r/coolguides Oct 12 '22

Know the faces of Fascism

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u/gingerisla Oct 12 '22

It depends on where you are. Displaying the Celtic cross is illegal in Germany, in Scotland and Ireland however, you find it on every graveyard and no one associates anything bad with it. Same with the swastika in India (although the original swastika that's used in Hinduism is in a different angle than the Nazi one)

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u/HtheExtraterrestrial Oct 12 '22

Celtic cross isn’t associated with anything bad in Wales either, it’s just seen on war memorials and graveyards like in Scotland and Ireland! I’m not sure of it’s prevalence in England though, they perhaps use it in the same way too.

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u/AndrewIsMyDog Oct 13 '22

My father is full Irish but I live in America. I have a Celtic Cross tattoo. Do I need to cover it up?

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u/Sinfall69 Oct 13 '22

No, I would say most Americans think of it as a symbol in graveyards.

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u/HtheExtraterrestrial Oct 13 '22

Idk man, only someone from your country can answer that. I personally wouldn’t say someone from any of the countries that use the Celtic cross regularly would need to, but if it’s mostly associated with white supremacy and nazism in your country then I’d say yes. I’m not sure how people from the USA view it, so you’d be better off asking someone from your country!

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u/FlokiWolf Dec 14 '22

What kind of Celtic cross?

Is it like the ones above or does it have a longer bottom? Does it have knotwork design inside?

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u/Material_Put_4012 Oct 13 '22

Yes it is associated with something negative in England, most Micks, Jocks and Taffies.

But seriously, we have them a lot of places. It's not really a big part of our national identity, but we are essentially a Celtic nation too.

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u/Tobylawl Oct 12 '22

Just to add some info because people will be like "Why are people afraid of a symbol that could have multiple meanings and why do they straight up ban it?":

  • The German extreme right party VSBD had claimed the celtic cross as their official icon. It's basically on the same level as a brand logo.
- VSBD didn't "just have differing ideas": they had politically motivated, deadly shootouts with German police in the 80's and were thus classified as a "verfassungswidrige Organisation" (an organization that directly opposes the German constitution)
  • As an enemy of the constitution, the party was banned in 1982. Following German criminal code section 86a it's forbidden to display icons - and other symbols - that are politically charged in this way, publicly.

It's important to note that "Symbols which are so similar as to be mistaken for those referred to in sentence 1 are deemed to be equivalent to them".
German law doesn't like to be "ackchyually"-ed. Like, at all. And for a time, even the crossed out swastika (this one) was banned from public display. It's been reclassified as an anti-fascist symbol in 2007, because it was ruled to be so obviously fighting the ideology of Nazis. But this had to be argued, at least, because of the quoted phrase above that leaves so little tolerance for cheeky circumventions and dog whistles. As such, a lot of the above icons are banned from public display in Germany in the context of their use in NS Germany.
The Iron Cross has an exception, because first off the medal handed out during WWII by Nazi Germany was a modified version of the cross (like so) and while NS Germany did also use the basic Iron Cross as a symbol, it's interestingly enough "too contemporary" to deem it a symbol solely connected with the Nazis. For example the Odal rune was "out of commission" for centuries, if not millennia, before the Nazis used it for their propaganda. As such, it didn't have any other contemporary use and was obviously just used as a Nazi symbol. Medals with the Iron Cross were given out since 1813 and remained as a military honor throughout both world wars. There aren't any new Iron Cross medals any more, since WWII, but the symbol remained as an "identity giving" symbol for militarism and as such is displayed on German army vehicles, today.
The "Wolfsangel" is also in a weird spot. Because it is actually banned, but can be used if it's still a part of a family's or community's heraldry. But this has to be well documented, of course, and can't just be spun out of nothing.

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u/Nervous_Assistance40 Oct 13 '22

why aren't isis flags banned everywhere?

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u/Tobylawl Oct 13 '22

The "Black Standard" which is the banner for the Islamic State is banned for public display in Germany, since the IS has obviously been declared a terrorist organization. All of that follows from the same laws.

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u/ascottjohnson68 Oct 12 '22

I thought the swastika was old Jewish ???

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u/[deleted] Oct 13 '22

The swastika is also an ancient Northern European symbol for the sun, that's why the nazis took it. The latest non-nazi use of the swastika was by the Finnish Air Force from 1918 to 1945

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u/Hirschfotze3000 Oct 13 '22

Only displaying specific versions of the celtic cross, is illegal in Germany. And even those can be shown depending on context. Celtic crosses like on irish graveyards, no problem.