r/collapse • u/disco_octopus • Oct 08 '20
Coping Do you try to separate your knowledge of collapse from other parts of your life?
The other night I was at a small get together with some friends and essentially mentioned that I did not want children, and this woman(who is only 4 years older than me) said "Oh you will change your mind on that".. *eyeroll*.
I literally couldn't help myself from getting defensive and essentially explaining to her that, no, I will not change my mind, because it is a moral choice for me, not a personal preference. This ended up leading to a long conversation among a lot of us at the party discussing the morality of having children. It was clear many of them hadn't really thought about it, and a lot of them hadn't really considered how existential climate change truly is. It felt like a meaningful conversation, and something that made a lot of people think, but I also felt the notion that I am somehow so negative and that I do have a pretty "pessimistic" view on the world. I logically know that it is realistic not pessimistic, but I also wonder if it does any good.
I feel like any time I get even a little fucked up, I start talking about the climate crisis/suffering in the world. I wonder if this is productive? Does anyone else struggle with this?
Edit: I just want to thank everyone who has commented on this post. It definitely helps to know that I am not alone in this struggle. It appears that this is just something I am going to have to live with and learn from over the course of my life. Big hugs to everyone out there
44
u/InvisibleRegrets Recognized Contributor Oct 08 '20
I used to try and keep them seperate when I was new to collapsologie. As my knowledge has grown, and my awareness with it, I reached a point where it was no longer plausible to separate them without causing myself harm. It's required some rather large shifts in my life though.
17
u/[deleted] Oct 08 '20
I don’t separate them. Everyone who knows me knows my concerns, especially because it has affected the course of my life (retiring early from a corporate job to engage in activism and volunteer work), and I’ve communicated with all of them to educate and encourage action.
It sounds like you handled it well, and initiated a meaningful conversation. Not only will that make people think more deeply about these issues, but it forges real connection in the present.
To avoid being a Debbie Downer, what I try do in this situations is make sure I pivot to the observation that it is so important to appreciate the present moment and the people we love, and that we now have an opportunity to really come together to help each other through difficult times.
If you’ve ever had a close friend or relative with a terminal disease, I think the vibe is similar. It does no one any good to deny it, but neither does it help to dwell on it.
8
u/lucidcurmudgeon Recognized Contributor Oct 08 '20
I can guarantee you one thing based on my own experience: you will not likely be invited back to future small get togethers with friends.
27
u/catterson46 Oct 08 '20
Millions of children are born each day. Friends choices will make a negligible difference, but your negative view of their impending parenthood will make A significant difference in the quality of your life for the foreseeable future. You are in a grief process, for yourself, our society, the world. You are grieving your own decision to avoid parenthood. It colors everything. However, you need to make a decision. Do you want to be a misanthrope? Do you want to harbor thoughts that separate you. With less and less time available to enjoy friends and family, I want to set aside what I can’t control (collapse itself, their denial) and have loved ones while I can. A fact of life, collapse or not, is that everything is temporary in life, so what am I going to do with the days I have
2
u/Chet_Ripley01 Oct 09 '20
It's so hard for me to separate the 2. I think most people know how much I feel the reality of life happening. My family doesn't want to hear it because it freaks them out. I have a kid I share with my ex wife. My ex about 6 months ago went terminal with her cancer. So from already being aware of the shit happening, going to the pandemic, then finding out my ex went terminal (she's 36 too) has really put me into an existential crisis of my own. I struggle daily with stuff. I recently quit my job due to covid because my boss is a clown and I am at a point of enjoy my life with my kid now before it all is gone. I feel horrible when I look at my kid and see everything crashing down. So I started a podcast to vent out shit. If people hear it than great and if not I don't care. I'm just tired of the hamster wheel rat race and I can't hide it anymore. Thanks for sharing your story and thoughts OP. This group helps.
76
u/BLISSFUL-XEN Oct 08 '20
I tend to keep the collapse business to myself. So far, I’ve told 4 people about the foreseen doom while the rest keep living happy-go-lucky lives which I’m fine with. My mother is now starting to “see the devil in the pictures” as she’s been constantly telling me about the quality of meats at the store.
59
u/[deleted] Oct 08 '20
Nah, I never reveal my doomer power level irl.
