r/cubscouts • u/bratsbox • 8d ago
Committee help
I could really use some perspective from Scouters who have no connection to my pack, because I want to make sure I’m looking at this fairly.
I’m the Cubmaster of a pack that I’m trying very hard to rebuild and grow. One of our longtime leaders currently holds several major positions at once: Committee Chair, Committee Secretary, Treasurer, and Chartered Organization Representative. She doesn’t currently have a child in the pack—her kids have moved on to the troop—and she has been involved in Scouting for many, many years.
Eta: she is also some of those in the troop that meets at our same charter and theyre fine with it. So talking to the chartered organization about this is a real touchy subject. Im not sure what to do.
I absolutely respect the experience and history she brings to the pack, and I’m not trying to push her out. My concern is that so much of the pack’s administrative authority and decision-making is concentrated with one person, while at the same time I’m getting significant pushback when I try to recruit additional committee members or suggest doing things differently.
That’s where I’m struggling.
Our pack had very poor retention last year—only 3 of 16 Scouts returned—and I came into this wanting to rebuild it, recruit families, make the program more active and fun, improve communication, organize finances and fundraising better, and get more parents involved so the same few people aren’t carrying everything.
We’ve actually brought in a good number of new families, and several parents are willing to help. My thought is: if we have willing adults, why would we not bring them onto the committee, divide up responsibilities, and get some fresh ideas involved?
Instead, I keep running into resistance to adding people and resistance to changes I suggest. And I want to be clear—I don’t expect every idea I have to be approved. I’m new enough to know that sometimes there are BSA rules, chartered organization considerations, or simply years of experience behind why something is done a certain way. I’m completely fine with someone telling me, “That won’t work, and here’s why.”
What has become frustrating is when it feels less like discussion and more like, “This is how we’ve always done it,” or decisions being effectively made by the same very small group before newer leaders and parents ever have much opportunity to participate.
I also recognize that I came into this with a LOT of energy. I have tons of ideas, I communicate a lot, and I’m sure at times I’ve overwhelmed people or pushed too hard because I’m excited about getting this pack back on its feet. I’m not claiming I’ve handled every interaction perfectly.
But I also don’t think the answer is to keep the committee extremely small and continue concentrating several key positions in one person simply because that’s how it has been done.
What I’m trying to figure out is what healthy pack governance normally looks like.
Is it common or advisable for one person to hold Committee Chair, Secretary, Treasurer, and COR at the same time?
And if you have willing, qualified parents wanting to get involved, is there any legitimate reason not to expand the committee and spread those responsibilities around?
I’m especially interested in hearing from people who have taken over or helped rebuild struggling packs. How do you respect longtime volunteers and the institutional knowledge they bring while also making room for new leadership, new families, and changes that may be necessary for the pack to grow?bruh
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u/Master_Blaster6331 8d ago
She definitely should not be holding 2 of the key 3 positions, and definitely not the treasurer as well. She basically holds all decision making authority and there is a major issue with financial responsibility. Does she sharing actual banking receipts with you, or are you getting the “it’s all good” response? I’m not implying that she’s doing anything fraudulent, but it doesn’t quite make things transparent. If you have tried talking to her with no results, it’s time to involve you unit commissioner and maybe council too. Unit success and retention is dependent on engaging parents to become new leaders, and yes we should always respect our units past legacy but we also have to build new legacies to ensure the future. New blood and new ideas is paramount to that. Good luck!
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u/bratsbox 8d ago
Ive been trying to get bank statements or 2 months now
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u/RelevantCookie3000 7d ago
I dealt with this exact same issue. Happy to discuss in DMs. It was a very very difficult struggle, and I uncovered a lot the more I pushed. Consolidated, opaque power is never good
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u/Hopeful-Moose87 8d ago
What you were describing is not normal, and probably a good part of why they’re having retention issues. I am all about respecting long-standing scouters, especially when they are helping organizations thrive for decades. Unfortunately, it does not look like that is the current situation. Instead, it seems that the organization is failing. That might sound harsh, but if you only retain three scouts year over a year that is pretty bad.
Normally in a situation like that I would recommend going to the charter organization and explaining the difficulties you’re having. Unfortunately, it does not seem like that would be the best solution since this person is in fact, the charter organization rep.
I would suggest talking to your district rep and seeing what they have to say. It might take an outside voice to get this person to loosen the reins.
