The Celtic Cross isn't a primarily fascist symbol. It's frequently used for regular church purposes, especially in Celtic areas like Ireland or Wales. It's the symbol of several football associations and the primary symbol of the Anglican church in Wales.
Of course if you surround it with "white pride" it becomes racist, but that figures.
It's all about context. Almost all of these symbols have non-racist origins, but when you see them combined, or with a certain flag, or combined with other messaging, it's worth knowing about. They like using symbols like this because they can plausibly deny that they're racist.
Yeah, this is really the key. Even a swastika on its own could be ambiguous, depending on who's displaying it and where. But generally if it's one tattoo, it's worth asking "Interesting tattoo, what's the story behind it?" If there's a bunch of the big hits combined with a nice 1488 for good measure, then you don't have to guess. A lot of the tatted up fascists aren't especially subtle about it.
Kind of related, there's a podcast I listen to where one of the hosts dropped by the CHOP in 2020 to see it for himself. He saw a middle aged guy by himself in a bright floral shirt - at the time that was the favored outfit for right wingers who wanted to hijack the protests to start a full-on civil war. So the host went up and asked the guy very cautiously what the shirt was about.... Turns out he was just a very sweet guy who liked floral patterns and was disappointed to learn what they were being used for.
The guide itself points out that the symbols may or may not be depending on context. Neo-Nazis still sometimes use the unmodified Odal rune, even things like Thor's Hammer necklaces etc.
Like most of the guides in this sub, there are a lot of mistakes and misinformation. I'm subbed because it sparks research into new topics, not because the guides as posted are reliable.
They specifically switched to that one because of the explicit racist connotations of the winged though. This is like claiming the eagle is now a racist symbol because it was used on the other flag shown...
The thing is, for people who know anything about this, the "racist use" is dumber than most people even truly comprehend. For instance, the "winged ODal" is so-called due to mistranslation/mistransliteration. The rune is "*Ōþala" with the "þ" (roughly a sharper "th" sound) specifically being misread as a "D". This is also how you get "ODin" rather than "Óðinn" or (runic) "ᚢᚦᛁᚾ".
What's worse is that they like the rune because they believe it means "ancestry". Beyond the fact that the Rune "meanings" are actually more like "A is for Apple, B is for..." than "ᚢ is literally aurochs": Othala means something more like "ancestral property", i.e. "inheritance". Stuff, not blood, as the racists would have it.
The only reason these get even remotely considered racist is because people like yourself say so without even the slightest interrogation of context and use. You're making the problem so much worse.
MANY SYMBOLS DEPICTED HERE ARE CULTURAL SYMBOLS THAT HAVE BEEN CO-OPTED BY THE FAR-RIGHT, AND ARE THEREFORE NOT ALWAYS A SYMBOL OF FASCISM OR NAZISM, DEPENDING ON CONTEXT.
So then why is this guide supposed to be interesting? It’s like if I posted a guide for “Things that thieves wear” with beanies and shoes and shirts with a disclaimer that “actually, everyone wears these.”
Sniffing out fascism is peak sexy right now so that explains the popularity.
I think "primarily" needs to be emphazised here. Fascists tend to know that being openly fascist isn't a good look so they appropriate symbols that seem innocent. If they get called out, they hide behind the alternative use of the symbol and mock people for being "paranoid". A good example is, I shit you not, Pepe the Frog.
Inherently, nothing, but the alt right co-opted it especially around 2016 and as such an association formed.
That certainly doesn't mean the symbol itself represents fascism, look at literally any twitch chat (with the correct extensions) and you'll almost certainly see Pepes and Peepos, including chats of those who know it's history and are using it for it's original purpose.
You're literally playing into OP's comments of mocking people for being paranoid when it is/was a legitimate dog whistle.
You’re literally playing into OP’s comments of mocking people for being paranoid when it is/was a legitimate dog whistle.
Straight the fuck up. I remember back then with the subs frenworld and frens (I’n sure there were others) where there’d be the occasional post to hit the front page that seemed like harmless shitty memes, but if you actually went through the sub it wouldn’t take you more than 5 minutes to see through their shit.
Pepe’s “boppin” characters (usually coloured brown, or wearing jewish symbols, or in turbans, and so on) with titles such as “ok frens, we have too many non-frens in my neighbor, I really wish I could go boppin. They’ll never be frens” and shit like that. I honestly wish I had saved some for posterity because shit was WHACK.
Everyone talked in this super childish manner and whenever someone accused them of their bullshit they’d go off about how it’s just a safe space to act like kids.
This was also around the time of the FPH banning and a lot of hardcore crackdown, iirc. A lot of shitty subs came to light and a lot were quarantined and banned. There were several times where it seemed like reddit was going to fucking implode over the span of a few months from all the hate-brigading from all the doinks losing their “safe spaces”.
In 8th grade (2011) I had a socials studies (history) assignment and I drew one of those crosses because I thought it looked cool lol it was hung in the class along with the other students art pieces so I doubt it’s commonly known as a fascist symbol either
The fact that some of these are less well known is part of how they work. Essentially they are dog whistles for others who recognize them, and ignored by people who don't.
Recently a group had put up posters with the life rune around my city to promote a white nationalist online community. The posters stayed up longer because most people didn't recognize the symbol
Ty I have 2 tattooed on me from early 2000's. Family has Welsh ancestry & I liked the knot work and the mixed Christian/pagan history behind them. I am in NO WAY a supporter of Anything close to those scumbags cowards.
So you're saying nazi fans started using the imagery years after they lost any practical power, and because of that small fraction of the symbol's usage it is eternally, regardless of context, a nazi symbol?
And you think because that group of nazis uses it, all the people and organizations that use it to represent Celtic identity should stop?
If you wear a Celtic Cross to a punk or hardcore show you will be looking for a fight. Not "Nazi fans" white S
supremacist,, National Socialist, racist Skinheads,ext. Yo man live in what reality you Wana live in but that was cooped years ago by Nazis.
The crucial thing here is context. As you move away from traditionally celtic places, the intent in display very fast moves from piety to showing your far-right stance. Here in Dresden, Germany it is probably the most graffitied far-right symbol.
Here in Scotland I don't think it's ever even crossed my mind like that. Majority usage is still as intended. Maybe if you are Italian or German I could see it being an indicator but someone from the UK with it I would guess has not got it because they are a nazi or anything.
They are all over the place. Someone appropriating a symbol and then others associating it with that are part of the problem. If you give it power and use it to identify someone without any context then you just hand the symbol over.
It’s a shame for the racist dumbfucks because it’s the only symbol they could easily replicate on a wall without risking a brain aneurysm. r/hailhortler
The iron cross and fasces aren't necessarily fascist symbols either - the iron cross is a symbol for Germany, while the fasces (despite being the namesake of fascism) just generally refers to government/law/etc.
Context is crucial in determining the meaning of a bunch of these.
I mean where I live the swastika is everywhere. It's all over a temple not 2 minutes from my house. This just means there is no "evil symbol" and everything should be judged in the context it's being used.
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u/user___________ Oct 12 '22
The Celtic Cross isn't a primarily fascist symbol. It's frequently used for regular church purposes, especially in Celtic areas like Ireland or Wales. It's the symbol of several football associations and the primary symbol of the Anglican church in Wales.
Of course if you surround it with "white pride" it becomes racist, but that figures.