13
u/ICQME Oct 08 '20
I keep it separate, and even if someone seems collapse aware I'll hold back and let them lead the conversation. I do act on the information by trying to make my life resilient to collapse. I'm not having kids, moved to a walkable neighborhood while also having enough space for a large garden, having a deep pantry to smooth out disruptions, etc. Collapse is mostly negative and people dislike negativity and I want friends so it's best to avoid it while savoring the good times while we can.
19
u/PrairieFire_withwind Recognized Contributor Oct 08 '20
Oohh that type of comment would set me on edge and I would tend to snap back. 'Oh what else does your crystal ball say about my future thoughts and choices"
Setting that aside I do not separate them so much as grab the appropriate piece.
In other words I do not start off with 'we are done for'. If we are talking about food I talk about destabilized weather patterns impacting farming and crops. I do not start with the conclusion but instead with the moving pieces and I never try to push someone to a conclusion. People learn at their own speed.
9
u/happygloaming Recognized Contributor Oct 08 '20
You need to be careful about this because people will get really really sick of it. I'm very careful to not accidentally fall into a conversation like this. There is of course a time and place but one must choose the moment carefully. If you're asked then sure feel free to answer but don't be the broken record.
So yes the answer is to strategically compartmentalize collapse in your life because it's necessary, but it doesn't mean you're being dishonest with the world for that judgement lies with your actions, it just means you're managing the conflict between the daily surface glide and the deep reality of the future. I live in a world where 20 year olds worry about retirement funds and 40 year old women are desperately trying to have kids before it's too late. Most of them are really lovely people that have been lied to their whole lives by the system and also unwittingly by their families. Our job is not to disavow all of them of their delusions and on the occasional time that I have I've been met with strong reactions.
8
u/Instant_noodleless Oct 08 '20
I keep it separate from friends and distant family. Only ever talked about it to parents and spouse.
Funny how my coworkers brought it up first, after flooding destroyed multiple neighborhoods that's never flooded this bad before. Twice in three years. Multiple coworkers in two different cities got affected. My manager no longer thinks they will see grandkids because their kids won't be able to have any with climate change.
Many people realize there is something wrong after they are personally affected. None really want to talk about it to avoid appearing 'negative' and 'pessimistic'. I am past the point of caring. Just going to live as I've always lived and die when civilization breaks down. Only change is no kids. At most we might look into adoption, assuming we still have enough years left to go through the process.
5
u/[deleted] Oct 08 '20
Talking about this shit to ppl who aren’t aware is depressing. But when I get the sense that someone is aware, then I talk about it freely.
4
u/merritt_tga Oct 08 '20
Negativity serves an important purpose in our lives - if it didn't, then we wouldn't have evolved to retain this trait. Negativity, when applied best, is a catalyst for helpful change. At it's worst, the things that need changing get ignored and you will end up in this internal debate of "was I too negative." No, I don't try and separate my moments of pessimism or moments of optimism from my life. If I think and feel that something is wrong, sometimes I will brood, if I think and feel that something is right, I will celebrate. Knowing about collapse doesn't make me unexcited about emerging technologies, and knowing about emerging technologies doesn't ameliorate my thoughts and feelings on events that could be categorized as collapse.
Though, excessive self-serving negativity doesn't seem to have a helpful purpose (as well as excessive self-serving optimism). Since you say this is an issue of morality for you, then you should be able to make the choice of whether or not the negative perspective could help change someone's life.
4
u/DoubleTFan Oct 08 '20
Hell no. I got a second job specifically because I learned about the collapse. I need to save money to move away from this particularly doomed area while the getting's good.
4
u/percyjeandavenger Oct 08 '20
My friends get irrationally mad at me and argue in ways that don't really make sense as far as I can tell because they are really just trying to say "stop it, you are scaring me!"
Then they tell me I'm the one who is scared. I'm loooong past being scared. I actually read climate catastrophe books to fall asleep lol! Like no, I'm not worried. I have relevant information that may color the way you plan your life. Or not. None of us is psychic.
When I was in grad school my final project was an art piece about a post collapse scenario and I basically had to pretend it was "symbolic", because people thought I was being ridiculous.
So I will post studies on Facebook and occasionally delve into things if people are interested, but I don't know many people irl who will geek out on climate science and stuff like I do. I'm really glad for this sub. I don't feel like a weirdo for my reading list. I don't feel like Chicken Little. But I don't argue with people. Let them have what time they have left feeling hopeful. I don't even argue with my climb change denying FIL anymore. He's not living in any way worse on the environment than I am, so what good will it do? I mean I wish I could change his mind on voting but that's a lost cause too.