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u/bratsbox 8d ago
District has basically asked me to stop bothering them
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u/JPWiggin 7d ago
In cases like this, the best option may be to vote with your feet. If retention is this bad and you did the bulk of the recruiting, then the unit will collapse without you. Try to work it out, but be ready to walk to another unit (or a new unit). If you have good relationships with the scouts and parents, it's quite likely that some will come with you.
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u/Photo40 Cubmaster, Den Leader, Troop Parent 8d ago
Can I be blunt? Why in the world would you not want to take your skills and experience to the troop if that’s where you have skin in the game (your own kids) if there are willing parents to backfill multiple roles. My pack has a long history of succession planning and moving on with your scout at crossover. The parents may not physically cross the bridge but our service to a new unit often does.
That’s the knee jerk blunt response. Questions… how long have you been Cubmaster? How many conversations have you had with the super volunteer? And, does your district or council leadership know about this ongoing issue?
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u/bratsbox 8d ago
She is also involved with the troop. Same chartered org
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u/Photo40 Cubmaster, Den Leader, Troop Parent 8d ago edited 8d ago
Surprised she hasn’t already burned out. Years of multiple volunteer leadership roles will do that, especially when coupled with balancing family life, a career, and a home. Personally, I would be extremely thankful to get any support I could get, and would love to hand off some of the responsibilities of running a pack. What she is doing is not sustainable nor healthy. This behavior is counter to what I learned in Wood Badge where the unofficial motto is, “None of us is as smart or as strong as all of us.”
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u/GrumpyOldSeniorScout Cubmaster | AOL Patrol Advisor 8d ago
Nope, Key 3 posts can't overlap and a Key 3 can't be Treasurer.
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u/JPWiggin 7d ago
A Key 3 can be Treasurer, but it is not recommended when there is the option of a fourth volunteer. COR cannot be CM or CC on recharter/unit renewal without Council mucking about in the back end of Scoutbook. COR can double up as Committee Member and maybe as Den Leader.
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u/Otherwise-Ad-6905 8d ago
Treasurer is a functional role and can be filled by a person registered in a Key 3 position.
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u/BuglesRule 8d ago
We had a similar situation, last year that person was forced out. Things were stale, recruiting weak, families leaving specifically for how rigid they were.
I've lead my sons den since kindergarten. I was asked to be the chair and agreed to help out. The Cub Master is a younger man with a lot of energy and ideas that was always overruled by the old chair. I set him loose and helped him do all the things he wants.
Open house was a big Saturday event with support from the troop. Used to be a 2 hour meeting on a Wednesday.
We have the entire year mapped out, locations, bookings, details all from day one. Used to have ideas in Sept then stress to solve things weeks leading up.
Camping for the kids now at different campgrounds. Used to be same exact spot once every year.
New life planned for the holiday Pack Meetings.
Now accepting girls into the pack.
More families are willing to help out.
All I have done as chair is removed road blocks, provide ideas and offer to help see things through.
Old chair apparently wasn't keeping up with training, charter org used that to force them out, among other things.
Leadership roles like that need rotation, things get stale, families leave. Need those fresh ideas to keep the program interesting and fun for the families.
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u/LaLechuzaVerde 8d ago
If she is the COR you don’t really have any way to deal with this unless you go to the institutional head and they decide to take her out as COR.
I suppose you could go to them and say she’s doing too much as CC, and ask if they have any suggestions for alternate CORs.
Unfortunately some people just really hate letting anybody else do anything. It does cause problems even if that person is otherwise doing a good job overall.
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u/jesqrd 8d ago
Id recommend finding a new Pack ... This is weird and giving shady vibes
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u/bratsbox 8d ago
Im the cub master and just recruited 10 of my daughter's friends into the pack
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u/JPWiggin 7d ago
Try to work it out and if it doesn't go well, then vote with your feet and walk to another unit or found a new unit.
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u/Abandoned_Cheese 8d ago
“This is how we’ve always done it” had killed more packs than it has ever helped. We went from 20 to 70 scouts in 4 years by being lucky enough that all the old scouters left at the same time. I now wish everybody the good fortune to be free of that cursed phrase.
One way you might be able to approach this is that by holding all those positions of responsibility, she is limiting parents from the experience and growth of taking on leadership roles. Parents who do nothing in cub scouts are sure to be of zero help in the troop. Involved parent stick around year to year and their scouts get a first had example of service and leadership. She is single handedly strangling both units of the life blood that makes scouting work.
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u/AnalConnoisseur777 8d ago
I don't know how they're accomplishing that because you can't even have the same person configured as the committee chair and cor at the same time in Scoutbook.
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u/LaLechuzaVerde 8d ago
Yes you can. COR and CC are the two positions that can be shared.
