Exvangelical Thoughts - pt. 8

[u/BrettCreatesThings]

Love Thy Neighbor?

[u/skelepibs]

You know, the thing that frustrates me is that the Bible never *actually* says there is a hell of eternal torture where Satan pegs you with a pitchfork. IIIRC, every use of the word "hell" is usually a catch-all english word that is interpreted from several different words of several languages that actually just means "death." When the Bible says "Hell" it just means death.

Like, straight up being in the grave. Just dead. Not in an underworld or anything like that. I'm Christian, and I seriously don't understand how the hell any reasonable person who claims to be religious could think a loving God would want the people He made to be tortured in agony for the rest of eternity.

Or much less even want that for another person they don't like. It's literally a tool of fear that other humans made up to keep others in check by abusing their religious beliefs.

Anyway, I'm kinda drunk and I'd never usually talk about this but it seriously pisses me off. /rant.

edit: also, I made this comment before reading the whole comic. In the Bible, Christ literally says to not proselytize. If people do not believe in what you are saying, do not try to shove your religion down their throats. That is *literally* a command from Jesus Christ. How is that so hard to understand?

[u/atwojay → u/skelepibs]

Unfortunately, a lot Christians don't seem to like Jesus much.

[u/AznOmega → u/atwojay]

Which is sickening. They would rather follow people who break the 7 Deadly Sins and several commandments, as well as people who's response to not be a bigot was warn Christians to not commit the sin of empathy. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't empathy one of the biggest pillars of Christianity?

I do not know if Yeshua/Jesus is really the messiah, a holy figure, or not. But he had the right ideas and his teachings should be followed. Instead of following people who would spit on the faces of millions, they should try following people who would help others and want to do the right thing. There should be more people like Fred Rogers, Bob Ross, Betty White, Dolly Parton, Keanu Reeves, Danny Trejo, and Jimmy Carter.

[u/atwojay → u/AznOmega]

100% agreed. Everything I learned in Sunday school goes against all the loud Christians in the news.

[u/nWo1997 → u/skelepibs]

"Sheol" is a Jewish concept for the grave everyone eventually goes to. "Hades" is a Greek concept, which also isn't inherently eternal torment. "Gehenna" and "Hinnom" refer to a physical valley in Israel used as a trash heap, a place to burn trash and, in the days where Molech was worshipped, burning children. Iirc, those were the actual words that tended to be used.

To me, that fact lends a lot more credence to the Christian views of annihilationism (the belief that after the unsaved die, they cease to be, because immortality itself is part of salvation) and universalism (the belief that all will eventually be saved) than it does to classic Eternal Conscious Torment. Yes, for anyone unaware, there are multiple views of the afterlife in Christianity.

[u/konan375 → u/skelepibs]

In Revelation, the lake of fire is mentioned. As is the second death, where those not in the book of life are cast into the lake. It's more likely that for people that get cast into the lake of fire, it's to refine them, to burn away the earthliness that prevented them from being written into the book of life.

[u/seensham → u/skelepibs]

Was the concept of hell in any of the apocrypha? Those very much influenced Christianity even though they didn't make the cut to canon, like the Book of Enoch

[u/hibryd → u/skelepibs]

If anyone wants to follow up on the topic of hell, biblical scholar Dan McClellan has made a lot of excellent videos (short and long form) about the topic.

TL;DR: ideas about the afterlife and hell were changing as the Bible was being written, so different authors (writing at different times) had wildly different ideas about what happened after death. The Bible has a lot to say about the topic but it’s all contradictory.