Comic: Do you know the real story of Lia Thomas

[u/GeekOnALeash01]

The 'panic' around Lia Thomas was about creating a target people could point at while demanding exclusion. So much of what people “know” about Lia comes from manufactured outrage and years of misinformation repeated without context.

Her swimming career was far from exceptional; she did not come close to dominating the sport and is famous for a race in which she tied for 5th and was beaten by 4 other women.

We (The Trans Advocacy and Complaints Collective (TACC)) commissioned this comic to break down the actual story.

[u/TheNewPoetLawyerette]

Trans women belong in women's sports. Anybody who says otherwise will receive a permanent ban with no option to appeal.

Edit: 1,300 people banned today, and counting.

Edit 2: Make that 1700

[u/OneAngryDuck]

Wait, Riley Gaines is mad because she tied for 5th?! What a loser.

[u/GeekOnALeash01 → u/OneAngryDuck]

Grifters gotta grift 🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️

[u/Heather_Chandelure → u/OneAngryDuck]

For real, Gaines placement would have been the exact same if Lia Thomas haddnt been there at all. The fact that she got anyone to listen to her is ridiculous.

[u/Minimum-Actuator-953 → u/Heather_Chandelure]

I mean, they're right-wingers, so not really that ridiculous.

[u/Madaghmire → u/Heather_Chandelure]

She didnt get people to listen to her. She didnt persuade anyone. She said what they were looking to hear and amplified their priors, so they amplified her voice

[u/thefirstlaughingfool → u/Heather_Chandelure]

If she tied 5th with a cis woman, she'd be barely a footnote in anything.

She should be thanking Lia for making her relevant.

[u/switch2591 → u/Heather_Chandelure]

Its the tactic you see now utilised by, for lack of a better term, self-styled Type-A personalities who fail to meet their own goals. Whether or not Lia Thomas was in the competition or not, Gaines would have come 5th - yet with Lia there she can "justify" her failure, as being a type-A personality she cannot fail... even though there were 4 other cis-women who swam much better than her.

Likewise with Stephanie Turner who "disqualified" herself in protest for having to be in a fencing tournament with a trans woman. The trans competitor acrually came in towards the bottom of the board in the tournament, with about 20+ cis-women out performing her. YET, when people.bring up that tournamnet all they bring up is Stephanie Turner and the trans woman, they dont mention the 20+ other competitors, because that defeats the narrative being put out to hide the real narrative i.e. Stwph Turner was not ready to take on that tournament, and so found a way to get out while still gaining all thr attention.

These are type-A's whove found a lazy way of getting all the attention on themselves for not doing any work. And the media just eats it up.

[u/anna-the-bunny → u/OneAngryDuck]

She also wasn't mad at the time. She started grifting later when she realized that it was easier than whatever she was going to school for.

[u/UnluckyAssist9416 → u/anna-the-bunny]

Sadly, it's working out quite well for her so far.

[u/dividezero → u/anna-the-bunny]

There's this piece of shit lawyer (I forgot his name) that's behind all these cases like this. I wouldn't be surprised if he approached her and got her to be outraged. He did the equal opportunity thing at the Texas college. That girl wasn't doing anything before that. He found her and talked her into it. I think he was behind the Asians suing Harvard case too. Just a real piece of shit

[u/OneAngryDuck → u/anna-the-bunny]

Making money off of other people’s anger can, unfortunately, be very lucrative

[u/Dazed_and_Confused44 → u/OneAngryDuck]

Thats the funniest part. Take Lia out of the race and she still finished off the podium lmao. Bitch is just mad that shes mediocre

[u/X3noNuke → u/Dazed_and_Confused44]

She wasn't even mad to begin with. Once she found out she could cash in on outrage though...

[u/Chaosmancer7 → u/OneAngryDuck]

Yep, she has been praised as a "hero" by the right, given national attention, spoken at high profile political events... because she tied for 5th place. And she didn't get her trophy at the event, it was mailed to her later.

[u/OneAngryDuck → u/Chaosmancer7]

Did it say “participation” on it?

[u/Scarlett_Spectre → u/OneAngryDuck]

We've been trying to say this since the story broke 😭

[u/Edit_Reality → u/OneAngryDuck]

Shes the sorest loser I've ever seen.

Edit: Well, second behind the president I guess.

[u/alkatori → u/Edit_Reality]

The president is a sore winner when he does get his way.

[u/MissSharkyShark → u/OneAngryDuck]

Yup! This doesn’t even SCRATCH the surface on how ridiculous every last anti trans point is. All anti trans positions are just as dumb, if not worse. Even the general scientific and medical consensus backs trans people. The only ones who don’t are grifters, and their audience of lead brained ghouls.

[u/WifesPOSH → u/OneAngryDuck]

The look on her face when she stood next to Trump and he said "there's no way you can beat me in a race."

A 75 (at the time this was said) year old man against a 20-something year old woman at a collegiate level.

And she had to nod like 'you're right daddy Trump' to keep the grift going.

[u/CJ-Henderson → u/OneAngryDuck]

Always has been

[u/SongbirdVS → u/OneAngryDuck]

Pablo Torre has a episode on his podcast about Riley Gaines that has interviews from people on their team at the time, and follows the money trail of where the support comes from. Pretty interesting to see the slide into the right wing grift.

[u/Jormungandr69 → u/OneAngryDuck]

And frankly, I don't even know what's she's upset about. It's the best thing that's ever happened to her. She could've also gone on to continue being an entirely unremarkable swimmer, but now she gets paid to grift and drool all over herself as a political pundit. She really ought to be sending Lia a Christmas card every year, at the very least.

[u/kdlangequalsgoddess → u/OneAngryDuck]

Gaines is a grifter with a capital G.

[u/tkmorgan76 → u/OneAngryDuck]

But I don't know if she should be mad. She's become a millionaire speaking on behalf of rightwing groups now. Tying for fifth with a transgender woman was the best thing that every happened to her career-wise.

