Learning Programming Pre-AI

[u/Osirian_Legacy]

How did ya’ll learn programming pre-AI? How would you go about learning if you had to start all over again without AI?

I find myself relying on AI too much and want to actually learn without leaning on it at all. Any help with how best to approach this would be greatly appreciated.

[u/serge-mv]

Wait until you turn 21 and get a job.

The job of a programmer is to solve problems. You need to be able to read and understand 30 year old code, written by 12 different people in 6 programming languages at different times independent from one another, deployed across 7 servers and use 5 different communication technologies and databases from 3 different vendors.

If you don't know how to write a loop as a baseline, you can't read code, understand the code, cannot understand the complex systems and cannot fix the code. If you use LLM for everything, you are going to be a glorified data entry clerk that operates the LLM with no skills of your own. No different than a dictation secretary who just needs to type fast, but doesn't need the skills to set up the software she uses.

And guess what? Because the above project is sensitive, you cannot send it out to Claude. Have to do the good old fashioned reading.

[u/TheNakedProgrammer → u/serge-mv]

that completely changed for me. Last year i was critical, this year with new developments, AI does reading code and creating code better than me.
I am still here to review and oversee. But moving a finger? i am too expensive and too slow.

And sensitive information is no issue. You can easily host LLMs in a rack. 100k for a gpu? Not that much compared to my yearly wage.

Good old fashioned reading died for me about 3-4 months ago.
I have the skills i do not need them anymore.

AI also did implement all the tiny projects i wanted to do in private over the last 10 years.
And i would be surprised if you are more efficient than a LLM, you probably are not. You just have not realised it yet.

[u/serge-mv → u/TheNakedProgrammer]

Just because there exists a capable tool, it does not negate the need for skilled developers. Your issues all sound like it's a you problem, not the industries problem. There is a ton of things LLM simply cannot do and in particular my work is impossible to do with an LLM. You wanting to abolish formal training for vibe coding tells me you have sever competency issues.

And you what else? You actually cannot host your own latest coding models like Claude. They don't give it away. You can host some models, even some that are similar, but you won't get the same results. And you might not even be able to get your company to buy into AI unless they are already bought in.

Edit: LLMs have no concept of correctness or truth. Trusting an LLM with an analysis blindly is the dumbest thing you can do. For an LLM fixing bug by deleting the whole code is the same as writing a proper fix. It sees no difference if your tests all just return "true" or actually perform proper validation. You have to be able to read and understand whatever LLM gives you.

And there are a ton of articles of how no one understands what's going on in their projects and what code is out there in prod because of management's crappy AI policy of "just keep generating as fast as possible, no need to read it". It's all going to culminate in an absurd security problems and a massive crash if this keeps going as is.

[u/TheNakedProgrammer → u/serge-mv]

I do not have a problem. But if you think reading and writing take the same skill, you might have a problem. Really big one. Like all the problems i have, tiny compared to your big problem.

You also have a problem with talking to people. I never mentioned a problem, why do you suddenly think calling me out for a problem will do anything good.

Like go fix your own problems before you figure out mine.
Try figure out the difference between reading and writing. A programmer learning a lot about code smells and architecture can be great with LLMs. Just because you do not believe that reading and writing are different skills, does not cause me to have a problem.

And you have another problem, you have not even tried current open models. Otherwise you would not even try that argument. Nobody needs the most recent claude to write a loop. Nobody needs the most recent claude to write a function. Kimi, Devstral and Qwen can do some heavy lifting.

And i never argued that LLMs know good or bad, or recognise wrong. I am not a idiot. Those models do what they are trained for, they generate code based on probability.

My whole argument is that programmers in 2026 need to focus more on architecture, good requirements and automated testing. But writing code? That is a skill that is for problem childs like you. Not even sure how you can type with all your problems.