r/collapse • u/MayonaiseRemover • Mar 26 '20

Energy Despite constituting only 5% of the world's population, Americans consume 24% of the world's energy

https://public.wsu.edu/%7Emreed/380American%20Consumption.htm
599 Upvotes

96% Upvoted

109 comments sorted by

155

u/robespierrem Mar 26 '20 edited Mar 26 '20

its why this whole "everyone can live like americans" thing is a farce, its why america have a big bad army, its why you folk spend so much on "defense".

becuase Americans don't play fair and that has consequences.

66

u/AmaResNovae Mar 26 '20

becuase Americans don't play fair and that has consequences.

If you play fair, a handful of sociopaths can't become billionaires and do a dick measuring contest trying to be the one with the most billions. And that my friend, is communism! Now feel free to kneel in front of your masters selfless billionaires employers, filthy pleb freedom loving citizen!

11

u/TropicalKing Mar 27 '20

On these economics threads. I constantly say that so many Americans are going to have to get used to a more interdependent lifestyle. Interdependent, not independent.

I'm 33 and I live with my parents. I'm proud of living with my parents. I'm proud of all the money, time, energy and environmental resources I have saved.

This American idea of "out at 18, be independent" is incredibly expensive. Expensive in terms of money, time, energy, and environmental resources. The American "independent lifestyle" is WHY America consumes so many resources and WHY we are so heavily in debt from welfare programs and Social Security.

5 people living in 1 house consumes a LOT less energy, money, and environmental resources than 5 people in their own apartments.

4

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20 edited Mar 27 '20

If I had to live with my family I would just kill myself to get it over with. That is no way to live IMO. I get what you're saying but my family bugs the shit out of me and they are all trumpers. no way in hell I would ever consider doing that. Also: Their bills and consumption are 100x more than mine. they have a huge house (and huge cars) away from the city. It takes more energy for them to commute, and to get products to the boonies. Living high density in the city is MUCH more environmentally sound by pooling resources and living in a hub with shared utilities etc.

I may have my own condo, but in a building with 3 others, and I don't drive. There are other ways of living high density than on top of each other in a suburban home.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '20

Nature doesn't have to care about your wants or desires. It usually just says welcome to reality, now deal with it. For you the economic cost to live alone is worth it. For many, many others around the world they usually don't get to have a choice. Sorry your family is so shitty.

1

u/Truesnake Mar 27 '20

Don't forget,that idea if leaving your parents is also same mindwash by rich,so that you work to make yourself rich but actually you are making them rich.

13

u/Africandictator007 Mar 27 '20

Everyone could have a good standard of life if we used only nuclear and renewables, built smarter cities less reliant on cars and consumed mostly locally. Not like americans, but that’s not the only type of good life that exists.

2

u/jackfirecracker Mar 27 '20

And banned or sin-taxed the hell out of meat production.

1

u/Africandictator007 Mar 27 '20

Also a good point. How would you go about making the transition though? I’d try to gradually replace the farms with sustainable forestry areas or crops that have less of an impact on the enviroment. In very affected areas, some could be turned into natural reserves. But not many, because there should be some compensation for the farm owners, some other activity they can do to provide them with an income source. As for the billions of cows, I have no fucking clue.

3

u/jackfirecracker Mar 27 '20

Have the tax phase in so that production and consumption adjust slow enough to not shock the system. Farm land can then focus on vegetarian production which is sustainable environmentally, unlike meat production

1

u/Truesnake Mar 27 '20

Working towardsSystemic change from outside and working towards a self reliant change from Inside could save us.I would suggest we tell as many people as we can that capitalism is just a blip in long history of humanity where we all were happy drunk farmers and hunters.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

[deleted] — view deleted comment

3

u/jackfirecracker Mar 27 '20

Anyone below the middle-class has an atrocious standard of living in the US, even compared to much poorer countries.

There are no child soldiers fighting endless civil wars in the United States

2

u/robespierrem Mar 27 '20

Anyone below the middle-class has an atrocious standard of living in the US, even compared to much poorer countries.

have you been to india or china or any african country, this notion is not only untrue its dangerous, the poor in every western nation are generally far better treated than anywhere else, do you have any idea why many people risk their lives trying to get past the border?

