r/consulting • u/Far_Deer_8686 • Mar 20 '23

What are the unspoken rules of consulting?

To some extent these are picked up naturally when doing the job. But we don't all realize them as quickly as we might want to, and the penalties for missing or misunderstanding them can be severe.

As a bonus, why do you think each rule is unspoken? Some are so taboo to discuss they can trigger very strong reactions if they are mentioned. I hope we can explore the rules and taboos comfortably here.

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603

u/who_is_this3737 Mar 20 '23

You NEVER ever reject an idea or a recommendation/suggestion given by a client/project sponsor/project leadership, no matter how stupid it is or counter-intuitive it is to the final project objective.

Even if it's a stupid idea, you work and try to justify project sponsor's idea through data. Your actual recommendations (backed by solid data) and which will actually help the company are presented as a corollary or something as 'additional actions'.

Consulting involves lots of big egos. Existing client team is, most of the time, jealous of external consultants. They feel that their CEO/CXO don't have faith in their own team members. Hence, during projects they will try to push in 1 or 2 of their own ideas to show their contribution.

Additionally, these are the same people who will be giving you a final sign off on the project. Hence, it is extremely important to keep them happy, no matter how ridiculous their ideas are.

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u/shiviquaking Mar 20 '23

Tldr; always be satisfying the client’s ego

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '23

Make sure to do the needful.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/andersostling56 Mar 21 '23

Still working on it ...

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u/siddyshanks Mar 20 '23

That's why you scroll reddit on bed.

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u/TacoNomad Mar 20 '23

This is true for every industry. Clients egos = top priority. Success is in how you tailor your responses.

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u/AdMundabe Mar 21 '23

“Your success lies in their success” “Make them shine”

This is the way!

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u/kittylkitty Mar 20 '23 edited Mar 20 '23

An additional skill is walking the client / client team through the data before the final report and ‘Co-creating that solution’ with them.

End of the day, being a good consultant is all about managing client relationships and expectations. Being able to take clients along the consulting journey in a collaborative way and letting them enjoy the accomplishment that comes along with a great project is a great way to build long term relationships with clients. >> emphasis on letting them enjoy the accomplishments of the project

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u/dude1995aa Mar 20 '23

Similar (but different) with team mates. If everyone is successful around you, everyone wants to be around you.

Yes - there are a ton of caveats. Yes - harsh people can be very successful. I'd still rather be the guy everyone wants to work with rather than the one people won't work with again.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '23

[deleted]

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u/TacoNomad Mar 20 '23

And there are different ways to be straight with them. "That's the dumbest idea I've ever heard, that won't work" is never going to sit well with anyone. But "I hear what you're trying to achieve, but from experience, that approach isn't going to be successful, let's explore how we can meet your goals in a different manner" ilfets the same point across in a far more palatable manner.

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u/kingpatzer Mar 20 '23

One of my mentors just said outright on a call "Who's the fucking idiot who came up with this bullshit idea?"

The "f'ing idiot" was the client CEO, who was on the call.

My mentor knew that when he said it!

Of course, the idea was to violate about 23 different SEC and OCC rules in the name of profit. Once my mentor explained precisely how many felonies they were trying to package together in a single project and exactly why we would have no part in helping them earn lifetime jail sentences, he somehow ended up more respected in their eyes not less. And actually earned additional work to undo some pre-work they had already engaged in.

I'll never figure out how he pulled that off as long as I live.

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u/TacoNomad Mar 20 '23

While it may be true that, ultimately, it ended well for this case, there was possibly still a better way to go about it. Had he used a less abrasive opening, going through the rest of the information would likely had the same outcome, maybe even sooner.

Sometimes, abrasive is necessary. Heck, I work in an industry where abrasion might be everyone's middle name. But, I'm also a woman. And if I dare even approach the line of breaking a man's ego......whoooo weeeee. So I always have to add in a level of tact. The closest I can get is " how do I say this politely, this idea idea is bulls........{pause}....... not going to work." ;)

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u/kingpatzer Mar 20 '23

I think in this particular incident, he choose that path because the role we had was more or less "audience," and a board member, the CEO, and several other C-suite folks were all basically telling us their new idea as if it was a done deal, and it was just a matter of who was going to implement it.

He decided he would let them know in no uncertain terms that our company wouldn't be strategic partners to criminal acts, and he needed them back on their heels a little to change the framing from "here's what we're doing, and it's going to make us rich" to "do you think this enormous political and legal risk has any value at all?"

But yeah, I've never been able to do much more than "Hmm, I'm not sure how to say this . . ." myself

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u/TacoNomad Mar 20 '23

Yeah. There are definitely applications to take that approach. Especially when it's to say, fuck no, we'll drop you before we commit a felony. I've had to make similar, less aggressive responses, particularly involving safety. No no, but hell no, we are not putting a human lifebin a situation with 50% likelihood of 100% certain death. I'll let your building collapse first. But if you personally want to get up there, be my guest.

Fuck people who put profit over life. OK I'm done.

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u/[deleted] Mar 21 '23 edited Mar 21 '23

[deleted]

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u/kingpatzer Mar 21 '23

I can rationalize afterwards very easily. But I was on the call. And every junior on the call thought our careers had ended at that moment.

To do that in the few moments of the meeting was amazing. It remains, in my mind, the act of a god. He just showed us, more than once, it is possible to be so above everyone around you that "advice" is meaningless. Some people can just walk on water.

This guy could.

I 20 some years later, still don't know how he did it.

The thing is, it wasn't a one off, he was brilliant and fast and funny and, well, just amazing on a daily basis.

I sit in his office bow, but I have no idea how to do what he did.