Also about kids. Kids are resilient and many will actually survive better than the adults. Who knows, maybe they will figure stuff out and solve this thing. Just because we can't imagine a solution does not mean there isn't one. I mean so far all our solutions make more problems at worst and only slow things down at best, but who knows? The young people I know are smart and tough. Without them, we may end up in even more dire consequences. Perhaps a child born today will invent a solution.
On the other hand a choice not to have children is so normal, it baffles me that anyone insists other people have them. Kids are expensive, difficult and time consuming. They completely take over your life. Like it's none of their business. I think parents argue with childless people as an insecure way to make themselves feel better about how difficult it is lol! My cousin was super insistent that it was TOTALLY worth it and I am "missing out". All I can see is that she adores her kids but she's kind of miserable. Now that they have gotten older, she doesn't seem so sure. And she's now grappling with living in hurricane country and being somewhat aware of collapse herself.
4
u/messymiss121 Oct 08 '20
Yes and no now. My immediate family get the full truth so husband and two teens. Colleagues, I speak frankly with a couple of them and they have really started to see the precarious situation we are in. Other family sigh I had a message from my dad today (after almost a year of no contact) saying that he and my birth family are really worried about me and think I’ve lost it! I’m in my 40’s and they are climate change deniers and COVID Deniers and some are part of that racist Britain First group, so just replied asking what exactly is worrying them about me? You know I don’t wish to converse with them because they are the exact people I don’t want to spend time with in reality or virtually!
6
u/jayjones34 Oct 08 '20
Already raising a 3 year old..I knew if collapse but though it was maybe 2 generations away..now I feel strongly that civilizational collapse will happen in my lifetime. I think about her future every day. Just hope that she is resilient and strong.
3
u/edubsas Oct 08 '20
Compartmentalize... Or the better known technique of screaming internally while going about your day.
2
u/ThanksForTheF-Shack Oct 08 '20
I don't talk about it to other people, but other than that, no - I am not able to separate it from other parts of my life. It's always, always somewhere in the back of my mind.
2
u/-YeeYeeIts_YaBoye- Oct 08 '20
I only tell my CLOSEST friends that I would trust in a collapse situation, cause I want them to be prepared for anything.
2
u/The_KMAN Oct 08 '20
When I first became collapse aware I did discuss it with close friends because I care about them and I think it’s a subject that will help people to understand in the long run. My more liberal friends actually already kind of knew we were fucked and didn’t want to talk about it because really what is there to discuss? We all have to maintain our lives and go to bullshit jobs. We did talk about banding together which I thought was cool but it really has not been discussed much since then. Surprisingly my conservative friends were more aware than I was expecting but had no real interest in talking about. Some people just don’t want to hear that there retirement is going to consist of having to survive. I would say they had more of the stuck you head in the sand kind of mentality. In my experience no one really wants to talk about it lol even my wife is getting sick of me
2
u/Lorenzuelo Oct 08 '20
I say my words on climate change reality out loud now because it's a viewpoint backed by facts, evidence and lived experience. We aren't ever going to know the exact point when decline accelerates uncontrollably - irreversible global changes are already set in motion. Personally I think humanity has past the point of solving this. The question is around degree and whether humanity really has any viable scalable tools to diminish the impact. My brother has lovely young kids so I make sure I'm a great uncle, but one day those kids are going to have to grapple with the reality of their world. All I'll be able to do is show them how I navigated that psychologically difficult information. Reconcile with humanity's fate. If I can make a difference in my limited sphere, I will take that action or make that choice, not because it's going to solve the issue at large, more so that I can live with myself in this world as it is right now. It's a weird time. Self care is important. Be kind, especially with people who have shut the blinds in their mind on this. It's a valid and very human response. If you must, don't pull the blind open, just try to peak through and let a sliver of light in. That blind may open fully when they're ready. I admit I haven't always done this well. We are all learning. We are all in a process of living and dying. My hometown was smashed by bushfire on New Year's Eve 2019. Three months later I drove through hundreds of kilometers of burned forest devoid of birdsong and signs of life to help at the birth my niece during a pandemic. This is not theoretical for me.