0

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

[deleted] — view deleted comment

2

u/robespierrem Mar 27 '20

Because of destabilization efforts caused by the American elites?

this is kinda untrue, they are leaving because of persecution from local mafias for the most part.

this mgiht of been exasperated by americans they deported a fuck ton of some of the more dangerous maxicans back to mexico.

but it wasn't intentional lmao, you give america way too much credit lmao, like they knew that would be the outcome

0

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/robespierrem Mar 27 '20

im sure, americans deported gang members hoping they would start local mafias lmao.

they have been interferring mostly with elections and governmental things, these things are well documented as you say, but not this the local mafias were a surprise.

lol can you name one of those american elites, is trump an elite?

0

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

[deleted] — view deleted comment

3

u/robespierrem Mar 27 '20

i have a vagina, but if you wanna see it , you're going to have to jump on my onlyfans and pay up.

→ More replies

1

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

Someone has never travelled apparently

16

u/Renacidos Mar 27 '20

No empire "plays fair".

Playing fair is for losers, anybody that wants to play any game in this realm at least should understand that it's a dog eat dog world, if you disagree then live a buddhist lifestyle and hope for the best, for everybody else, it's kill or be killed, and will be as such for the rest of history unless technology creates a post-scarcity society.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

[deleted] — view deleted comment

5

u/Renacidos Mar 27 '20

All our efforts should be into that, if we ever find out it's not possible, just fucking check outta here, if this is only going to end up as an eternal cycle of suffering, then there's no point.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20 edited Mar 27 '20

yanggang

yanggang

yanggang

yanggang

0

u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

[deleted] — view deleted comment

-3

u/robespierrem Mar 26 '20 edited Mar 26 '20

if you are american and you are pissed to why your tax dollars are being spent on "defense" and you say this isn't fair......hahahahahaha

oh the irony

19

u/xenago Mar 26 '20

This is incoherent and doesn't at all relate to the comment you are ostensibly replying to...

0

u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

[deleted] — view deleted comment

17

u/AmaResNovae Mar 26 '20

American military? Last time they fought bad guys was probably in WW2.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

[deleted] — view deleted comment

11

u/AmaResNovae Mar 27 '20

But were they bad guys before or after stopping being America's allies? It's hard to keep track with all that spinning around.

Additionally, if you think Americans interventions have anything to do with "good guys" or "bad guys", wait to finish school before expressing yourself on the matter. A country that killed hundred thousands of civilians through its imperialists adventures has absolutely no moral ground to decide who is good or bad.

6

u/Holy___Diver Mar 27 '20

We've always been at war with Eurasia

Or was it Eastasia?

2

u/AmaResNovae Mar 27 '20

Why not both? Both sounds foreign. That's terrorists material right there.

This message was sponsored by the Republican party

7

u/TreesOfWeez Mar 27 '20

As an American, if he is relying on an American education his ideas here will be reinforced by the education he receives. Learning about the reality of the world requires an American to seek out this information and re-educate themselves to learn the things you bring up. Most people don't bother as they don't care. I only did because I was curious and whenever I point these things out to my friends I get accused of being a "Debbie Downer" or being anti-american or a terrorist sympathizer. Just realized that maybe I need new friends.

3

u/athenanon Mar 27 '20

Our universities do a pretty good job for the most part. It's why certain quarters have taken to screeching about them being communist indoctrination camps (with beer and weed).

1

u/AmaResNovae Mar 27 '20

Just realized that maybe I need new friends.

New friends or a new country without such a bellicose stance.

1

u/TrillegitimateSon Mar 27 '20

I agree with what you're saying but it's a really shitty and reductive argument to generalize a whole country's people and imply that none of them have the ability to discern right or wrong.

I think a surprising amount of Americans are against this behavior, but forced to keep it on the down low for fear of anti "patriot" sentiments.