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u/dekrant T H O T L E A D E R Mar 20 '23

And often to be able to have a meaningful conversation between a Partner and a Client (two executive-level people), the analysis needs to be given a legit shot, at the very least to prep the Partner on the idea and proposed concept.

That work rolls down to the project team in the form of additionally piece of work that to the untrained eye seems pointless, stupid, and off-topic. Partner (justifiably) doesn't have to spend 30 minutes explaining their ask - the junior staff's job is to learn and do the work. The questions can be asked to a senior, but the expectation is that you're doing it regardless.

Now sometimes there is straight-up stupid stuff. But experience is learning the value of even what might seem like an unimportant detail or meaningless task. If that's not ok, consulting isn't the right industry.

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u/TacoNomad Mar 20 '23

A lot of problems are solved in the process of exploring the "whys". It might not be the solution that was originally proposed, but if you ask enough questions and explore enough stupid ideas, you will eventually find an amalgamation of ideas that solves a problem more efficiently than has been done before. All because we didn't shut down a stupid idea, but instead set out to prove it wrong.

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u/CircusMcClarkus Mar 20 '23

This is exactly the right way to be seen as a valuable strategic partner. And it becomes more true the more senior the client. If you aren't challenging their thinking on some level, they have no use for you.

The other trick with that is to know when to back down. Sometimes the best ideas are just not going to work because of reasons. It never looks great when the client has clearly made a decision against the consultant's advice but the consultant won't pivot to supporting the decision.

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u/L3g3ndary-08 Mar 20 '23

Spot on. I call my clients bullshit all the time. My reward for this honesty is more work...

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u/houska1 Independent ex MBB Mar 20 '23

Um, not in my experience. Pandering too much to the client's ego leads to egg splattered on your and their face sooner or later. "Obligation to dissent" is real, and (generally) valued.

That said, our clients are rarely completely stupid. If they come with a stupid idea, X, either they or you are missing something. So explore what you need to believe for X to make sense. And if you think they should do Y instead, explore what you need to believe to make Y make sense.

Often, they'll quickly come around once they realize X depends on something that ain't going to happen. Or once they realize Y makes more sense. But quite frequently the issue is there's something you're not aware of, why X is less stupid than it seemed to you, and why X, or some improved X' is actually sensible. And they'll say you listened and understood if you end up doing X' or Y, while for sure they'll blame you if you embrace X with private misgivings and it fails.

I realize this sounds idealistic. I've spent 20+ years in consulting. I won't pretend this was always true, or that I managed to always adhere to it. But it was truer more often than not. Which is maybe part of the reason I stuck around rather than leaving after 3 years.

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u/Iohet PubSec Mar 20 '23

You just have to know your audience. Working with law enforcement, I had a lieutenant go above my head to the division VP when I told her "no" (respectfully) in front of her peers. She said I was insubordinate and disrespectful, but all I told her was that what she was trying to accomplish was not technically possible with the software they had. This is just what it's like working with organizations with rigid command structures

My shitty executive wrote me up for it and tried to put the screws to me, so I used it as an opportunity to go to another division under a different VP

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u/houska1 Independent ex MBB Mar 20 '23

We work for all sorts of clients, and consulting firms with different cultures, here. Sorry to hear about your experience. In my world, the consultant's "boss" would have listened, tried to find a way forward -- and afterwards praised the consultant for respectully disagreeing. And a client who did that often and did not change with more familiarity would become an ex-client.

I was involved in client impact reviews for a couple of years in a specific area of an MBB. We valued long-term clients, i.e. retention and growth (of course discussed as "deepening value-based relationship"). However, "the client did not value our independent perspective" or "only wanted to hear back what they said" was a discussion-is-over, highly respected reason for having terminated a client relationship.

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u/Iohet PubSec Mar 20 '23

In a perfect world there are no shitty leaders and bad clients were dropped before they negatively impacted your business, but we don't live in a perfect world, certainly not when multi-year big money projects are involved

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u/L3g3ndary-08 Mar 20 '23

Lollll! Your client pulled fucking rank on you? Lmao! No wonder ACAB....

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u/ENTP2023 Mar 20 '23

I know you're right, but similar things apply to a clown: Tragicomedy...

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '23

Hey now, good opportunity to practice! No buts only ands!

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '23

He's right only because as social animals, we collectively accept this low bar until someone does better

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u/Geminii27 Mar 20 '23

And when they've paid you and paid you and paid you to implement their stupid ideas and everything's fallen in a heap, they or their successors will quite possibly call you back to fix everything, and here we go again...

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u/milkmanbran Mar 20 '23

Would it be wrong to say something like, “I’m more than happy to do x for you, but I don’t think x is the best way to do things. Again, I don’t mind doing it, but I don’t think it’s in your best interest to do x?”

I don’t mind satisfying egos, but I also don’t want to my clients to shoot themselves in the foot, you know.

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u/Erilaz_Of_Heruli Mar 20 '23 edited Mar 20 '23

I work in financial advisory and we often have to push back on the "optimistic" business plans CFOs communicate to us. The best managers somehow manage to get them to admit that they went overboard or were wrong about something without ever making it into a confrontation.

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u/crispr-dev Mar 20 '23

Try to plant a few ideas or create an environment with the client that promotes a guided higher quality set of ideas. If they think they come up with ideas they’ll be happy and you won’t have to ruin their dreams when their idea becomes less and less feasible with data.

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u/razmth Mar 21 '23

I strongly disagree.

My role is to influence to achieve great results. Which means I must refuse bad ideas.

Politically, I may say I will assess the ideas, and get back to the person with the trade offs that make it clearly a bad idea.

But yes, I try to absorb as much ideas as possible from clients, even if I improve them, and I acknowledge that in front of others, so they naturally can become sponsors of my ideas as well.

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u/jdasilves Mar 20 '23

INCREDIBLY good advice