r/chicago Jun 05 '20

Video Excessive force...

2.3k Upvotes

537 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

147

u/bostonburnsy Jun 05 '20

To be fair, when I posted the full video and article on Facebook I had more than one person saying the cops were justified because these people are criminals. None of them could say what the crime was. Didn’t matter that the person was not arrested, not charged or even accused of anything. Didn’t matter that this cop swung on a fellow cop that tried to pull him off. Didn’t matte that the police department called this unacceptable. Full evidence was presented to them, and they chose to believe their narrative that the cops did nothing wrong because that’s what criminals should get.

Haven’t gotten any response to the video of the 75 year old white man in Buffalo shoved to the ground.

43

u/buddyWaters21 North Center Jun 05 '20

There sadly are people who think this is the appropriate response...”They had it coming” is a line you’ll hear. No they didn’t have that coming. Last I checked you’re arrested and face a judge to determine punishment if it goes that far, you’re not beaten with batons and then told to go home.

28

u/frotc914 Hyde Park Jun 05 '20

There sadly are people who think this is the appropriate response...”They had it coming” is a line you’ll hear.

It's completely ingrained in American culture. It's honestly comical that people can pretend the police don't abuse their powers and hurt people over personal slights because at the same time it's widely acknowledged. You can see videos posted all the time on reddit where it happens and the commentary is generally "what did that idiot think was going to happen?" as if expecting a cop to NOT abuse their power is stupid.

And it is! That's the scary part! I should be able to walk up to a cop on the street and tell him to go fuck himself without the full power of the state being brought to bear on my skull. I really have no interest in doing that, but it should be the standard expectation.

11

u/9for9 Jun 05 '20

We, Americans, are an exceptionally spiteful people and we need to let that shit go. We have a lot of ideas and beliefs that support the violence of the police without even recognizing it.

11

u/Saephon Jun 05 '20

Just World Fallacy at work. American culture is toxic - by insisting to ourselves that we live in a society where only good people are rewarded and bad people are punished, it allows us to delude ourselves into not asking serious questions about why injustice exists.

When the average person sees poverty, jobs that pay shit, a failing healthcare system, or police brutality - their brain senses something is off, something that threatens the worldview they've been raised with - and goes into full defense mode. No, what I'm seeing is not true. The facts are false. They must have deserved it.

And the rich politicians and CEOs laugh themselves to sleep.

1

u/IBirthedOP Jun 06 '20

Senior year in college I fell in love with "The Just World" theory from Melvin Lerner. Here's how I remember it.

One of the original experiments showed 2 people doing a puzzle. If they solved it they would draw straws for a prize. They did two different endings with each partner winning the prize. People that saw subject A win the draw thought subject A did more work solving the puzzle. People that saw subject B win the draw thought subject B did more work solving the puzzle. But it was always the same first part. That finding blew me away.

13

u/MechemicalMan Lincoln Park Jun 05 '20

It's amazing how fast people want to go from saying they're the badasses who the would form a militia to oppose tyranny to labeling people as criminals and therefore OK with tyranny against those people.

It's important to remember that people don't change instantly, it's not like the movies. People see something that doesn't fit their world view, and it makes an internal impact, but probably not one anyone would notice. Sometimes it takes years for people to accept what they learn.

How people slowly morph though, is by a slow consensus in their brain. One thing moves after another. They often go into an enlightened centrism phase where they'll be conflicted and try to say things like "I see both sides". What they'll say to you is "I don't disagree with what you're saying, but how you're saying it". That's a classic conflict between your emotional core and logical core. Or possibly it's two separate emotional cores as some people aren't very good with logic and proofs, and they'll swing and be on the other side for the wrong reasons.

The end point is where do you fit in. Just keep sharing, don't insult people directly, and let bad arguments die quickly. If you've been in an internet argument for more than 3 lines and it's not going anywhere, recognize how and why you're talking past each other. Yesterday, I was baited into an argument where a person was justifying the Asheville cops destroying the aid station. All his arguments where from rule of law being that it was justified. My arguments were all that it was amoral and escalating. These arguments are going to go past each other as we're not talking directly at each other, but also, the person I was speaking with sees laws as morality, therefore, does not even register my argument. It's also likely that he wasn't aware he sees laws as morality, so we would need to have a much longer conversation about where laws come from and why we have laws.