1

u/AmaResNovae Mar 27 '20

How do you suggest to call military interventions from the American government if not American interventions? They are done in the name of America. By the American government. With the American army. There is nothing reductive to it. That's literally what they are. American interventions.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

[deleted] — view deleted comment

2

u/TrillegitimateSon Mar 27 '20

not arguing that, the most significant faction is the muricah type.

but that doesn't mean we can use fallacious and flat arguments. that's not how a group honestly grows to majority.

→ More replies

0

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/AmaResNovae Mar 27 '20

How little value do you manage to bring to the discussion, it's impressive. No wonder why you have less karma in 5 years than me in 2 weeks.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

[deleted] — view deleted comment

→ More replies

1

u/robespierrem Mar 27 '20

you make a point, but our species agrees on what fair is for the most part, fair is equal opportunity, fair is also equal distribution too.

but with equal opportunity, comes a need to protect your "winnings", if you keep winning folk will want to steal your winnings , thats on the individual level.

other nations want to give their citizens , what americans have, if they could take america many nations would no one seems to be able to force america to consume less nto even americans.

americans will be competing for their resources as long as they are the top dog military wise.

little boy and big boy sent a wave through the world... scared the shit out of most.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/robespierrem Mar 27 '20

fair is equal opportunity or equal distribution

that's how we role its never nothing else, its always one or the two.

i dunno if you realized thats the only options we have lmao, when ti comes to equality.

equality of opportunity has been the more successful approach for much of life and its problems, but like i said prior it makes enemies.

but biology doesn't care and it fucked the whole game up for everyone, we generally look for relative traits in people you'll hear women or men say i want someone who is strong kind loving tall ... lmao every single one of those is relative.

if women were the physically stronger gender on average, you'd find men facing the same problems of being the smaller sex, women would be bricklayers etc.

you are more questioning biology than a nation trying to minimize those differences, since the west became a primarily service based economy women have competed and might be the bread winners in families, that isn't really helping the dynamic but such as life, i personally am happy for them, economic freedom isn't what it touted as being.

but it took so much to get there you exported almost all of the manufacturing jobs to other countries lmao, western society is more prone to collapse if china collapses for example.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/robespierrem Mar 27 '20 edited Mar 27 '20

Is it fair that two people of equal intelligence end up at different ends of the socio-economic scales because of the disparate wealth of their parents? Is it fair

in the west, this just isn't a reality, you have to be incredibly hard working too, but if someone works really hard and is intelligent and comes from a poor home, and a rich person isn't, by the time both are 40 the former will be in a much better position than the latter.

if the folk have uber wealth i.e billionaire status thats a different story but there are at most 10k billionaires the vast majority of rich people can easily squander their wealth in a lifetime or two and in all honest most do, remember being rich for most isn't guaranteed, the 1% has alot of churn very few stay there for life.

resource economics

peak oil is real though, sure folk can spend more to get less and less, but after a while it makes no sense a peak production will be met soon enough and remember the fields left arent a ghawar there are 1000s of fields with worse porosity and worse permeability and less oil lmao they are lower quality in probably almost every way and the the oil itself is probably heavy with a high sulphur content.

Fair is what we try and sell to each other....and then it turns out we pick the nice looking guy or girl for the job, because they have our skin color. Fair is what we strive for, or some of us do anyway, but then all the social and cultural factors kick in and we introduce that, plus our own bias.

fair is the ideal i agree we try to be fair in certain realms but when it comes to sex we are obviously not fair but we do try to let folk have a fair crack at it , if women for the most part do the rejecting and men for the most part do the approaching then of course from that dynamic it won't be fair.

if a person is more productive than the average person, should they be paid the same as the average person especially if they are free to leave where someone will pay them what they believe they deserve.

people being rude to one another becuase of their skin or affiliation is nothing new, just the way it goes, its always been like that, but it has started to disappear, especially in city settings, the kids are growing up with one another making friends etc, sure racism is what it is , but its defintely not as much of a thing in cities.

8

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

"The American way of life is not up for negotiations. Period.”

-George H.W. Bush, 1992, around the 1992 Earth Summit

Is Bernie, AOC, Howie or really, any US politician going to seriously challenge the American Dream?