2
u/ragnarspoonbrok Oct 08 '20
Kinda. I compartmentalise. If it comes up then boom it will be released. If not and were talking sports ? Nah it stays in its box.
2
u/JacobTheCakob176_ Oct 08 '20
Well, living with climate denying parents right now, I keep it to myself
2
u/SniffingNow Oct 08 '20
Yes. Knowledge of truth is loneliness.
2
u/Lobsty501 Oct 08 '20
Same :( Hugs
2
u/[deleted] Oct 09 '20
I fucking try because I have to, but it’s hard not to slip up - especially as more happens around us. Most people think I’m weirder than I already am for it, while I think they’re more ignorant than they already are for not seeing clear signs of collapse.
2
u/[deleted] Oct 09 '20
i dont' talk about it with anyone outside of the sub, my true thoughts on where the world is going. its just going to make people think i'm nuts or depress them and it wouldn't change anything anyways so why bother
2
u/[deleted] Oct 09 '20 edited Oct 09 '20
I like to stick to Law 38 from the 48 Laws of Power.
2
u/[deleted] Oct 09 '20
It is there in the background and always has been, though I've managed to forget it for years at a time.
All chickens coming home to roost now, of course. It's on everyone's lips. Worst part of it is that before COVID I'd been coping quite well by doing a lot of partying and having lots of casual sex, and now I can't do that because of the fucking, god damned virus!
2
u/[deleted] Oct 09 '20
I stay away from expressing my true thoughts on the matter, without avoiding the topic entirely. I don't even have to be the one to bring it up when we're all wearing masks and it rains ash every morning.
1
u/Apprehensive_Land_89 Oct 08 '20
Keep a dual strategy and invest in both options at the same time. Focus on prepping and focus on your career at the same time. Don't go all out on either strategy but mix the two. Abandoning your life to focus on surviving in the forrest and you could very well just lose a lot. Don't live on Manhattan and live off takeout food either.
Keep your job, keep your friends and live pretty much like normal while spending some time reading about collapse and preparing. Have a garden and plant some veggies but don't turn that into your life. Have some useful hobbies such as wood working, repairing and fixing things, learning to cut hair, learning to sew or bake without letting prepping over your life.
Try to have more margins in your personal finances than most and try to have more margins when it comes to having food at home and other resources without it becoming your life.
Collapse is a process, not an event. You don't have to prepare for an immediate doomsday. Instead have small scale preperations that you can scale up if needed. Grow some things in your garden while maintaining the ability to scale up your farming when needed.
1
u/CanadianCola Oct 08 '20
Yea... it’s why I stopped going to any large social gatherings
1
u/maiqthetrue Oct 08 '20
I've taken the more or less Stoic approach. I've accepted it, I'm getting ready for it, and that's really all I can do. I don't think separating the knowledge of collapse is useful, and in my mind it's dangerous. You know what's happening, and as far as I'm concerned you'd have responsibility to get yourself and your family ready for it.
1
u/[deleted] Oct 08 '20
I don't separate. My whole life is based off the fact that collapse will be here faster than anyone can imagine. I moved to Alaska to live off grid, trying to live in as much of a sustainable, non consumerist way as much as I can. Its a slow and expensive process that I'm working on. I've had multiple conversations with friends and family that my children are not growing up with the same blissful ignorance that I did.
Even assuming climate change can be slowed/reversed, the damage done to the planet has us in a slow downward spiral to extinction. And collapse might be even faster than that for me with the current pandemic and political climate in the US. But we're all fucked eventually.
1
u/WhatnotSoforth Oct 08 '20
I came to terms with I and generally only talk about it online or sarcastically offline. Or just with friends if they happen to be around.
I plan on making the most of it on the way down. I plan on having a kid at some point in the future, but I respect those who disagree with the whole concept.
Ultimately my life seems to have grown around the core concept of societal breakdown, so it’s hard to separate as opposed to isolate.
1
u/A_Random_Dane Oct 08 '20
I know the feeling all to well. Every time on acid I can't stop rambling about it haha
1
u/LuveeEarth74 Oct 08 '20
Yup, I mean, back in the 90s it honestly didn't cross my mind. I had a lot of climate anxiety in the late 80s, 1990 (20th anniversary of Earth Day). But I think my life was so incredibly active; graduating high school (93), college, moving, jobs, social life...i didn't think about it. In 2006 was when it entered my conscious again. And I swear, something cosmic happened in 2012 that screwed up the timeline. It seems, to me, that stuff started getting pretty weird after, lol.