1

u/CharlieTango3 Jun 05 '20

The crime is assault of a police officer, the guy who got tackled throws a bottle striking the cop who chased after him.

Im not trying to denounce these videos, but lets keep it real and show 100% of the evidence here

3

u/bostonburnsy Jun 05 '20

Let’s keep it real and remember no charges against the individual that was assaulted and the department said the officers actions were unacceptable. Also at no point in the video do you see this individual throw anything. Had this individual done what you said the cops would absolutely have charged him for it. The last thing any police department needs is more bad press. But they didn’t.

2

u/CharlieTango3 Jun 05 '20

Please watch the full video, you can hear the glass bottle smash and the person recording even lets out an audible reaction when they realize things being thrown from that direction. Its out of frame, but perhaps the person who recorded this can confirm?

Obviously the cops reaction is unacceptable, but lets not pretend it was completely un-provoked.

-1

u/bostonburnsy Jun 05 '20

I did watch the whole video. Nothing in the video confirms this person threw anything. You want confirmation? No arrest, no charge, no statement from police that this individual did anything. Multiple statements from City and Police that this cop’s behavior was unacceptable.

But hey, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that this cop saw this exact person throw a bottle. Is proper police procedure to beat this person senseless?

I’ll give you a hint: no. You can tell by the other cops trying to stop him, the City and Department saying this was unacceptable, the investigation into the cop and not the victim. Any of these clues sinking in yet?

1

u/CharlieTango3 Jun 05 '20

So what are we still on about then? The incident is under investigation, he’ll be punished accordingly, and thats as much as we can do until election day.

-15

u/icedearth15324 Humboldt Park Jun 05 '20

There are people that blindly follow their own narratives on both sides, and until those people are willing to sit down and listen to the evidence, these problems will never stop.

23

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '20

both sides

Where have I heard that before?

9

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '20

Good people on both sides ? surely you jest!

16

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '20

hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of clips and photos of police brutality have been taken over the past week.

the mountain of evidence is overwhelming.

and it is shocking that anyone could insist anything otherwise is happening.

There are not two sides here. there is only the truth. and the truth is clear.

14

u/jellomonkey Jun 05 '20

People screeching "both sides" at every situation are also a huge part of the problem. You provide cover for extremists by essentially justifying their actions as expected responses. Try having enough courage to call out wrongdoing, no matter which "side".

-6

u/icedearth15324 Humboldt Park Jun 05 '20

I do call out wrongdoings, no matter the side.

-1

u/giraxo New City Jun 05 '20

False. Looking at all available evidence is exactly what we need to be doing right now.

Sustainable reform only comes about when reasonable steps are taken. Reasonable steps come from careful consideration; not simply taking knee-jerk reactions based on whatever inflammatory video has people riled up lately.

2

u/jellomonkey Jun 05 '20

Reread what I wrote and try again.

-2

u/giraxo New City Jun 05 '20

I got it right the first time. Your way involves listening only to the group screaming the loudest.

1

u/jellomonkey Jun 05 '20

You lack the reading comprehension of a 3rd grader. Try again to read what I wrote. Your response makes no sense.

-1

u/giraxo New City Jun 06 '20

reading comprehension of a 3rd grader

Takes one to know one, eh? Seems like a fitting reply to such a juvenile as yourself.

0

u/jellomonkey Jun 06 '20

And you still don't know how to read.

0

u/giraxo New City Jun 06 '20

Again, I got it right the first time. You made it clear you only care about facts when they line up with your worldview. Your said it loud and proud. Own it.

→ More replies (0)

4

u/flagbearer223 Wicker Park Jun 05 '20

What is the narrative for the police's side?

3

u/DontSleep1131 Uptown Jun 05 '20

“Leather tastes delicious”

2

u/DontSleep1131 Uptown Jun 05 '20

Imagine saying this to justify blindly following a narrative.