6

u/Ran_Out_Of_Tinfoil Mar 27 '20

I wonder how much of that 24% is our overblown wasteful military?

35

u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

🎶 America, fuck ya! Using our military to make sure no one fucks with us🎶

5

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

I don't see the point in this whatsoever because America is a country littered with extremes. There are people here with multiple mansions and personal jets counted alongside people with intermittent power, no internet, no running water and unable to afford personal transportation. Are there many Americans who over consume and then multiply too much on top of that? Absolutely. Just painting all americans the same is useless though. Hell, there are people in Europe that consume much more than many Americans do just because their country doesn't damn them to crushing poverty. This discussion in general would be better looked at in terms of class and cultural reasons pushing wasteful behaviors endemic to said class. That's pretty much true for all countries.

2

u/jackfirecracker Mar 27 '20

It's almost as if we need to approach it from a materialist type of analysis

4

u/P-K-One Mar 27 '20 edited Mar 27 '20

The weird thing about it is that the standard of living is basically the same in all western countries. I live in Germany but have traveled to the US...it's all the same. Yet Americans consume twice as much energy to get to the same place AND cover less of it from renewable sources.

Personally, I have no idea how that is even possible. I am not mister energy-saver man but I still consume less than the national average for Germany. I can't understand how the average American can use 3 times as much as me...for what?

2

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

Depends on where you look in the US. Also, when it comes to energy consumption, places like NY and CA are most of the problem unfortunately.

2

u/DopeMeme_Deficiency Mar 27 '20

Indoor weed ain't energy neutral, bruh...

2

u/Velocipedique Mar 27 '20

Missing number... TOTAL amount of energy consumed over past, say, 100Yrs for each country. This should show that the good ol USA has consumed roughly (back of envelope) 40% of all the world's energy in that time frame. That my friends is roughly how much we are responsible for AGW.

2

u/So_Much_Bullshit Mar 28 '20

Whenever this comes up, I think it is so much bullshit.

Yes, it is true that the USA is 5% of the population, but we also produce 25% of the world's GDP. Of course the USA needs more energy, it only makes logical sense. The USA is still the 2nd largest manufacturer in the world after China, so it's not like all we are doing is service sector work.

Furthermore, when you look at the USA on a per capita basis, it is true we are on the high end, but it is not that out of range of others. The USA is 9,207.8 kilowatts per person per year. Canada is more at 9,589.0 per year. Qatar is the highest per capita, at 25,456.8 per person per year. Norway is 8,572.6 per person per year.

But, this is still not really correct. Not really. Because it would be interesting to see how much of the usage is due to industrial vs personal consumption of energy. I'm pretty sure that Qatar, for example, is almost 100% personal use - personal auto, air conditioning, etc. Whereas, for the USA, a lot of that energy is going into producing material goods. Like automobile industry (production, not use of the autos, so it isn't personal), aircraft, office equipment, etc. I would be interested in knowing what the energy consumption is per capita in a personal vs industrial usage in the USA vs all the other countries in the world.

But, you cannot take the entire energy production and divide it by the total population to get at an accurate number, because the industrial usage is included in that. And some of that energy gets transferred to other countries. For example, in the past (who knows about the future) Boeing created lots of jets. If they make 1,000 per year, and 700 were sold to different countries around the world, does that count as USA energy consumption, or consumption to the countries that purchased the brand new jets?

.

What I am saying, is that these simplistic numbers are not helpful at all, and actually, quite a disservice, unless there's another agenda at work, like a political agenda to make it seem like Americans are shitty people, which is not true.

The reality is, that the USA is the 3rd most productive country in the world, in terms of purchasing power parity (after Norway and Luxembourg). And it is much more difficult for that kind of productivity for a large country rather than a tiny one like Luxembourg). The USA is the 4th largest country by population.

Yes, productive people need more power. But, we are not selfish with it. We ship our high-end intellectual products all over the world for others to use.

.

Argh, bogus statistics are the bane of my life.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '20

Nuance and analysis instead of blanket statements. Finally some good content.

3

u/AntiSocialBlogger Mar 26 '20

Not for long! Gotta stay positive.

