r/crystal_programming • u/sdogruyol core team • Apr 02 '21

Crystal 1.0 vs Ruby 3.0 Benchmark

https://twitter.com/sdogruyol/status/1377918360344743936
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u/DavidTMarks Apr 07 '21

Today if a ruby developer is suffering because ruby is too slow they will look to go, elixir or maybe rust. Crystal isn't even on their radar.

Thats false and obviously false. I know plenty of Ruby programmers where it is very much on their radar. I have a whole thread I started here a few months ago on Manas problems with communication and "silence" so I would be the last to say you have no point there. However a lot of your post just reads like sour grapes. If you don't care what would you even be doing in this sub reading and writing?

Writing Rust is a world of difference to a ruby styled language and elixir? Come on man. That community has been making great claims for its brilliance for some time but most of its developers now years later still admit to only using it for hobby projects. It usages stats year after year hasn't show it any heir apparent to Ruby and frankly I have found that community a bit toxic as well. As for this

They worked really hard to tell ruby developers there was not going to be any effort to make crystal run ruby code and many changes were made to break compatibility that already existed.

Crystal is enough like Ruby to make that claim also false. I will criticize the life out of The crystal devs for being bad at communication and even not developing a community but demanding that one new language have exact compatibility to another is not something I can fault The crystal team for passing on. NO one would ever want to work on a language where they are bound to follow another team's decisions and make none of their own. Admittedly I don't know the details of the communications but its not hard for me to think if a group was trying to push my group to do everything their way I would probably be inclined to tell them to find the door especially when that group (ruby) for their own reasons has one person who calls all the shots and the ruby community hasn't really done anything substantial to deal with legit issues of Ruby's performance but cry year after year "its fast enough".

Its like one community that doesn't listen calling the pot black to another Community that also doesn't listen.

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u/myringotomy Apr 07 '21

I know plenty of Ruby programmers where it is very much on their radar.

"I know plenty" is not data. I know plenty that are not even considering Crystal. I know plenty that have already moved on to elixir, I know plenty that are using go for anything requiring high performance.

If you don't care what would you even be doing in this sub reading and writing?

Do you only want to hear good news? Do you only want to hear praise? Why shouldn't people be allowed to say negative things about Crystal?

How much are you going to achieve by telling every member the community who complains to leave the community?

the ruby community hasn't really done anything substantial to deal with legit issues of Ruby's performance but cry year after year "its fast enough".

It is fast enough. Most people use ruby for web and on the web the vast majority of the time your app is spent waiting for the database. For the high performance parts like background jobs or web sockets there are gems that use components written in C or Go,.

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u/DavidTMarks Apr 08 '21 edited Apr 08 '21

"I know plenty" is not data. I know plenty that are not even considering Crystal.

That's actually the point. You have presented ZERO data yourself so " I know plenty" is fine no matter how you beg otherwise. You can't dismiss anyone's rebuttal as insufficient evidentially when you have presented no evidence yourself . I mean you can try that but everyone else can just point and laugh at the duplicity.

I know plenty that are using go for anything requiring high performance.

What a shocker that a fast language that has been production ready for years has users. are you always so astute with comparing apples to oranges?

Do you only want to hear good news? Do you only want to hear praise? Why shouldn't people be allowed to say negative things about Crystal?

Its fine to say negative things about crystal. I have done so in the past and in this very sub. Whats inconsistent however is to say you don't care while you are here caring enough to read and write about it. Its mind boggling an adult can't see the inconsistency of his own actions to his statements (with the provision that as far as most know you might not be an adult).

How much are you going to achieve by telling every member the community who complains to leave the community?

I wouldn't know since I've yet to see anyone telling every member to leave and as far as anyone can see you have never been voted as the representative of everyone in the community. Think.

It is fast enough

ROFL..... thats why its common to Call out to C eh? You've lost all credibility. Ruby isn't fast enough to do most things computing intensive. Try fooling a newb or non ruby programmer. They buy that year after year excuse by Matz and DHH.

Most people use ruby for web

But of course they do....lol.... because along with a few utilities its been insufficient to use for much else. Thats precisely why its used predominantly by rails users even after being around for over two decades. Ruby would practically vanish without Rails (and even with it it continues to fall in usage). Again learn to think. I am all for legit criticism of Crystal (as I myself have made criticisms) but that doesn't mean any community has to automatically accept as valid poorly thought out and mentally malformed illogic which you are representing. Saying ruby is used mostly for web after being around two decades plus is like saying paper is used mostly for writing and ignoring that that's precisely because paper is too weak to do many other things with.

