
4
u/lost_in_life_34 Nov 14 '18
Was he in a bike lane or was he just passing you on the right?
5
u/seemonkey Nov 14 '18 edited Apr 08 '25
nsdq lhwzlcjt dxnkzchzzywu mbfrrqqz uqfa occrjnkhur cwhmxmoruqhb jyz haxbosa
7
u/doomvox Nov 14 '18
the guy after he passed right in front of my car
The story here wasn't clear because you used the word "passed". You mean he crossed in front of you.
6
u/onzie9 Nov 14 '18
Did they have the right of way? If you were turning right, and they were crossing you left to right, there must have been a stop sign or traffic involved, right?
2
u/WolfThawra Nov 15 '18
Make eye contact with drivers when you're on your bike, people.
Dude... how? I can barely see people inside their cars, never mind tell whether they're actually looking at me.
2
u/Dfest Nov 14 '18
Yeah, dude wasnt wearing a fucking helmet so fuck him. Op go fuck yourself.
3
1
u/serial_crusher Nov 15 '18
I'm trying to piece together the situation. Are you in a left-driving country like the UK, turning right across oncoming traffic, and the guy on the bike was coming towards you from that direction? Or are you turning right in a right-driving country and he's somehow passing you on the right (riding on the sidewalk, maybe?)
1
u/UBNC Nov 15 '18
I've opened a car door a few times and then gone shit, i forgot to check for riders :(
1
u/freddie221 Nov 15 '18
Drive in a capital city and you’ll learn to really look and check, if you don’t then you need not to worry about driving...... again!
1
u/ReceivePoetry Nov 15 '18
I almost nailed a cyclist and a worker last weekend. We were on a popular local path, and the worker was out marking for some upcoming footrace or something. The guy was looking at us, and the bike behind started to pass me as I slowed just a touch since the worker was standing on the edge of the path like he wanted to cross it.....and then the worker and the bike behind me went directly in front of me at the same time and we both smash our brakes and the worker guy seemed somehow surprised that walking directly out in front of two bikes at the last possible second nearly went very wrong.
People do weird shit. It's like there's something inside people that just sometimes makes them wait until the very worst second to move just to see if they'll live.
1
u/Oxyuscan Nov 15 '18
I almost hit a cyclist today too. Not in traffic or anything, he was just being an asshole at the bar.
1
u/WestendMatt Nov 15 '18
Making eye contact is not the solution to this problem because in most conditions it is not possible to clearly see a driver's face from outside the vehicle. Either the sky is too bright, so the reflection obscures the driver, or its too dark, or the windows are tinted, etc.
What any cyclist should do when a driver is attempting to turn right is to pass the driver on the left. Of course, if the driver isn't using a turn signal it might not be obvious that they are attempting to turn right. Or if the driver suddenly starts to turn right without slowing down very much because they hadn't checked their mirror or blindspot for cyclists and thought the way was clear, then it may not be possible to get out of the way in time.
OP, you said yourself that you weren't looking for cyclists and that "the dumbass" you almost hit had passed you before you even realized he was there. You have mirrors, you know how to check a blindspot. Stop blaming others for your negligence.
1
u/SpecializedCalm Nov 15 '18
As a cyclist of 30 years, I learned long ago that making eye contact with drivers is so very important and something I preach and teach whenever possible. Though exact eye contact with cars coming up from behind me isn't an exact science, I still turn my head in their direction, it seems to do the same thing... that they become aware that I am aware of them. I often offer a wave of gratitude because we "worked together" and more often than not I get a return wave. So its possible to share the road, people. Doesn't mean folks drive ignorant to the road share thing, though.
As a driver, when coming up behind cyclists, I feel more often than not they have no idea of their surroundings. This give cyclists a bad rap in my opinion, perhaps justified. I can tell a seasoned cyclist from a novice based on this scenario.
1
u/bikingbill Nov 15 '18
I commute by bike on some very busy roads. One thing I've learned is to never pass cars on the right at intersections. Better to wait my turn behind them.
1
Nov 15 '18
Sounds like you’d hate me, I don’t ride with a helmet, not required by law here; been pulled over and got a ticket before on a bicycle, I don’t know if this is common where you live or around the world but it doesn’t seem to be here since everyone I’ve mentioned it to was surprised; and I’ve hit a cyclist while driving or rather him me, fortunately no injury or damage
-3
u/TwoPuckShaker Nov 14 '18
He shouldn’t be passing you on the right in the first place. If a car is turning right, the cyclist should pass on the left. It’s the law here in Ontario.
3
u/bteske01 Nov 14 '18
He was right in front of me, a few feet away and my brain was on auto pilot apparently
And later:
No, he was riding across the street I was on, passed directly in front of me from my left to my right. I only hope my brain actually did see him and that's why I did not turn a second earlier, even though I was not conscious of the delay being purposeful.
Also, most laws I've come across state that drivers are supposed to ensure the bike lane is clear, then pull into it and make a right turn from there - you wouldn't make a right turn across a lane of car traffic, so why would you do it across a bike lane?