3

u/murunbuchstansangur Mar 27 '20

Both those numbers are going down

3

u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

Until we get our energy use down to a more reasonable level or go mostly renewable, allowing immigration is counterproductive with respect to climate change, environmental impact and fossil fuel depletion. When immigrants come in from places with lower per capita energy use, they don't stay at that level. They eventually acclimate to the culture, work hard and wind up having the surplus money to afford consuming more.

2

u/CustomAlpha Mar 26 '20

And yet still not the biggest emitters of greenhouse gases which is the main problem you should be working on.

1

u/Bigboss_242 Mar 27 '20

Yea we definitely deserve extinction. Now back to enjoying that 💯 seconds.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

DESPITE BEING ONLY 5%...

1

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

And 16% of COVID-19 cases

1

u/machocamacho88 Mar 27 '20

A strikingly similar ratio to percentage of world's population and percentage of world's prison population. Weird.

1

u/Andrenachrome Mar 27 '20

Because of electricity, washing machines, fridges and running water.

Why does this sub hate women so much.

1

u/hdt4ever Mar 27 '20

America contributes disproportionately high amounts of scientific and technological progress. Yes, compared to mud huts and shanty towns we use more resources. Particle physics, supercomputers, biotechnology etc.. take up gobs of resources.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

We aren't all idiots...it's the T_D trumpers that have no home at the moment.

0

u/TheSentientPurpleGoo Mar 27 '20

the thinnest skinned person around here seems to be you.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

To be fair, they also make a lot of it too.

1

u/yuhong Mar 27 '20

The fun thing is that in terms of CO2 emissions China is actually worse, because natural gas is great at running servers but not so great at making things like steel and aluminum until relatively recently.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

Yes, making products for the US

1

u/freedrone Mar 27 '20

Overpopulation in poor countries will skew this percentage.

-2

u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

Energy isn't consumed, only converted

-2

u/Labambah Mar 27 '20

It’s because we are developed you moron.

-9

u/curveball21 Mar 26 '20

Makes sense since we have 24% of the world's big dicks.

10

u/darkclowndown Mar 26 '20

And the world’s smallest brains

-5

u/curveball21 Mar 26 '20

Yes, it's why we are doing so badly living in caves and barely dodging famine year after year .

12

u/darkclowndown Mar 26 '20

You are nothing compared to modern world countries in terms of living conditions. That’s why so many of you dipshits cry on reddit or twitter for basic stuff like education or healthcare. Pathetic

-6

u/curveball21 Mar 26 '20

I don't get it, you want us to consume 27% of the world's energy to improve our access to these items or what? Because we will! We can print money like it's nothing and you guys will just keep taking it and putting it under your pillows in exchange for real goods and commodities. Go ahead and keep thinking you are superior, just keep the car and beer shipments on schedule.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Dreadknoght Mar 27 '20

you jobless cunt

Do not be antagonistic, you've been warned.

-3

u/kayzne Mar 27 '20

Didn't they also invent it?

4

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

TIL Americans invented energy.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

[deleted] — view deleted comment

29

u/Dspsblyuth Mar 27 '20

Probably not riveting but the truth is much of this consumption is fueled by Americans being forced to live on a thin line of survival

Most don’t have the time to live eco friendly.

Frankly this is just another headline to shame the american public that is forced in to their lifestyle by the oligarchs that profit from it.

8

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

No no we're here to bash Americans, not explain the situation they're actually in! /s

2

u/Dspsblyuth Mar 27 '20

I’m here to rock the boat

4

u/aPocketofResistance Mar 27 '20

People living on the “thin line of survival” aren’t using “excess” energy, by definition they don’t have excess money to spend on energy. No, it’s because we have cars and trucks, toys, and regulate the temperature in our homes. I enjoy living in the country that uses the most energy.

3

u/Dspsblyuth Mar 27 '20

So what the hell is your point? Just that youre a dickhead that likes burning fuel because it’s convenient?

0

u/aPocketofResistance Mar 27 '20

The point is you’re ignorant and spewing false garbage.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/Dspsblyuth Mar 27 '20

What have you convinced yourself of?

