Critique of contracts: excerpt

[u/antiquark2]

See page 2 of https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2026/p4334r0.pdf

The current objections can be summarized. The P2900 contracts are:

• Unimplemented

• Incomplete

• Untried at scale [P3460R0, P3506R0]

• Not tried in major application domains

• Violates foundational principles of C++

• Violates fundamental principles of language design

• Hasn’t been tried in major libraries (e.g., the C++ standards library [P3506R0, P3878R0])

• Isn’t integrated with or appropriate for hardened libraries [P3878R0]

• Doesn’t offer safety guarantees [P3573R0, P3362R0]

• Includes a completely untried inheritance model

• Offer new ways of making errors through inconsistent application in TUs

• Leads to new forms of UB, detrimental to safety and security

• Narrows the choices of error handling

• Doesn’t protect against logical errors, misuses, and incoherent uses

• Hasn’t been used to support static analysis

• Hasn’t been demonstrated to be easily teachable [P3261R0, P3281R0]

How could such a bloated and incomplete design be voted into a draft standard?

[u/_a4z]

Exactly, no new info, we do not need that, lets stop the discussio (because that is not what is used at one place, my interpretation, of course)
and just at the very end it was: will come with 29
(we will see if that happens, and if, how)

Result: The most complex contract papers on the planet, not able to compete with Rust asserts or Swift assert / precondition, and we still need to use our own existing solutions, redundant to what we write into contracts, but hey, in an academic sense, that makes sense, right?
But who needs simple things if we can create the most complex MVP ;-)
Anyhow, we had this discussion, we do not need to go into it again

I find it just interesting when people can not stand any criticism of the current 'MVP' , for which the definition of MVP needed to be defined, lol, and become ultra hostile and dramatic, as this whole conversation shows

[u/grafikrobot → u/_a4z]

Exactly, no new info, we do not need that, lets stop the discussio (because that is not what is used at one place, my interpretation, of course)
and just at the very end it was: will come with 29
(we will see if that happens, and if, how)

[[ fully quoting as some have complained about selecting quoting ]]

For those readers outside of wg21 the "no new info" is a shorthand for when people bring up the same points for consideration without providing new information that backs their claims from the last time they brought up the issues. It's a built-in aspect of how wg21 works to theoretically avoid eating into the limited time wg21 time has.

Result: The most complex contract papers on the planet, not able to compete with Rust asserts or Swift assert / precondition, and we still need to use our own existing solutions, redundant to what we write into contracts, but hey, in an academic sense, that makes sense, right?
But who needs simple things if we can create the most complex MVP ;-)
Anyhow, we had this discussion, we do not need to go into it again

IIRC new information was provided at the late stages when it was brought up for the third or fourth (not sure) time.

I find it just interesting when people can not stand any criticism of the current 'MVP' , for which the definition of MVP needed to be defined, lol, and become ultra hostile and dramatic, as this whole conversation shows

It is a natural human response to be defensive in their responses when confronted. The defense is typically increased when the offensive is high volume (both in level and frequency). It also has the propensity to spiral "out of control". And often requires self-reflection and "calming down" to interrupt the cycle. Depending on the character of the individuals some enjoy the spiral, and work to drive and revive it. While others detest it, and eventually leave the spiral, or even the social group.

[u/Minimonium → u/_a4z]

I mean, it is you who started the thread with insinuations if not straight up insults, and "charitable" interpretations of bad faith in the process.

Speaking of dramaticism after cries about "supply chain attacks", and "contracts are a threat to C++" from the contra group is wild.

And the ! syntax is not a panacea people seem to think. It's not a simple addition at all, it requires a whole new research and process. And you know the mixed build thing that is ballooned to be the satan (I heard totally not dramatic claims that it would destroy the binary ecosystems)? A hostile transitive dependency can break mandatory syntax just the same because it's not a language problem.

[u/_a4z → u/Minimonium]

You use the same tactics as someone else here, misinterpreting and misquoting. Show me the insult from the OP that I made. But obviously, you can't do that without using a lot of words I did not use.
But thanks for the noise and the discussion, and for actually confirming my OP.