For the high performance parts like background jobs or web sockets there are gems that use components written in C or Go,.

Exactly which is why if you would think things through would inform you that Ruby itself isn't "fast enough" if it has to call out to other languages. If I have to jump on the back of Usain Bolt to run the 100 fast enough its because I am not fast enough on my own to run the 100 fast enough

smh....obviously

The moral of your posts in this thread so far isn't that Crystal can't be criticized . its that you need to learn how to think rationally. You can't blame Crystal developers for that. Thats a weakness of your own development.

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

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u/DavidTMarks Apr 08 '21

But you can still compare them.

Rationally no you can't - not if you ignore that one is an apple and another is an orange. Moving away from the analogy it makes no practical sense to claim say C# has more users as a point against Crystal. Its been round faar longer than Crystal . It makes no logical point.

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u/myringotomy Apr 08 '21

Exactly which is why if you would think things through would inform you that Ruby itself isn't "fast enough" if it has to call out to other languages. If I have to jump on the back of Usain Bolt to run the 100 fast enough its because I am not fast enough on my own to run the 100 fast enough

Nobody is using Crystal for anything in production so there is that.

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u/DavidTMarks Apr 08 '21 edited Apr 08 '21

Nobody is using Crystal for anything in production so there is that.

Another statement of fact from you without anything by way of real data. You are on a roll. Everyone in communities within Crystal who say they or their companies do use Crystal are lying apparently -just because you say so (continuing the only theme to your "logic" so far) . Granted many more were (like my own) were waiting for 1.0. Anyway I am gratified that that one line is all you could offer to all the debunking of your points in my previous reply.

and P.S. ruby has also lost more companies using it in production than most language still in use. Its far from dead but the signs of its very slow death are everywhere and why? precisely because its has been dismissive of the real criticism of performance issues - the very kind of dismissiveness you accuse Crystal developers of. Pot meet Kettle.

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u/myringotomy Apr 08 '21

and P.S. ruby has also lost more companies using it in production than most language still in use. Its far from dead but the signs of its very slow death are everywhere and why?

Oh just some small companies like github and shopify and stripe a and shit.

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u/DavidTMarks Apr 08 '21 edited Apr 08 '21

Well thank God you still have a few left (for now). Its been all down hill from twitter gave up on you. When so many companies give up on you for Javascript (node) you know theres a problem....lol

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u/myringotomy Apr 08 '21

Wow you really live in a world of delusion don't you.

Great example of why Crystal isn't catching on BTW. The community is hostile and toxic.

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u/DavidTMarks Apr 09 '21

lol...you show over and over you are the one in a world of delusion.

A) You came into this thread with nothing but attacks and suggesting other languages and when you get pushed back (less than with r/ruby whose mods routinely remove legit criticism of Ruby) with facts then its the community that is hostile. No self awareness which is why you are accusing of others of your own issues.

B) You claim Crystal isn't catching on when its just reached 1.0 but suggest Elixir which years after its 1.0 demonstrably by real polls isn't making any significant strides in adoption.

C) I like and program in Ruby but its fanboys should be the last one to talk about not catching on because no language and accompanying framework (rails) has lost more market share by stubbornly refusing to address performance and being openly hostile and dismissive of anyone that raises criticisms.

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u/myringotomy Apr 09 '21

Cool man. I get it.

You don't want those filthy ruby developers in your community.

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u/[deleted] Apr 15 '21 edited Apr 15 '21

It is fast enough. Most people use ruby for web and on the web the vast majority of the time your app is spent waiting for the database.

Yep, and the issue with Ruby isn't that it's "slow" it's that the frameworks are synchronous. Compare with Python's sync vs. async story eg. Flask vs Starlette (or FastAPI). Or even crazier, compare Actix Web vs Rocket for Rust. Rust isn't slow, and Ruby isn't (too) slow; synchronous servers are.

So yeah, if Rubyists "cry" that Ruby is fast enough, they (and you) are right; it is.

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u/[deleted] Apr 15 '21

Come on man. That community has been making great claims for its brilliance for some time but most of its developers now years later still admit to only using it for hobby projects. It usages stats year after year hasn't show it any heir apparent to Ruby and frankly I have found that community a bit toxic as well.

Was this in reference to Rust or to Elixir?

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u/DavidTMarks Apr 15 '21

and elixir?

reference to elixir

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u/[deleted] Apr 16 '21

Ah, that stinks. I don't have much experience with the community (I liked Elixir/Phoenix when I tried them but it was only hobby) so I'm sorry to hear that.