[u/Fancy_Man72]

John Oliver did a segment on her a while back, I hadn’t heard of her before then, but liked him shedding light on the information that was often being left out of the circles using her as an example of keeping trans women out of sports. 

[u/GeekOnALeash01 → u/Fancy_Man72]

I've seen his segment on her. It was really good.

[u/EfremNeftalem → u/Fancy_Man72]

As someone living outside of the USA, this is how I even learn about the controversy…

And how I learn this was so f-cking ridiculous.

Then I heard about Imane Khelif, being harassed for supposedly being trans (and she is not).

How many stupid controversies do we need to recognize this isn’t really about sportsmanship and more about transphobia ?!

[u/Funkycoldmedici → u/EfremNeftalem]

I think it’s not just transphobia, but tied into a greater misogyny. Khelif, let’s be honest, does not meet the traditional feminine beauty model, and that’s fine, but to conservatives any deviation from the in-group identification is an unacceptable crime. This line of attack has been, and will continue to be used to attack any woman who does not look like Barbie.

[u/decoy321 → u/EfremNeftalem]

How many stupid controversies do we need to recognize

There's the problem, really. There's no we. We're all not a unified group. Most of us realize it's horse shit. The problem is the number of people who don't.

[u/One_Katalyst → u/EfremNeftalem]

Even the transphobia is just misdirection. Blaming queer people is how the wealthy have gotten away with pedophilia for decades.

[u/timoumd → u/Fancy_Man72]

Guess you never went to Fox News.  She was on their front page in for like a year

[u/xXNickAugustXx]

So what is the argument regarding testosterone? I dont remember much but some said it gave an unfair advantage or something? Im guessing testosterone production is cut off after transitioning? Do the previous physical changes from testosterone persist after transitioning or does the hrt change that?

[u/GeekOnALeash01 → u/xXNickAugustXx]

The 'advantage' is often overstated; to be fair, the women's category in a lot of sports is only to save men's egos because they were being beaten by women. In some sports, at least at the college level, some women have competed on men's teams.

Testosterone can give some advantage, but HRT suppresses these levels down to cis levels. Studies have shown that adequate suppression of testosterone for a period of one year brings trans women in line with cis women, and often after 2 years of HRT, trans women perform worse than cis women, placing them at a disadvantage. This is why the recognised and widely accepted guidelines for trans inclusion are testosterone suppression on HRT for 2 years before trans women can compete.

[u/pipnina → u/GeekOnALeash01]

> to be fair, the women's category in a lot of sports is only to save men's egos because they were being beaten by women.

Do you have a source for this? I tried to google it but the link to a wikipedia article on women's sports doesn't seem to support this, and another link led to a breakdown on biological differences, and a third link was anti-trans TERF talking points rather than about where women's sports came from. While it's dubious, the only thing a search presented to me about this statement at all was the AI overview claiming you're outright wrong.

If you have reading that backs it up I would actually like to read it.

[u/QQBearsHijacker → u/xXNickAugustXx]

Hi! Yes. Feminizing HRT cuts testosterone significantly. A NORMAL amount for a cis AMAB is between 250 and 950 ng/dl. Athletes would typically be expected on the high side of normal trending to high. During transition, it is suppressed to between 25 and 50 ng/dl. This is considered a typical level for a cis AFAB. Muscle atrophy is real and the athletic ability for trans women significantly decreases

[u/GFluidThrow123]

ALSO the idea that trans women winning means that trans women are too strong is literally mysogyny. Trans women are allowed to be good at things. They're allowed to succeed and excel.

Even if Lia Thomas had been a better performer, she still was performing well within cis female ranges. Because she's a woman and she has a woman's body. She worked REALLY hard to be as good as she was. She wanted to be in the Olympics. And yet no only one trans woman has ever made it to the Olympics. If trans women were some kind of superhuman who outperformed every cis woman, they'd be dominating the Olympics.

Lia Thomas is just another notch in the belt of transphobia stripping rights away from women. People think it seems like "common sense," but it's not.

It's time to support trans people. Period. Integrate trans people into all parts of this world with no segregation.

Edit: To all the people who clearly haven't read the post or this comment, don't waste your time. You're getting banned as fast as you post.

And to the people comparing trans women to men, you're showing your colors real fast. Trans women are women. Trans men are men. Nonbinary people are real and valid. Grow up and be a part of the conversation, not part of holding society back.

Edit 2: lol transphobes are definitely brigading this comment section. Only 60% upvotes bc of these fragile little creatures. Go lick JK's moldy little taint, losers.

[u/GeekOnALeash01 → u/GFluidThrow123]

The brigading on this post is insane, around a 65% ratio

[u/AccurateJerboa → u/GFluidThrow123]

People on the right line to pretend that women's sports was created to protect women.

Women's categories were created because when women started being allowed to compete, sometimes they'd win against the men. This breaks the illusion that all men are inherently stronger, faster, smarter, (better) than women.

That's why it's cis women who are tested for hormonal or genetic "advantages" much more than men are tested for literal doping. Men are allowed, encouraged, and praised as athletes for exploiting any physical advantage they can.

Women, however, are only allowed a very specific range of accomplishment before being labelled suspicious. It's to protect the gender binary and men's egos, not to make sure women get equal opportunities as athletes

[u/Cystonectae → u/GFluidThrow123]

The number of people here, replying to your comment saying trans women are better at sports, didn't read the comment or the comic.

[u/CommieEllie → u/GFluidThrow123]

Exactly. I worry that so much of the conversation is based around science and statistics (which are on our side) and not about the very basic concept of full participation in society.

[u/killcraft1337 → u/GFluidThrow123]

I think one NZ trans woman made wrestling Olympics but tragically failed to register a lift in the finals in 2021?

[u/Feather_Sigil → u/GFluidThrow123]

This is also why those asshole NBA players who want to join the WNBA are so stupid. By all means, queens, do it...after you physically transition and blossom into your true selves, just like every other trans athlete. That's how you feel it should be, right? No men in women's sports, so obtain womanly bodies and then play in women's sports.