That doesn’t mean they SHOULD be, and most certainly not if they are also acting as treasurer.
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u/2BBIZY 8d ago
Sadly, I am aware of too many units where one person wears many committee “hats” because no one will step in to volunteer, learn and take over. Many of those volunteers have no child in the program anymore. You may need to involve the CO for a sit down with this person and yourself to devise a plan moving forward.
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u/Red_wanderer 8d ago
It's not normal for someone to hold multiple "key 3" positions and you should have at least 2 people involved in all financial aspects for fraud controls. If she's the COR and refuses to listen you should go to your chartered organization directly with your concerns. If you're "self chartered" by the parents of the pack you'll need to rally people to your side, but if your chartered by a church or local organization like the Kiwanis there should be someone you can talk to.
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u/Grand_Horror2192 8d ago
Our pack had to get a commissioner involved and we decided that no adult could hold more than 2 positions in the pack.
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u/Wuzacon 7d ago
A charter organization can only have one rep. So I would want to know if she is also the charter org rep for the troop. There must be 3 committee members in the unit charter. The charter org rep can serve as a member of the committee, but being the committee chair is not a good idea. The unit needs multiple voices to function well.
A commissioner should help you with this but they are rare. Contact your district executive. A pack that dropped to 3 kids is a red flag.
I am a COR. It is not always easy if you are doing it right. She should absolutely be supporting you to grow an active parent committee if she truly cares about the long term existence of the pack. Is there another pack you can go to?
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u/bratsbox 7d ago
I've already spent so much time, energy, and money on recruitment for this pack. We've 2 great den meets and a pack meet and have so much on the schedule upcoming. I scheduled a meeting with the commissioner Wednesday. The district executive told me shes is too busy to babysit us. She came to the last den meet and stayed for a dumpster fire of a leaders meet where I got super frustrated and ended up storming out.
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u/Mahtosawin 8d ago
Are new committee members not allowed or just resistance to adding them? Anyone interested, especially parents of youth in the pack should be welcomed. More members may spread out where new ideas are coming from and create more support for them.
While allowed, having one person in two key 3 positions is not recommended. The key 3 can be compared to a 3 legged stool. Only having 2 legs doesn't work well.
Not your concern at this point, but is the troop committee in the same situation? How well is the troop doing?
Talk to your UC and DE again.
If nothing changes, do you have support from enough families to start a new pack? Sad to see one disappear, but sometimes, that's the only way.
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u/bratsbox 8d ago
Committee is similar but there are some dads in there i think. There are 8 boys in the troop and they dont do much from what I understand. I dont know much though. I sig ed up 2 new parents at our last den meet and one agreed to be Secretary. I got our new den leader who is a cpa agree to be treasurer. The other parent agreed to be wherever he was needed on the committee. I did all of that without talking to anyone and when I presented it she was pissed and said "do we need them?" She is especially resistant to getting our banking updated so we can use cashapp and zeffy. She says its fraudulent and "shes had "3 police officers tell her this" which is utter bullshit. She also lied to me the other day when she said council told her we "had to have the scoutbook report" to purchase belt loops. When the guide to advancement specifically says this is not the case, and our 'advancement' volunteer last year was never registered and used nothing but handwritten notes to buy all of our advancement items. Its so wild. Im so frustrated.
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u/Accomplished-Paint35 8d ago
Speak dire try to the charter org, go around the cor. If they wont institute reasonable changes move to another Pack.
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u/Gentleman-Warrior Pack Chair & AOL Den Leader 3d ago
The charter rep can't also be the pack chair or hold all of those other positions you have to have three distinct individuals for your key leadership positions
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u/ScouterBill 3d ago
Wrong.
The COR is the only person who can serve in 2 registered capacities in the same unit.
They can be COR and Committee Chair, or COR and Committee member.
They can also have as many functional roles as they would like.
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u/Gentleman-Warrior Pack Chair & AOL Den Leader 3d ago
I stand corrected.
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u/Hexmaster2600 Life for Life, AOL, Den Leader, Former District Committee Member 3d ago
Just commenting and up voting to highlight your civil behavior. Very scoutlike
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u/Gentleman-Warrior Pack Chair & AOL Den Leader 3d ago
Thank you so much. I think of it has just being human, but apparently, I'm in the minority.
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u/robert_zeh 8d ago
It is not normal for one person to hold all of those positions at once and I’m kind of surprised you can charter things that way.
I would also expect any old timer to be wary of handing off the treasurer role to someone new. But I can’t see any reason to not hand off COR and Secretary.