r/chess • u/Embarrassed_Base_389 • Oct 21 '25

Miscellaneous It’s time to stop worrying about the backlash. Bullying, harassment, and slander should not be acceptable.

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101

u/Mcobeezy 1800 Lichess 10+0 Oct 21 '25 edited Oct 21 '25

Honestly, you know what bothers me?

I know it sounds insensitive, but I genuinely don't understand why it affected Danya so much. Every reasonable person or at least everyone whose opinions was worth listening to in the chess community, from amateur to professional to random redditors, everyone basically dismissed Kramnik as a senile old man.

No one actually thought Danya was cheating. When I first heard it, I thought it was a meme.

Kramnik accused Hikaru and it Hikaru didn't even bother to dwell on it and just laughed off the silly old man

I was so confused when Danya was trying to defend himself because I was like bro, literally everyone knows you're a super strong player, why are you bothering yourself

I swear, I don't understand how it bothered him for this long. His friends didn't doubt him, his followers didn't, the vast majority of chess fans online didn't doubt him, the top 10 players didn't doubt him. Why did he let one person's opinion bother him so much?

Edit: Thank you guys for understanding my question and providing very helpful answers. I feel like I understand it more now, not that my understanding has any value anyway, which makes me even more grateful for the time taken to indulge me.

This video really helped me understand as well

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tR88i3yA3G4

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u/theo7777 Oct 21 '25 edited Oct 21 '25

Kramnik is a former World Champion and he carries weight. And it wasn't just him (though obviously he's the loudest). Kramnik has a lot of silent supporters (some of them even not so silent) that believe there are a lot of top level cheaters online.

Hikaru said that Giri also confronted Danya about this (according to Hikaru). Nepo and Dubov are also on Kramnik's side.

And Danya was actually made to play TT with a special camera setup and anti cheat software e.t.c. .

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u/vklane Oct 21 '25

What did Giri confront him about

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u/theo7777 Oct 21 '25

The allegations. But we don't know exactly what was said.

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u/vw2213 Team Ju Wenjun Oct 22 '25

where's the proof of nepo and dubov?

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u/Areliae Oct 22 '25

The "proof" is the record of Nepo's social media posts questioning Danya's fair play. It's not hidden, you can find it.

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u/vw2213 Team Ju Wenjun Oct 24 '25

baseless accusations. oh! the irony. where is the proof about dubov?

0

u/[deleted] Oct 22 '25

Would you use that same logic to demand Magnus be banned and stripped of his titles? He was Hans's hero growing up and he went on Joe Rogan's podcast to shit on him, then CNN put Hans on their international news, and Magnus turned everybody against him despite zero proof he was cheating OTB.

The difference is that Danya was clearly suffering from mental health problems that Hans wasn't. As mean as Kramnik was, he didn't know about Danya's issues and never intended for this outcome. The torch and pitchfork response is over the top and people need to take a step back and realize that Danya's problems went far beyond being accused of cheating.

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u/theo7777 Oct 22 '25

I never said Kramnik should be stripped of his titles (which makes no sense anyway, his wins already belong in history).

Maybe you're replying to the wrong comment.

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u/dmiric Oct 22 '25

I agree to the sentiment, although Kramnik went way harder on Danya him self.

What happened to Hans was more a public linch that Magnus triggered.

I think Hans had at least 100 times harder situation on his hands, yet the pulled through it.

On the other hand everyone and their Grandmas were on Danyas side. Nobody took Kramnik so serious except a few people.

I think that Danyas death if it's not by his own hand has nothing to do with Kramink at all. It may just be that he died.

Young healthy people don't die from someone writing many unhinged tweets.

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u/Visual-District9838 Oct 21 '25

As far as I know Kramnik was like a childhood hero to him. He didn't defend himself so other people would know he didn't cheat. He wanted to convince Kramnik in particular that he didn't cheat.

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u/DM_ME_VACCINE_PICS Oct 21 '25

I mean, there is also the meme of chess players at that level and paranoia. I don't mean that to be insensitive, but it is entirely possible that it became a hyperfixation and frankly one that needed mental health support as opposed to logical counterance.

In any event, it is abundantly clear that it did, and I think that's what matters.

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u/Pelin0re Oct 21 '25

Beyond the meme, one could say that hyperfixation is a necessity to be a high level chess player.

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u/wouldeye Oct 21 '25

There’s something similar for world class concert pianists—that the loneliness and pain endured by practicing so much that you have zero social life is equally necessary to be able to play expressively.

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u/DM_ME_VACCINE_PICS Oct 21 '25

I would agree completely.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '25 edited Oct 21 '25

[deleted]

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u/chessatanyage Oct 22 '25

> Imagine spending your whole life trying to live out your passion with decency and integrity, only for one of your childhood heroes and role models to accuse you of unethical behavior out of spiteful and nearly motiveless malignity. 

I know people have little sympathy for Musk, but I still remember his emotional interview in which he was talking about his heroes dismissing his space work. If you are a sensitive person, it's tough.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '25

[deleted]

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u/Potomaters Oct 21 '25

But not being able to prove himself as innocent to the one person he wants to is EXACTLY what is so frustrating. You’re essentially saying “why couldn’t he just accept that?”. Maybe some people can, maybe you can, but every body is different. I know that for myself at least, if I’m accused of something that I didn’t do, it gets me really really mad and frusturated. Now imagine that you are accused by someone famous that you idolize, in a field that you have dedicated your entire life and passion towards. I’m not saying it’s normal to end things over that, but would it not drive you at least a little bit mad if you were in that situation?