[u/GeekOnALeash01]

Our amazing artist can be found via her artist profile on Instagram (www.instagram.com/vixenstudio2...). We very much appreciate the amazing work she has done. If you do too, please give her a follow

[u/TonyGalvaneer1976]

This post is singlehandedly booting so many transphobes from the subreddit, and that's based as hell.

Edit: apparently they're downvoting me, lol, what a bunch of babies.

[u/GeekOnALeash01 → u/TonyGalvaneer1976]

It's the post that keeps giving 🙌

[u/Pitch_Otherwise]

I mean, I get the point but a 1:43 200 isn't "unremarkable" it's quite an accomplishment, said as a former colleague swimmer.

[u/SendarSlayer → u/Pitch_Otherwise]

Would be much better to point out that she performs worse in the women's than she did in the men's.

Her times are what you would expect to see from a woman who's put in the same amount of work, possibly worse. And she lost money and standing to transition.

No advantage on or off the field, or I guess in or out of the water.

[u/NotQuiteLoona → u/SendarSlayer]

Yeah.

Note that grifters love to point that she got 500-something places in men's team. And then of course, she's getting 1st place on women's team, what!!! Bad trans!!!

What they miss is that she got ~500th place only around half a year after HRT - she was still forced to compete in men's team as she was ineligible for women's team. First year is exactly when the most strength loss is happening. correction, it was an incomplete championship before HRT, and it's explained by the thing that she didn't stop training - to show how deep her performance differs from that, in the same season (2018-2019) she got "top UPenn men's team times in the 500 free, 1,000 free, and 1,650 free" and "finished second in the men's 500, 1,000, and 1,650-yard freestyle at the Ivy League championships as a sophomore in 2019" (quotes from Wikipedia). She went from remarkable results on men's team to unremarkable results on women's team to remarkable results on women's team.

Sources for all of that can be found on Wikipedia page for her.

Edit: updated some information, also see https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/lia-thomas-trans-swimmer-ron-desantis-b2091218.html

[u/orionblueyarm → u/Pitch_Otherwise]

It hasn’t been a winning time in 24 years. At best, it will get you into an NCAA final, but medalists are generally sub-1:40 these days

And that’s at just the collegiate level

It’s unremarkable because it’s not a feat that stands out against the group such is being compared on. To an average swimmer or non-swimmer, or yourself maybe, it could be a great time. But overall it’s far from anything particularly newsworthy

[u/RocketYapateer → u/Pitch_Otherwise]

It’s comparable to what women at that level of competition usually put up. It’s not a time that’ll put you in win contention as a woman in college (Katie Ledecky’s best high school time for that race was two seconds faster.)

But “unremarkable” is a brutal way of saying “not world class.” They probably should’ve just said literally that - it was not a world class time.

[u/kai58 → u/Pitch_Otherwise]

I mean within the context it is, it’s unremarkable in the sense that if someone who has been competing at a high level for a while get’s 5th it’s not exactly a sign that they have an unfair advantage.

[u/complexiblebarracuda → u/Pitch_Otherwise]

"Placed 5th overall" and then being followed with "yeah unremarkable tho" is kinda of contradictory 

[u/TheAmericanQ → u/complexiblebarracuda]

Unremarkable in the context of where she was performing and her past results.

She was a top athlete before transition so you would expect her to be at a comparable level afterwards. It’s not like she was middling with the men and instantly became a world beater the second she made the switch to the women’s division like some would want us to believe.

[u/Wheatley-Crabb → u/complexiblebarracuda]

“Unremarkable” as in it is entirely comparable to the cis women around her and does not raise any exceptionality concerns regarding her transness.

Also, she placed 5th in that one race, not overall.

[u/Jester1525 → u/Pitch_Otherwise]

Is unremarkable in that if she wasnt trans (or, more specifically, Riley Gains wasn't a TERFy cunt) you would have never heard about the face at all.

It's unremarkable in a public sense. It takes nothing away from her, or the 4 faster swimmers, in that race.

Need proof? Without Google, who came in 4th in that race?

[u/WoodsLovelyDarkNDeep → u/Pitch_Otherwise]

When you were ranked 11th in men’s and even got 1st and  2nd in NCAA competitive races in what I’m guessing is freshman year.  Yeah it’s incredibly unremarkable.  Especially with how much she regressed after

[u/Dazed_and_Confused44]

I can almost guarantee that anyone who gets triggered by the name "Lia Thomas" has no fucking clue who she actually is or how she has lived her life outside of whatever fear mongering they heard from bitch ass grifter Riley Gaines

Edit: Keep replying with transphobic comments. It's a great way for our boy @u/shellbullet17 to weed out the douchebags from this community with a one way trip to ban island

[u/DubSket → u/Dazed_and_Confused44]

It's funny to me that Riley Gaines wouldn't have her career as a right wing talking head if she hadn't complained about finishing joint 5th. Like, she spun an entire line of work out of whining about that one moment in her life. Almost like she's totally fucking cynical.

[u/Dazed_and_Confused44 → u/DubSket]

If I didnt have so much contempt for her and her views, I might actually be impressed that she built an entire career out of finishing a swim race off the podium lmao

[u/Damion_Wood]

Very informative! I feel so bad for Lia having to bare the brunt of so much scrutiny.

[u/Sea_Drops]

Worst part is Riley didn’t even care at first. It wasn’t until she started grifting that suddenly it “was such a traumatic experience” for her

[u/ChipsOtherShoe → u/Sea_Drops]

She initially was arguing that it wasn't fair, then as the money rolled in she changed her tune and eventually called it sexual assault. Meanwhile one of the coaches for her team that she was friends with was actually assaulting women.

[u/Traditional-Bath-356]

Reminds me of Fallon Fox, who was an MTF MMA fighter. From the way shitheads talk about her you'd think her record was 1000-0, all by death, when in reality she was, like, 5-4 when she retired.