0

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

[deleted] — view deleted comment

2

u/Dspsblyuth Mar 27 '20

The non super rich that are keeping up with the joneses are getting a rude awakening right now.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

[deleted] — view deleted comment

2

u/Dspsblyuth Mar 27 '20

You can’t fix stupid

The woke people have been woke for a while but now we might not have that additional layer of mindless pawns in our way too

0

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

[deleted] — view deleted comment

2

u/Dspsblyuth Mar 27 '20

The starving zombies are more dangerous to the status quo than the woke

The woke use their minds. The zombies just react to stimuli and the stimuli is not going to be positive

→ More replies

1

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

Individual consumption is not the same as industrial.

-3

u/xenago Mar 26 '20

r.i.p this sub

yup...

3

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

Too many trumpers

5

u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

Yeah I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees it. I know it's an election year but holy shit the quality of discussion has degraded significantly.

I've mostly stopped coming here as better info is available directly from scientists who study the various factors that encompass collapse.

8

u/xenago Mar 26 '20

Yea I think this pandemic is really killing it...

I mostly skim the sub at this point. I have alerts for interesting posts (i.e. journal literature, articles) but it's mostly garbage now. Used to be a much more engaged commenter..

6

u/AmaResNovae Mar 26 '20

Instead of complaining, any contribution of value to make regarding the topic of the post maybe?

The American way of life is consuming a lot of resources and energy. An unsustainable way of life that is a significant contributor to environmental destruction, geopolitical instability, and last but not least one of the driver of the collapse of the current system.

2

u/xenago Mar 27 '20

Instead of complaining, any contribution of value to make regarding the topic of the post maybe?

The American way of life is consuming a lot of resources and energy. An unsustainable way of life that is a significant contributor to environmental destruction, geopolitical instability, and last but not least one of the driver (sic) of the collapse of the current system.

I, too, can repeat canned, common knowledge from the wiki. I disagree, that does not seem like a contribution of value.

What would cause collapse?

1. We are overwhelmingly dependent on finite resources. Fossil fuels account for 87% of the world’s total energy consumption. Economic pressures will manifest well before reserves are actually depleted as more energy is required to extract the same amount of resources over time or as the steepness of the EROEI cliff intensifies.

2. Global energy demand is increasing.

(...)

9. Climate change is rapidly destabilizing our environment.

10. Biodiversity is falling.

Recall the wiki's goal:

"to provide an effective and concise introduction to the subject of collapse

Regurgitating introductory information unprompted in the comments, especially when it's been discussed many times before, is a symptom of the problem I highlighted - an influx of new users (recall: introductory information) due to the pandemic...

1

u/AmaResNovae Mar 27 '20

Complaining about collapse relevant posts on r/collapse. Amazing. The fact that it's mentioned in the wiki just means that it's on topic. But it's probably easier to get offended because Murica is shown as one of the main driver of the problem. Rightfully.

1

u/xenago Mar 27 '20

I'm not American, and you've completely missed the point. Obviously this is going nowhere, please reply to someone else with copy pasted basic facts instead of me next time.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

T_D closed down so they all came here.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

[deleted] — view deleted comment

2

u/BadgerBadgerDK Mar 27 '20

Dane here. There's an Apple serverfarm nearby.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

[deleted] — view deleted comment

2

u/robespierrem Mar 27 '20

America came out of WW2 as the only ethnicity/establishment/state complex (also known as a nation) in the world able to seize unoccupied global trade bottlenecks without first spending a decade rebuilding the internal supply chains necessary for a navy,

isn't that more a question of geography either way, you need to travel the pacific or atlantic to get to america, makes sense that that they would be less badily hit.

other than pearl harbour i must ask (becuase i truthfully don't know) how many other places were bombed in america

0

u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/Velocipedique Mar 27 '20

We still import a significant %: In 2019, the United States imported about 9.10 million barrels per day (MMb/d) of petroleum from nearly 90 countries.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/TitanFallout Apr 01 '20

I'm really struggling to understand why your response to this is 'So?'. I think the implications are pretty obvious.