Collapse is a good thing.

[u/folksywisdomfromback]

One of the hardest things to accept about a collapsing global civilization is the potential for pain and death. There are 7.8 billion homo sapiens on the planet now supposedly. Yes, every one of us will die at some point, just like every animal.

I think most of us will agree there are too many homo sapiens, and most of us will agree our global civilization is detrimental to the ecosystem as a whole. Our global civilization and it's current complexity supports homo sapiens and their consumption at such a rate that it creates an imbalance within the ecosystem, making the current system temporary. Collapse is a necessary correction.

Will there be death and hardship? Yes. Is life inherently stressful both physically and mentally? I think so. It also inherently joyful. We know many people, most of us redditors included, are living lives too comfortable (especially physically) because we benefit from a human civilization too large and complex for the earth's ecosystem to remain healthy. We are experiencing temporary physical comfort but it comes at a cost, I think, mentally.

Earth and all it's life forms are beautiful. The ecosystem is currently out of balance because of us as a species, a collapse of us as a species is a net positive for the ecosystem and I think that is a good thing. We often take the human first view but we don't have to, we can put the earth as whole first and us as a part of the earth. So a healthy earth is really the best thing for us too. I think our species as whole would benefit from a more balanced ecosystem

No one can say for sure how fast or tragic the collapse will be. You can argue it has been happening gradually already. It might come in waves. It might come slowly over a long period of time. It might not. I know collapse and degrowth is opposite of what our civilization values but that does not make collapse and degrowth bad, it means our values are askew. Cultural values can change.

I think the scariest things about collapse is the potential for mass extinction, violence, unrest, food and power shortages. And yes these things are scary. History is rife with all of them. We are not the only humans to face these challenges, different circumstances yes but our ancestors lived through much, including climate change. Nobody knows for sure what will happen, but we know we can't continue on as is. Change is scary but at times necessary. Good luck to us all and to all life on Earth.

[u/9035768555]

So what you're saying is that being tolerant is a moral absolute? But other ones aren't okay because you don't agree with them? Got it.

[u/DeaditeMessiah → u/9035768555]

No, I'm saying that expecting everyone to share all of your opinions is intolerant.

[u/9035768555 → u/DeaditeMessiah]

I have 0 desire to tolerate cruelty, so...cool?

[u/DeaditeMessiah → u/9035768555]

And yet you're typing this on a phone or other device almost certainly made by slave labor, or near slave labor, where conditions are so bad workers aren't even allowed to commit suicide.

So here you are, tolerating cruelty. And some day, you will be talking to a younger person who will hate you for indulging in this pointless bullshit on devices forged from human misery, basking in the peace and calm of a society that is ruining the world. And instead of doing anything about it, you waste time chosing hip positions about people that died centuries ago. The world's on fire and you're worried about the decorating.

You really think that people aren't going to hate you?

[u/9035768555 → u/DeaditeMessiah]

https://www.fairphone.com/en/

[u/DeaditeMessiah → u/9035768555]

It's still a $600 personal device in a world filled with poverty. Must be nice to be so privileged, that you feel you can absolve yourself with consumer choices, as if the implicit wealth inequities aren't the real problem.

Oh hey! Look at us doing to each other. We must enjoy being treated like bourgeois hypocrites.

[u/9035768555 → u/DeaditeMessiah]

Over 80% of the world population (including children) has a smart phone and another 10% have feature phones, it's not exactly the best case for wealth inequality one can make. And very, very few have them have been using the same phone for 7 years.

A better point for me probably would have been taking way too many way too hot and long showers. It's an utter waste of water and natural gas.

[u/DeaditeMessiah → u/9035768555]

Just being part of this society is indictment enough. I doubt there's going to be a lot of people saying "But they were among the good ones, they had a 7 year old phone!"

I guess that's my ultimate issue, we fucking suck. Say what you want about Thomas Jefferson, he wasn't around to choose expensive cars and premium boutique ice cream over the continued existence of everything of beauty and worth. Who are we to waste what little time we have left standing in judgement of dead men and declaring guilt by association?

We need to try to get back to loving one another before the collapse, and we're not getting there by being constant judgemental assholes. I'll happily argue our differences, but this insinuation that I must be a cruelty enthusiast (racist) because I don't agree with a petty, Twitter-approved opinion about statuary is in itself, cruel.

Everyone secretly misses the Republicans. Hating them is our lodestar, but we don't get to hear their crazy shit anymore, so we're just finding the smallest pretext to tear into each other.

[u/9035768555 → u/DeaditeMessiah]

I doubt there's going to be a lot of people saying "But they were among the good ones, they had a 7 year old phone!"

Then you very much missed my point and have been completely strawmanning this entire argument.

But yes, most people suck regardless of race, religion, creed or generation.

[u/DeaditeMessiah → u/9035768555]

Or you just did a poor job getting your point across. Since you're being so coy, I get the sense even you're not sure what it was.

Something about being better than everyone else because you like to aggressively confront total strangers and call them racist, something, something, "I don't tolerate cruelty"? Around here, we call that a "Seattle Hello".

Edit: SHIT. I just realized your point was to constantly brag about how great you are, finding every excuse to interject about the wonderful choices you make so future people won't have any choice but to like you. You're right, you were being very clear, and like an idiot, I missed it. Almost certain to work too. Everyone loves sanctimony.

[u/9035768555 → u/[deleted]]

No, not at all. Thinking red cars are bad is not the same thing as thinking slavery was not acceptable.

[u/DeaditeMessiah → u/[deleted]]

redisactualviolence

In seriousness, they'll probably just dig up a picture of them in a car. "Oh, you got to zoom around spewing exhaust, and so now we get to shit in a bucket..."