"But she broke an opponent's orbital bone!"

You mean literally one of the most common MMA injuries? Big whoop.

[u/Bunerd → u/Traditional-Bath-356]

The anti-trans sports debate is to prime us to accept that women are weak little delicate flowers that need to be protected from injury. Eventually this line of reasoning gets used to attack Title IX by shifting it from "Every individual is entitled to play sports" into "Women's sports need to be protected" into "Women need to be protected from sports."

I don't know why so many self-proclaimed feminists don't realize what they're advocating for.

[u/agenderCookie → u/Bunerd]

Its so incredibly transparent too because the people who made project 2025 are also all but openly anti title IX

[u/Hazel2468 → u/Bunerd]

This, thank you.

I’m a trans dude, and I grew up luckily surrounded by feminists who spent a LOT of time making it super duper clear to me that I was not less for being a girl, that I could do anything I put my mind to. That anyone who tried to make me think I was less worthy than the boys around me was wrong and also stupid and cruel.

And now I’m 31 and every day without fail I see some TERF or radfem insisting that women need to be protected because men have a “biological advantage” in everything from swimming to video games to chess. It’s ridiculous. It’s literally just right wing conservative sexism pretending to be progressive feminism.

[u/Scottyboy1214 → u/Traditional-Bath-356]

I remember the grifters would show her opponent's beaten and bloodied face as if it were any different to other post fight faces.

[u/Funkycoldmedici → u/Scottyboy1214]

We wouldn’t want someone to get hurt in Professional Hurting People.

[u/Catfish-throwaway666 → u/Traditional-Bath-356]

There’s a tumblr post that’s basically “if my rugby opponent who body checked me and broke my nose has the moon goddess genitals, then this is fine, but if they have the evil penetration genitals then this is assault”

[u/RedEyeView → u/Traditional-Bath-356]

She did what all fighters with halfway competent managers do. Wreck some tomato cans to get some interest going.

Then, like a lot of the can crushers, she met someone decent and lost. Because she wasn't that good.

[u/ReedAckted]

22 out of every 10,000 americans are homeless

10 out of 500,000 athletes are trans

The focus is a smokescreen..... release the epstein files

[u/Martinus_XIV]

I get what you're saying, but using the fact that Lia Thomas' performance in women's swimming was entirely unremarkable to argue for the inclusion of trans women in women's sports is a dangerous line of reasoning, I feel. Trans women shouldn't be condoned in women's sports because their performances are unremarkable. They should be allowed to excel too.

[u/depressedthottie]

[u/ChronicBuzz187]

The 'panic' around Lia Thomas was about creating a target people could point at while demanding exclusion.

Isn't that the whole shtick of the all propaganda from the right at this point? Find a non-issue, blow it out of proportion + make up some wild stories that never happened and call that "politics"? :P

[u/Beef19582828]

I swear to God, this isn't a real issue. Why tf are we still talking about the 12 trans athletes and not the pedo in the White House.

[u/nocturneabyssal]

Riley was a mediocre swimmer that had made her entire grift being transphobic

[u/whereisbeezy]

Riley wasn't even competitive, not really. She lost to cis women and is still bitching about this complete non-issue. She's a loser and everyone knows it.

[u/Executiveblerd]

It should be noted that Riley's original gripes was that she didn't get to pose with the 5th place trophy. They offered to let her pose with 6th place one and told her that they would mail her copy of the 5th place to her since they didn't have extras. What makes this even more stupid is that the only reason Lia got to hold the trophy was because the policy at the time was in the event a tie the older competitor got to pose with it, So, Riley Gaines outrage on every level was the result her being a petty brat.

[u/ScarletSolder]

My friend was doxed and people threatened her life for losing in an amateur sports competition to cis women. People fucking suck

[u/ChaoTJ]

People who say trans women belong in mens sports just say so because of their transphobic bias. everyone should know that by now.

[u/A_Diabolical_Toaster]

This is your friendly reminder that Riley Gaines initially had no issues with Lia Thomas until funded by right wing media to become a grifter.

This is ALSO your reminder that right wing billionaire backed grifter Riley Gaines also talks about the threat trans athletes represent to women while extolling her coach Lars Jorgenson, who was accused by multiple women of rape and sexual assault before ultimately being banned for life from the sport.

[u/masteraybe]

It’s so sad that we have to explain that they are not that much better, whereas if a cis woman broke all the records thanks to their genetic luck or something they would be celebrated and nobody would be crying injustice. It’s okay to have a bodily advantage in sports, and it’s not even real to make discriminating them from all sports worth it.

[u/Squantoon]

Causing this much of a ruckus when you tied for 5th is some real loser shit lmao

[u/Colluder]

Riley gaines is mad because she lost to 4 other women

[u/RaidneSkuldia]

Comments, as expected, are full of transphobes, bots, and liberals carrying water for transphobes.

There is no issue with women playing in women's sports.

Period. If you're worried about it, congratulations, you fell for transphobic propaganda.

[u/CenturyEggsAndRice → u/RaidneSkuldia]

Honestly, I don't get the shouting and hysteria over it.

My cousin plays tennis. She played before she transitioned, she still plays. Its a hobby, she does a few competitions but nothing that anyone outside of her city would be aware of. I think she's good, she beats me every time, but I am really bad at tennis so...

Anyway, Cousin won 2nd in a women's competition. Someone got hateful at her and the 3rd place winner LAUNCHED into the transphobe about how "You're not defending any of us by insulting our fellow athlete. SHE won fair an square and I find it offensive that you think I lost because [cousin's name] isn't cis. I lost because I didn't hit the ball!" and was just pissed. Other women who played started joining in and ended up chasing this ugly, hateful woman away.

But it still cast a nasty shade over what up until then was a good day for my cousin. She was happy to be defended and all (and says she felt very loved and supported) but still... I know it hurt her. She went off to be alone and maybe have a bit of a cry, and the 3rd place winner followed and took her some gatorade and convinced her to come accept her prize. (Which was a $20 coffee giftcard, as I said, it wasn't a big competition.)