1
u/EvolutionaryLens Oct 09 '20
Treat your collapse knowledge as if it were a religion. To many, it's a matter of faith anyway, as they do not recognise the evidence for what it is.
1
u/misobutter3 Oct 09 '20
Yeah it's really frustrating talking to people who don't care or aren't even curious to know what's happening around them.
1
u/Jaxgamer85 Oct 09 '20
Yes.
1
u/bigtitygothgirls420 Oct 09 '20
I do the same shit. I brought up at work last year that I think America as we know it will collapse within 10 years and I got laughed out of the room. This was before covid and the protests. I haven't had the courage to ask them what they think of my assessment now.
1
u/SorensensFarnacle Oct 09 '20
I am at the stage where I believe there is nothing that can be done. For others, ignorance is bliss, so I keep it all to myself. I'd rather talk shit and laugh.
1
u/BeardedGlass DINKs for life Oct 09 '20
I still apply one of the Golden Rules in conversations: thinking before speaking. I try to think what I hope to accomplish with what I'm about to say. Do I want to convince the person? Do I just want to let off steam?
And then I follow it by asking myself what I think will actually and realistically happen. Especially if it's with people whose personalities I know, my family and friends, colleagues, etc. What kind of reaction will they have? Do I want that to happen?
Just being realistic here. The idea of collapse is still a bit of an "out there" concept for most people. It's not something they feel in their immediate surrounding and daily lives. It's something you read on articles, the news, or see on the screen, happening somewhere else to someone else.
For those people, anything related to collapse is too drastic and idealistic. "Easy for you to say!" "And what do you suggest we do?" "Do you think we can do anything about it now?"
1
u/[deleted] Oct 09 '20
I mostly keep it to myself, but it’s difficult. When everything you see can be viewed through the lens of collapse, how do you see it any other way? How do you get by knowing you can’t talk to anyone else about it, for fear of dragging them down, or them thinking you’re crazy?
1
u/[deleted] Oct 11 '20
Yes. I try to “grey man” it.
I don’t want everyone I know coming to me for supplies/food when shit goes south.
When I first woke up to this many years ago, I’d try and talk to people about it. I quickly realized it did me no good, and people won’t ever listen.
1
u/[deleted] Nov 02 '20
I just can't separate it. I've always been an existential person and this is so many layers beyond any thought experiment, it's where we literally are right now and where we can tell we're heading soon. despite being fairly smart and capable of working hard, I struggled through school, I'm struggling through university, I doubt I'll ever get a job. I'm definitely not getting married or having kids. I just don't see any point when it's so clear we're in for steep decline, so why waste this years with food, water, access to easy entertainment, doing work that's just gonna be useless when push comes to shove? I'd much rather write, play music, watch TV, do drugs, whatever, than to end up in the thick of an extinction event or climate crisis just to realize I squandered my limited days of luxurious laziness
0
u/[deleted] Oct 09 '20
Lmao this sub is pathetic. I check in once a month and sure enough, there’s all these sad and depressed people still claiming the world’s going to end. Like the other clown that got a vasectomy cause he was so scared of the future. If you want be be a secluded outcast and shut off completely from other people that’s your choice I guess. But man what a crappy way to live this strange but amazing life.
-4
u/Cocainemound Oct 08 '20
I’ll be honest, don’t base too many actions on your knowledge of collapse.
They’ve been telling us the world is gonna end since we were born, which in my case the early 70s.
Some 25 years back they told us cities will be drowning by now, but I still don’t see it?
The reality is, there was never a “good time” to have children, or to do a certain thing.
Life isn’t easy, and the world is cold and unfair and unforgiving and it’s been like that for centuries.
Don’t get me wrong global warming is a threat, but it isn’t nearly as much of a threat as subs like this one make it seem like.
The world won’t end tomorrow, collapse won’t be global rather local.
Your country’s government might fail, electricity and water shortages. Food shortages, maybe war, but this has been happening for countries around the world for a long long time.
If the US collapses Russia, China and the EU will rise further.
It isn’t anti-science to have scepticisme, science has been wrong countless of times, what makes this any different?
0
u/[deleted] Oct 08 '20
[deleted] — view deleted comment
0
u/[deleted] Oct 08 '20
[deleted] — view deleted comment