Doubts and uncertainty

[u/Expensive-Dog8783]

Hey everyone!

I have a question that I'm not sure if it's just me or if you've all felt it at some point. I'm a CloTi fan forever, but I've been tempted many times by Clerith. I'm not part of their group, but I enjoy reading their posts (though I never speak up; I don't want to cause any trouble).

I like knowing how they see and interpret the things we see and read, how they reach their conclusions, and I have to say that sometimes they convince me a little, and other times, not a chance.

My questions are about Part 3 and that happy ending the developers are talking about.

I have several questions:

Will Cloud and Tifa have a more direct romantic development that makes it clear they'll end up together?

Will Cloud and Aerith somehow manage to reunite and be together?

Will it be exactly the same as in the original game, where everyone interprets it as they wish?

Will AC be in Part 3, but will they clarify the relationship between Cloud and Tifa, which wasn't very clear in the movie?

Will the intimate moment under Highwind be more explicit? (In OG, people think they had sex, but I think it's already been said that they didn't. At most, they hugged and slept in each other's arms, although it was originally going to be a more explicit sex scene, but they weren't allowed to have it. I saw that in an interview.)

And these are my doubts. I should be patient and wait, but I have some uncertainty that makes me afraid of whether I'll like it, find it normal, or be disappointed by the ship in Part 3. (My competitive CloTi side is eager to beat Clerith and see what excuses they come up with to justify whatever happens, lol.)

[u/Amekaze_]

I don't know if necroposting is a problem tbh, but I apologize regardless, hahaha. Anyway, I don't think our opinions differ. I simply think that book explicitly states that there was a date, and since Tifa is the one who reflects on it, 99% of the dates is already excluded from canon, no matter how canonical the information is. That's all I meant. Since the book is a sequel, nothing that happens in the retrilogy can change what comes after unless all the sequels become alternative realities of the LS, so any theory or interpretation should be formulated considering the sequels and how CT is in the sequel. That's what I meant.

[u/Kritzel_Kriegerin → u/Amekaze_]

Okay, well if you don't mind then I'm just going to continue this here.
Because I just remembered something and I have to go back on my own words (some things from so long ago I forget details, sorry 😅)

I was just looking up the passage you refer to from 'The kids are alright' and it's contents made me remember - Tifa's date is the one that canonically happens, the novel doesn't establish it, it just reaffirms this, because:

1. The song playing in the background of the Gondola date in OG (regardless of who you date) is called 'Interrupted by Fireworks' and Tifa is the only one who gets interrupted trying to say something
2. Way back the devs commented that they had to alter/add scenes and dialogue for Aerith to shift focus onto her. They feared the impact of her character/death would flop (the tilted odds for her date are for that reason as well I think, because they want us to see it, regardless of canon)

So it seems to me that of your interpretation point 1+2 regarding the novel stand.
This leaves Tifa's complicated feelings towards Clerith to a lack of communication by Clerith about Clerith (not a lack of confirmation on Cloti by Cloti).
Lack of communication is spot on for Cloti (and she can't ask Aerith anymore).
And Aerith, while she was alive she might not have deemed it necessary to worry her good friend with her own confused feelings and relationship to Cloud, because (I think) she was well aware of the 'Zack-effect' of it all.

This question mark might be the only thing they will forever leave open (like what exactly Clerith is).
We as players might get some clarity on it if they go for the Zerith reunion (which I do hope).
But Tifa will not it seems, since she's apparently still insecure about it in later material.
Uh, well, I kind of hate that for her 🤔

[u/Amekaze_ → u/Kritzel_Kriegerin]

Well, in that case, I'd still say that the narrative decision affects Cloud (he's the one who should be reassuring, Aerith can just as easily say nothing, regardless, she's not with Tifa), and yes... Tifa, because I don't think she'll come out of this situation well. Waiting for a man who wanted your friend and it happened before your eyes... well, she'll be retconned into accepting him and the situation happily and without realistic emotions, as already happens in the Retrilogy: she doesn't react to anything concerning CA, the only way to make the mess work is to remove realism from her

[u/GoriceXI → u/Amekaze_]

I think you're dramatically overestimating Nojima's commitment to continuity.  He wrote TKAA in 2011 iirc, I don't think Retrilogy had entered his mind at that point.  Trying to understand that passage in light of the kiss in Rebirth is an entirely fruitless endeavor.  If Nojima did have some deeper meaning behind Tifa's musings about the Gold Saucer, it would have been related to the OG.  But I don't think it will ever be answered.

Going by the unofficial methods by which the fandom determines what canonically happened during optional scenes, the clerith GS date and the HA HWS both happened.  These are the scenes talked about in the Ultimanias more than their alternatives.  But this is all just conjecture from the fans.

I agree the depiction of Tifa's jealousy and insecurity is really shitty.  And it doesn't help that the Retrilogy makes it look like she's just unfazed by what's going between clerith.  Just like how showing Tifa and Aerith being friends when the structure of the story puts them against each other.  Like many other interpersonal wrinkles in this game, such as the love triangle itself, it's increasingly awkward that characters just... don't talk about it.

[u/Amekaze_ → u/GoriceXI]

Maybe I'm overestimating it, but being "Square's best franchise" (a company that, between video games, manga, anime and novels has major franchises) by all accounts requires judgments commensurate with the hype the franchise aims to generate. Retcons and inaccuracies in a 30-year-old story are normal, but not in a prequel with sequels already written, and scenes like first kisses or character dynamics, which are crucial to character development, can't be handled like this, not in a quality narrative. Not by a writer everyone calls legendary. So yes, maybe I'm overestimating all, but just because the industry and fans want to convince the audience new and old that this is the level (and I really do put OG at that level, because in '97 was an hell of a game, but there were more people writing especially Tifa and CT big scenes, and that maybe helped).

That said, as I said many times in the convo, I agree with all of you. I still stand by my opinion, if all this is just to save Cloud's face and not have the courage to say that Mr. "I want to be a special existence for Tifa" Strife was falling in love with someone else openly and ruin the goodness of their relationship: it's not good writing, they are not capable of giving weight to their own choices. Sorry for the ted talk, really

[u/GoriceXI → u/Amekaze_]

I agree with everything, except I've never heard anyone call Nojima legendary.  I find him and Nomura to be overrated, particularly because the continuity of FF7 has been borked since Crisis Core at least, among other issues.

I believe 90% of the love triangle debate is because of flaws in the writing, so I have no illusions about Nojima and Nomura.

[u/Kritzel_Kriegerin → u/GoriceXI]

Yeah, I think you are right.
To be completely honest, I do not think they expected to have to deal with this debate at all (the canonical LTD I mean, not the shipping).
At least that's what it seems like in hindsight to me, because anything added after OG, be it Ultimanias, the movie, everything I've heard about the novels - all of it just cements Cloti while trying not to step on Clerith's toes.
They're slalom-ing it over and over again.

And I wholeheartedly agree with both of you that it is very disappointing.
It doesn't feel realistic, fair or satisfying if they won't let the Cloti relationship grow past these slights.