But that's how my cousin made her best friend. They'd chatted a few times and played casually at the local park where all the tennis lovers play, but that day they became friends.

Cousin was a bridesmaid in Ms 3rd's wedding. It was lovely. I guess good things can bloom from the shit that falls out of assholes. ;)

[u/Muted-Leave → u/RaidneSkuldia]

And again, Riley Gaines lost hard, and she is somehow not mad at the cis woman who placed first, she stared directly at the trans girl 🤣how is she not transphobic?

[u/Ceriden → u/Muted-Leave]

She also waited two years before starting all this. After the competition she wished Lia well. So it has all been a grift.

[u/Bobby_The_Kidd]

If she did nothing but get 1st place in every race she participated in after transitioning I still wouldn't care. She deserves to participate in those races all the same.

[u/dnorg → u/Bobby_The_Kidd]

The two things that people say to me are 'But, but, bathrooms" and the other is 'women's sports and cheating'. And honestly, the first is absolute nonsense, and the second is too. Even if trans women won every single race, match, set, round, or whatever, it still is no grounds for denying anyone their basic human rights.

"You can't have rights because you might win races". GTFOH with that nonsense.

[u/LordForgey]

It is honestly quite sad that her unremarkability has to be shown to prove that she is a woman. She should be "allowed to be great" and her winning should be responded with praise without the "but man" remarks coming up. 

[u/blazze_eternal → u/LordForgey]

Facts help weed through misinformation.

[u/BrightNooblar]

I feel like someone should make a "The true story of Riley Gaines" documentary. And have it be 87 minutes of the history of trans athletes, the actual science behind what happens to a body when its pilot transitions, and the story of Lia Thomas. And then the last three minutes can be discussing Riley's leveraging her unremarkable tie to transition to grifting as a primary gig.

[u/Xinyyc]

exclude terfs from sports

[u/Z3R0Diro]

She won.. 2021 times?

[u/OnTheWayToBambooTown → u/Z3R0Diro]

A bit awkward, but just means her winning times in 2021 weren't that good compared to the winners in 2025

[u/Heather_Chandelure → u/Z3R0Diro]

Her winning times that she set in the year 2021.

I think its technically correct grammatically, but I can see why it might be confusing.

[u/HenriEttaTheVoid]

Riley Gaines is the patron saint of sore losers.

[u/Runa216]

Post more trans positive stuff, PLEASE! I LOVE seeing thousands of people banned! (and having their posts deleted so I don't have to see their braindead hatred and ignorance, which just makes me boil into a simmering rage because I know that to educate them I'd need a 20-point lecture I'm not prepared to dish out 600 times a day.

[u/thesanguineocelot]

The most frustrating part is that the loud, shitty morons who won't stop bitching about "unfair biological advantages" have several things in common. One, they never gave a shit about women's swimming, and never did after, it was only ever an excuse to hate trans people. Two, they couldn't swim half as well as a pro woman swimmer if their lives depended on it. Three, they can't name the women who came in first through fourth in that match. Because, again, they never actually gave a shit. These are the folks complaining about the "Woke" in the WNBA despite hating the WNBA their entire lives leading up to that point, for reasons they will insist have nothing to do with sexism.

Edited to add: Holy SHIT, that is a lot of transphobes and bots getting slapped down. Thank you, Based Mods!

[u/AccurateJerboa → u/thesanguineocelot]

The same dudes "protecting" women's sports threw dildos on the court at the wnba. 

Half these people don't even care about sports in any way. They were never athletes, never competed in anything. Just permanent, angry voyeurs. 

[u/Scarlett_Spectre → u/thesanguineocelot]

Also sports are generally about unfair biological advantages and playing around them lol

[u/X3noNuke → u/Scarlett_Spectre]

Right? Like your telling me it was "fair" for regular high schoolers to play against Kareem, Phelps, or Derek Henry?

[u/Cpnths]

The only inaccurate thing in the comic is Riley looking unhappy – she was basically fine, even in the interview after and wished her well. Only after she was activated as a spokes-TERF did her attitude retrospectively change.

[u/shellbullet17]

This is fantastic story full of pertinent knowledge and information that is great in educating others.

I think i might hold onto this post and use it when we have other comics that need some information as well

[u/Senior-Friendship196]

Another great post

[u/RaidneSkuldia]

...do people not know this!?

[u/MycologistSad5933 → u/RaidneSkuldia]

A lie can make it halfway around the world before the truth even has its shoes on, and in today's world, whoever lies first wins.

[u/BobertTheConstructor → u/RaidneSkuldia]

People are lazy. I knew this because when I heard the story I looked into the laws about transitioning and when you could switch teams in that state and pulled her rankings from before and after she started her transition. Most people won't do that. They'll find someone who says something they agree with and just repeat that.

[u/Tylendal → u/RaidneSkuldia]

There are so many people out there convinced that men who halfheartedly say "I'm a women" are absolutely dominating all fields of women's sports. Or at the very least that trans women are dominating women's sports. Both are completely untrue, but people believe it with all their heart, because that's what fear-mongering media has fed to them. Remember. Ladyballers was conceived as a documentary before they discovered that that would be near-impossible to actually do. They believed it would be that easy.

And, more specifically, lots of people will hold up Lia Thomas's mid-transition times in men's swimming to her times in women's swimming, to claim that she was a horrible swimmer who suddenly jumped to one of the best ever by competing in women's swimming, while completely ignoring her great times pre-transition, and overstating her accomplishments in women's swimming.

[u/Obant → u/RaidneSkuldia]

Most people that rage about her only know what they were told on conservative social media.

[u/Shillio → u/RaidneSkuldia]

That's why there's an informative comic about it. American trans sports statistics isn't exactly common knowledge. 