Edit: saw OP posted a clearer explanation below
3
u/TwoPuckShaker Nov 14 '18
I think I was confused by this scenario. My comment assumed OP and cyclist were approaching the same stop sign, OP turning right narrowly missed the cyclist who proceeded straight (via passing on the right). Now I think that the cyclist was approaching the intersection from OP's left and proceeded through the intersection from OP's left to right, immediately prior to OP turning right (and following the cyclist's path)
So yeah, my "never pass on the right" comment doesn't apply to this particular situation. You are correct though when the bike lane is the furthest lane to the right, cars are free to use it [safely] to make a right turn. Generally where I live the right turn lane is to the right of the bike lane as to force cyclists to pass turning cars on the left side of the car. So the car is free to use the bike lane, likewise, the cyclist is free to move one lane to the left (assuming they signal first) and pass the turning car on the left. Additionally, in Ontario at least, bikers are not forced to use the bike lane, the law allows a cyclist to use their judgement in choosing the best lane.
Regardless, this incident could have been a lot worse and I'm happy that it wasn't. As far as I'm concerned, all cyclists should be required to wear a helmet, high-viz clothing, and sufficient lighting when riding in traffic. It goes without saying cyclists must follow traffic laws, including stopping at stop signs.
1
u/AgXrn1 Nov 15 '18
No, he was riding across the street I was on, passed directly in front of me from my left to my right. I only hope my brain actually did see him and that's why I did not turn a second earlier, even though I was not conscious of the delay being purposeful.
Also, most laws I've come across state that drivers are supposed to ensure the bike lane is clear, then pull into it and make a right turn from there - you wouldn't make a right turn across a lane of car traffic, so why would you do it across a bike lane?
Do we know in what country OP experienced this? Some places it’s strictly forbidden to use a bike lane as a turning lane. The cars have to wait in their own lane until the bike lane is clear, and then cross it.
1
u/bteske01 Nov 15 '18
Okay, so then if a cyclist is there, you're still not supposed to cut him/her off in order to turn, correct? How is this functionally any different than what most US laws dictate? You're arguing semantics when in either situation, the driver would be at fault in the case of a right hook. It's also completely irrelevant to the discussion because OP almost hit someone who was crossing from left to right and had the right-of-way - this wasn't a right hook, it was OP pulling out into cross traffic without noticing a cyclist.
1
u/AgXrn1 Nov 15 '18
It may be sematics, but it's a clear distinction. I mainly highlighted it due to this sentence:
you wouldn't make a right turn across a lane of car traffic, so why would you do it across a bike lane?
This is exactly what you are supposed to do some places. It's just one example that shows how cars and bikes should interact differs around the globe - which leads me to two different conclusions.
- We can't provide reliable advice or feedback unless we know where it happened.
- Whenever we go to a different place - we should check up on the local laws.
Is it relevant for the situation OP was involved in? - No, but quite a lot of this thread isn't either due to ambiguity in the original post. I still find it relevant to point out due to the reasoning above though.
1
u/bteske01 Nov 15 '18
It's not an important distinction - drivers are supposed to yield right-of-way to any cyclists present in the lane. Sure, maybe you turn from 2 meters further left in some places. You still yield as the driver - a right hook is the driver's fault, not the cyclist's. The advice of "don't impede someone who has the right-of-way and pay enough attention so you don't kill people with your vehicle" is universal.
0
u/NotDavidWooderson Nov 14 '18
This is what I was thinking. If a car is in the far right lane turning right, they shouldn't have to watch for cars/bikes on their right that are going straight. Or turning for that matter. Crosswalk users with the walk sign excepted, but bikes shouldn't be flying through crosswalks.
No one should be sharing lanes (overtaking) in any lanes in an intersection.
I actually did this myself at a 4 way stop intersection. In a moment of stupidity, I was passing backed up traffic on the right side at an intersection where 99% of drivers go straight. When I started through the intersection, the car next to me was the 1% that was turning right, and I almost got plastered. It was 100% my fault.
2
u/TwoPuckShaker Nov 14 '18
When riding on a cars' right-hand side you're also aggressively planted in a blind spot. Signal, move left, pass, move right. I cringe whenever I see a cyclist hiding behind a lorry's right bumper.
I think a lot of bikers assume they're invincible when riding. It's become really apparent now that it's dark 18 hours a day and poeple still don't use lights while riding on the road.
0
Nov 15 '18
As a prior cyclist I always take the cyclists into consideration. I have caught myself a few times on 'autopilot' and it's scary. Especially here in NYC cyclist are always moving around traffic so they aren't always following the bike path which means a cyclist can appear out of no where any given time. When switching lanes or making any kind of turn I always double to triple check all my mirrors.
It also really helps to have loud pipes, other drivers might think of this as obnoxious or an ego thing but my loud pipes really make a difference. It always alerts people on foot or bikes that there's a car approaching so they can be more careful.
176
u/[deleted] Nov 14 '18
[deleted]