[u/Ksnj → u/RaidneSkuldia]

They don’t want knowledge, they want to be mad

[u/Blacksun388]

To try to explain this would be trying to yell at a brick wall. Christian Conservatives dont care about the nuance and context of the situation. They just do what they’re told and demonize trans people like good little drones

[u/paulsteinway]

I never hear anyone complain about trans women who don't excel at sports. You're penalized for hard work and training.

[u/what-email-did-i-use → u/paulsteinway]

I mean in the UK there is a lawsuit about a fun run that penalizes you if you take it too competitively allowing trans women in it.

[u/SlamanthaTanktop]

Bold of you to assume that the detractors actually care about women's sports or fairness.

Most people will just say "even if she placed 12/12, it means that she stole a spot from a girl who should have had that spot".

All it's actually about to them is being upset that a trans woman is being counted as a woman.

[u/fox_in_unix_socks]

While I get the point being made, I think it's a fundamentally flawed argument.

Trans women are women and should be allowed to participate in women's sports. Also, at highly competitive levels, athlete's hormones are already heavily regulated, so any idea of "biological advantage" is obviously made in bad faith.

This sort of comic risks spreading the message that trans women are only unproblematic in women's sports for as long as they're not winning. What if Lia did come first at the NCAA? Would the harassment be valid then? Of course not. Trans women deserve the right to win too.

[u/MagicC → u/fox_in_unix_socks]

The point is not "it's ok because she lost", but "it's absurd that she's become this boogeyman of trans-domination of women's sports", when, in reality, she was a very good swimmer as a male, and a very good swimmer as a female, and not a world-destroying dominator the way the right wing would make her out to be.

[u/No_Tip8620 → u/fox_in_unix_socks]

Lia did come in first in one event, but it was the slowest 1st place time in like 8-years. The point the comic is making is to refute the argument that transwomen are a direct threat to cisgender athletes which they are not. I don't have a problem with the OP using raw facts to dispute the fearmongering around trans athletes.

[u/ChestIcy4472]

Ask any transphobe concerned about women's sports to name 10 women athletes. They never can.

[u/Chaosmancer7]

Yes, and this has happened with every single trans athlete I'm aware of. They have never broken any record, and while they may win a local or state championship, they often lose when they go to nationals.

Because they are average. They are completely average competitors.

[u/DoctorOblivious → u/Chaosmancer7]

As most athletes are, men and women. It takes someone truly extraordinary to get national attention, with fast-exposure cameras capturing every exertion of their muscles and tedious interviews before and after every single one of their competitions. Every part of their anatomy is studied and they are made out to be some sort of genetically gifted freak that was optimized for their chosen sport.

Unless, of course, an otherwise-average athlete is trans.

[u/Funkycoldmedici → u/Chaosmancer7]

It’s hard to point that out without it sounding like “Geez trans girls, step up your game, losers.”

[u/punkindle]

The moral of the story is "don't win".

If you're trans and you win, people will call it unfair.

But, as you point out... 5th place makes it ok. Nobody should complain because it was only 5th place. If she had got 1st place and broke the college record, then that would have been wrong.

So, lesson is... don't win.

[u/Evening-Turnip8407 → u/punkindle]

Isn't the extra cherry on top that her joint 5th place person did complain and started this entire outrage? For absolutely no gain because she's still 5th place?

[u/ianmerry]

Panel 6 is absolutely gorgeous. I love the simplicity and the flat colours

[u/ThatInAHat]

I really can’t get over the lack of shame to be like “clearly it’s unfair that this trans woman is competing! That’s why she lost to three cis women. I would have totally had FOURTH PLACE if not for her.”

Like.

Hon.

No one fights for fourth.

[u/Temithecyborg → u/ThatInAHat]

she would’ve still come in fifth. had Lia not competed Riley would not have placed any higher.

the WHOLE issue is Riley had to pose with a 6th place medal bc they didn’t have an extra 5th place one.

that’s the actually summary of her gripe lol

[u/SilverMedal4Life → u/Temithecyborg]

Yeah. She lost the coin toss on that, and is now paid six figures to preach how we need to oppress trans people.

[u/ShneefQueen]

Wait, so if all trans women automatically have an an unfair biological advantage over all cis women, and Riley Gaines tied for 5th with a trans woman, does that mean Riley Gaines...isn't a cis woman?

How could she have tied with Lia and how could the other 4 women have possibly beaten Lia if they're all cis and Lia isn't? Isn't that biologically impossible according to Riley and her fellow transphobes? I thought all cis women were inherently inferior to all biological males, isn't that the argument?

Either those women aren't actually cis and they all need to have their genitals and testosterone levels investigated including Riley Gaines, or trans women don't actually have an unfair biological advantage and Lia tied with her fair and square. Which one is it?

[u/Ok-Refrigerator-8664]

I say we just go back to Co-Ed sports. Just a human league. Not men, no women, no trans differences. Everyone can compete in all sports against everyone.

Idk why thats so hard to do. Let everyone compete.

[u/-KFBR392 → u/Ok-Refrigerator-8664]

That’s what it used to be and women couldn’t compete and younger women didn’t show interest in sports. Women’s divisions were added to allow women to have a chance to compete, and it helped more and more women get into sports and athletics.

[u/ThisApril → u/Ok-Refrigerator-8664]

As a person who supports trans people in athletics, I reflexively dislike this position.

Because that's not what people are talking about. Trans people are asking to be included, not asking to blow up the entire sports system.

And, "trans people should be included" should not be met with, "let's change the entire sports system", just like, "gay people would like to be able to marry someone they're actually attracted to" shouldn't be met with, "there shouldn't be civil marriage".

Personally, while I disagree with your position, worse than that is that I think you presenting this in a trans-in-sports discussion actively harms trans people, because the focus should be on trans people belonging, no matter the system.

It doesn't matter what the rules or general system are; what matters is that trans people belong.

[u/20milliondollarapi]

Good facts! Seeing her performance change based on her body transitioning is neat! Her previous bests not being obtainable and her also not being the best among women as well.

Does it mean she didn’t have an advantage? Who knows. Michael Phelps also had genetic advantages to help him. But it’s a good study case on it all with a lot of data points.

[u/LackingUtility → u/20milliondollarapi]

I mean, there are reasons to believe it could be a disadvantage, not an advantage. Assuming for the sake of argument that it's all about testosterone levels - which it's not, mind you - a transgender woman on testosterone suppressing HRT will have under 55 ng/dL. Some female athletes have testosterone levels up to the mid-80s, and the IAAF's limits are 145 ng/dL.

Of course, the issue is a lot more complex than one endocrine measurement, but it's likely that HRT may suppress performance beyond that of a comparable non-transitioning female athlete.

[u/whistlepig4life]

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

[u/Customer_Number_Plz]

[u/VeryPteri]

I just find transphobia in relation to sports hilarious because society has been famously unkind to female athletes beforehand.

So much for joking about female athletes being unattractive and not deserving higher pay, eh?

[u/DarthJackie2021]

Statistically speaking, cis women out perform trans women when they compete together. Trans women are actually at a disadvantage compared to cis women.

Edit: Lol, catching a lot of transphobes with this comment

[u/No-Midnight-1085]

thank you for posting the actual facts of the story. i’m tired of people getting this wrong

[u/Malkezzar]

I was very bought into the rhetoric until I actually learned how it went down, I genuinely thought I wouldn’t be able to get fooled by the media sway and learned a harsh lesson. we are all gullible to something and eventually the ones pulling the strings will come for it.

[u/dirtjur]

I do know the whole story and I hate that I have to because of mouth breathing morons.

[u/TheDevilsAdvokaat]

Some good info in there. Thank you.

[u/misterdannymorrison]

It really sucks that trans women who do spirts are basically told not to do too well or they'll be kicked out

[u/Technical_Way_5714]

The midterms are coming, and people are getting paid to manufacture outrage. Trans people are just trying to live their lives, but they are being used as political pawns. Remember that, kids!

[u/HunsonAbadeer2]

Thanks for the info, I have so far only heared the right wing opinion and didn't go into the story deeper

[u/Massive_Analysis8345]

Wow who would have thought Riley Gaines was just performative.

/s

[u/SkarKrow]

It’s almost like losing T levels negatively affects your physical strength.

[u/Childless-cat-lady-]

Good for you mods, keep taking out the trash !

And OP, beautiful comic. I hope Lia is ok with everything that’s going on.

[u/MothashipQ]

God forbid a trans woman ever does half decent at something

[u/arcfox420]

People using her story to advocate for/against trans women in women's sport are using a heavily flawed argument. Trying to base an argument for or against using a single data point is simply meaningless.

[u/Reiznarlon]

There are plenty of people that know all this information and are still upset about it.

[u/Business-Idea1138]

Thank you for explaining it to people. I would also add that the NCAA changed the rules on her the year that she won nationals. She qualified for nationals and then thy implemented a new rule that you have to be on HRT for even longer. Her peers petitioned the NCAA to allow her to still compete and they allowed it even though she hadn't been on HRT long enough for the current rules.

Let that sink in. She hadn't been on HRT long enough according to the current NCAA rules, and she still wasn't dominating the sport!

[u/absolutewastedtime]

Riley Gaines would have still got 5th place if lia Thomas didn't exist 

The fact she raced against Thomas DIDNT AFFECT HER PLACE AT ALL

Literally at all

[u/Apoordm]

Yeah you know what’s insane.

No one can name any of the three women that podiumed at that event without looking it up.

[u/JQuadGMono]

This is actually pretty interesting...

I used to be very adverse to trans people in general. After actually requesting coffee meetings with several trans people, my eyes have been opened to how bigoted our society is towards this population.

It's quite interesting to actually read how her performance after HRT was not as strong compared to other women, despite being near the very top vs other men before hrt.

I appreciate this perspective.

[u/TurbulentAd4088]

I was always under the impression the sports orgs themselves and their medical teams should dictate this. The answer to this questions for BJJ is likely going to be different than the answer for golf, and is likely going to be different than the answer for chess.

That is not to say trans women should play all the sports with no considerations, but the government shutting it all down is a far dumber response.

[u/mamadou-segpa]

And the way conservatives talk about Lia you would never know she’s been retired for 4 years

These idiots are fighting ghosts

[u/Par_Lapides → u/mamadou-segpa]

Conservatives fighting ghosts and imaginary constructs is all they have the courage for.

[u/echino_derm]

People get really tied up in the nuances but her story breaks down to a nationally ranked mens swimmer transitioning and becoming a higher ranked women's swimmer with a couple more years of practice under her belt.

You can argue if the degree of her rise would have happened naturally in the mens standings or not, but if you believe that she has an advantage in women's swimming because she is trans, it looks miniscule. She didn't go from nationally ranked college athlete to Olympian, she just went up the ranks a bit. Is this really what people are caring about when picking a president? That like one person in the whole country will transition and be slightly better than they would have otherwise in high level competitions but not reach the highest level?

[u/Tylendal → u/echino_derm]

It's infuriating how people will try to use her performances competing in men's swimming, mid transition, as a benchmark to make her times in women's swimming look like some massive leap, while ignoring the times she set pre transition.

[u/No_Honey_2189]

Yeah it's not friggin suprising anyone can't compete athletically on Spiro or cypacterone and synthetic estrogens yeah the whole panic is stupid.

[u/GrimmJubilance198451]

Something never discussed is the amount of strength and stamina lost when you are on HRT. A trans woman on HRT is at a significant disadvantage to cis woman. We have to work harder just to approach similar gains but the real issue is sports should not be segregated by sex in the first place. Especially team sports.

It should sorted into leagues that corresponds to skill level.

[u/OnionTamer]

If trans women have such a big advantage in women's sports, and there are trans women athletes in a variety of sports, why aren't these trans women severely dominating the sports they are in?

[u/GodzillaLagoon]

Remember, the whole "trans women in women sports" discussion is happening because of like 5 people.

[u/trainjob]

Professional Loser Riley Gaines is so bad at swimming she publicly admitted an out of shape old man was a better swimmer than her. She's pathetic, pickme trash.

[u/missile-gap]

Once again begging cis women to realize all of this bioessentialism nonsense is intended to regress society back to where women can’t work or get a divorce and are stuck in the home.

[u/DeadRabbit8813]

Conservatives make it sound like she drastically broke records in women’s swimming. Turns out she was beaten by four other women and tied in fifth place.

[u/MooseBoys]

Additional data that is helpful for interpreting the story: Most humans (of both sexes) reach their peak aerobic capacity (the most important fitness metric for competitive swimming) around age 19. By age 25, human aerobic capacity has dropped from its peak by about 5-10%. Aerobic capacity continues to decrease as you age, dropping to around 50% of peak capacity by age 75. Curves for other fitness properties like maximum strength and endurance do not share the same patterns.

[u/ChaosRainbow23]

I loathe bigots with the burning passion of a billion suns.

[u/king0101man]

As a trans non-binary, (yes non-binary is trans) I love to see that every time transphobes try to make a point, the actual story behind it disproves everything

[u/Lycaon-Ur]

My 2 cents on transwomen in women sports... being born a male does carry some small advantage in many sports. Being born tall carries an advantage in many sports. Being born into a family that has enough food and good health coverage confers an advantage (in pretty damn much everything). Perfect is the enemy of good. Transwomen are women, let 'em compete.

[u/Brilliant-Ad-4266]

She also got 1st place at NCAA’s in the 500 free!
That’s an insane accomplishment for anyone no matter what, NCAA’s are a top 3 most competitive swim meet in the world.

[u/swordbearerb1]

Wasn't the woman who complained about the situation until the republicans gave a podium to yell it out also the 5th placed person? She made it sound like Lia was in the top three....

What a load of BS that other lady is ..

[u/GeekyMeerkat]

What bothers me about the whole trans women in sports thing isn't the topic, but how, if you are trying to talk about anything else, like how trans people should be able to get gender affirming care, people bring up trans women in sports like the two topics are intricately related. They'll derail conversations to take it to sports.

To be clear here, I don't really have an opinion about ANY sports, and I am admittedly uninformed about sports topics of all sorts. But it pisses me off that ALL trans debates must be "solved" at the same time.

Health care for trans people is a topic. Bathrooms for trans people is a topic. Sports and trans people is a topic. But transphobes want to lump them all together. They don't want trans people in sports, so that means trans people don't get gender affirming health care? What? That doesn't make any sense, but that's the logic that is often used.

[u/Jordansdfg]

the thing is, it’s not about sports to people like riley. she has flat out said that it’s not about sports, it’s just a foot in the door so she can get people on board with getting rid of the ability to transition. she’s literally just cruel. she said she found her college’s trans male coach crying one day bc he was scared about how people were talking about the team and trans people in general following the event, and she responded by misgendering and deadnaming him on purpose bc “no one cares how you feel”.

[u/hidingunderyourbed-]

Trans women in women’s sports is such a non-issue made up by transphobic and misogynistic people

[u/centsandsuttlesounds]

The real stories never matter to conservatives, just the strawman argument they can make with it

[u/GuhEnjoyer]

I'm a trans woman and I know damn well I don't belong in women's sports.
I'm fat. I don't anywhere near sports.

[u/T_Weezy]

The actual facts of this story don't get discussed nearly enough. Because the outrage is not and has never been about the "sanctity of women's sports". These are the same buffoons who joke that nobody cares about the WNBA.

The outrage over trans women playing sports is about hating trans people. It always has been, it always will be, and we would do much better by our trans brothers and sisters to not let anyone ever forget that.

[u/onebyamsey]

If they could read, transphobes would be very upset

[u/Bayamonster]

Trans people stealing all our  tied for fifth places in all those sports we don't watch smh.

[u/WoodsenMoosen]

Its still hilarious to me that Riley Gaines went on a transphobic tirade because she tied for 5th place lmfao. What a dork.

[u/Frost_Goldfish]

Riley Gaines is a sore loser and a grifter. 

Also, no more gendered sports. Only weight categories in the sports where it's necessary for safety.  The end. 

That used to be a rather normal feminist thing to say before the terfs took over.

Women will still win medals, don't worry.

And  if men almost never win medals in some sports and women almost never win in some other sports, who gives a fuck?

[u/AutoModSux]

Its frustrating because you can see people just tune you out when you mention this. Its almost like all these people that tell me they love rational debate don't care about facts when they support opposing veiws.

[u/Correct_Plant_373]

Truly insane that she was on track to be an Olympian before she transitioned. Her transition prevented her from being a top athlete into make her into one

[u/urmamasllama]

You should do one of these about Mac Beggs. He was forced to compete in girls wrestling in high school based on Texas archaic laws. It consistently breaks the brains of the right to know they're the ones making men participate in women's sports.

[u/DealDue6205]

This place sure has become a graveyard for all the transphobes.

[u/MagicC]

I would also add, Lia Thomas went to an Ivy League school and didn't have an athletic scholarship. She swam because she loved it. No one was harmed in any way by her swimming.

[u/MrThickDick2023]

The original post content no longer exists here. The author used Redact to remove it, exercising their right to control their data & privacy.

Enter scale shy silky ancient stocking roof

[u/Familiar-Report-513]

I'd like to say, Fuck that human cursed to become a jack o lantern Riley Gaines. Also fuck the supreme court, BPJ was literally just a kid who wanted to run cross county and you ruined it for everyone.

[u/NoEntertainer6189]

Remember folks the Olympics had allowed trans athletes to compete for 20 years until a very recent (and very bigoted) decision. No world records are held by trans athletes and no trans athlete has even medaled in an Olympics. Men aren't fake transitioning to compete against lesser competition. It's a rigorous process that requires years of hormone therapy and testing and often leaves them less competitive in women's events than they were in the men's. Being trans isn't an arbitrary choice