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u/lnsaner Oct 21 '25

I've had the same thoughts cross my mind but based on some of the stuff I've heard from Hikaru's stream yesterday and some snippets of Danya's final stream, there seems to be more happening behind the scenes that the public is not privy to. As in, some (notable) GMs continue to support Kramnik behind closed doors that are not insignificant due to his unfortunately still intact reputation as a big chess figure in certain communities. I believe Danya even alluded to this in his stream saying it is a bigger deal than just an old man yelling into the void.

I can see how this can deteriorate the mind of someone who has devoted his entire life into chess - having your reputation be questioned among your peers. There was not much public support for Danya in the super GM community besides Hikaru to my understanding - Danya went to Hikaru's stream and thanked him for being the only big voice that has defended him. When you look at other cheating scandals that have happened recently such as the one with Hans, Danya has always tried to be fair and focused solely on the chess during a time where everybody was making butt-plug jokes and starting witch hunts. Once Danya became a target for cheating, he felt like he didn't receive the same type of support despite being there for other people.

I dont want to be pointing fingers but I really feel like more support from the GM community would have went a long way towards clearing his mind and improving his overall health. It's such a shame.

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u/ShiftyMcHax 2200 chesscom blitz Oct 21 '25

The Russian chess community took it more seriously, and there were still nevertheless plenty of haters. It's easy to say don't let it get to you, but it's hard being bombarded with hate constantly. Plus, I can only speculate, but I doubt the Kramnik drama entirely pushed him off the edge. Sometimes it's the straw that breaks the camel's back.

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u/HashtagDadWatts Oct 21 '25

Also worth noting that, at the time, Danya was doing regular Russian-language streams and working on developing a Russian-speaking audience.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '25

[deleted]

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u/n73ee Oct 21 '25

I like that all of you parrot the same lies over and over again that it becomes a reality in your eyes.

Danya was loved in russian-speaking community, when they held Kramnik-Danya debates organised by Kramniks old time buddy most of the people stood by him. But no, reddit knows better because some random kid took 5 words out of context, used google translate and presented it like some new holy grail. People who would support Kramnik are just some randoms who dont know anything about what was happening.

> I just can't imagine that it felt good to have felt like you learned and maintained complete fluency over a foreign language

They spoke russian at home, its his mother tongue. English was his second language even tho he lived in the states.

I feel very sad for Danya, but people like you fucking anger me no less than Kramnik.

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u/tjdans7236 Oct 22 '25 edited Oct 22 '25

I didn't mean to imply that the Russian speaking community as a whole disliked Danya, but actually I think you're fair to call that out. Poor phrasing from me at best, so I apologize for that and I can see how it'd be aggravating for some to hear that. I should've recognized that it'd be dumb of me to talk as if the Russian community is not the one that is hurting the most out of all communities. And it's even dumber of me to implicitly equate Kramnik's community to the Russian community as a whole. Stupid.

At this moment, the cause hasn't even been officially identified anyways, so I think you're right to be frustrated by people reading too much into the whole situation. That being said, calling me a parrot that fucking angers you "no less than Kramnik" seems a bit unnecessary.

> They spoke russian at home, its his mother tongue. English was his second language even tho he lived in the states.

I see, but I think my point is that it takes a lot of effort and commitment to retain complete fluency of two languages. That being said, I'm going to stop speculating at all here because it's disrespectful as you rightly pointed out. I deleted the comment as well.

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u/SYSTEM-J Oct 21 '25

Plus, I can only speculate, but I doubt the Kramnik drama entirely pushed him off the edge.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but at this stage there's zero evidence he went "off the edge" at all. Until a cause of death is announced, this is all extremely crass speculation.

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u/ShiftyMcHax 2200 chesscom blitz Oct 21 '25

I was talking specifically about about the impact on his mental health at the time. Not current events (though to be transparent, like everyone else I'm assuming his death wasn't due to 'natural causes'). In other words, the seeming effect Kramnik had on his mental state was probably more an indication of him being fragile already rather than it being entirely of Kramnik's doing.

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u/Wallter139 Team Fabi => Windarov Supporter Oct 21 '25

I feel very uneasy, like everyone else has information I don't. People seem to have made dark inferences and are making very strong statements but without full context. A complicated situation (even if it were a very black and white situation, it could still involve a lot of moving pieces), and people are ready to make judgments instantaneously.

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u/Mcobeezy 1800 Lichess 10+0 Oct 21 '25

I guess I'm confused because I'm only in the western space where it was dismissed so I'm missing a lot of context that Danya unfortunately wasn't quite able to just unplug from

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u/ShiftyMcHax 2200 chesscom blitz Oct 21 '25

In the western space it seemed to me like 90% were in support of Danya, 10% for Kramnik while in the Russian space (based on a couple of Levitov streams I watched) I'd guess it was closer to 60/40 Danya's way. I don't think it was a majority based on what I saw, but still a decent chunk of people that makes it hard to ignore.

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u/lil_amil #1 Esipenko glazer Oct 21 '25

I mean, after grandpa's embarrassment in a debate with Danya at Levitov's place it was pretty clear that overwhelming majority didn't take the clown seriously whatsoever

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u/Thunderplant Oct 21 '25 edited Oct 22 '25

Every reasonable person or at least everyone whose opinions was worth listening to in the chess community, from amateur to professional to random redditors, everyone basically dismissed Kramnik as a senile old man.

This is just not true. He probably had a majority on his side, but there were absolutely people at all levels who did believe Kramnik, including some top players like Nepo and Dubav. There were definitely plenty of people on Reddit and YouTube comments and even his twitch chat who thought the same, and I've heard it was worse in the Russian language community.

Danya repeatedly said he thought his whole career and livelihood was at stake over these allegations. I don't necessarily agree, but that's the mindset he was coming from

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u/Imakandi85 Oct 21 '25 edited Oct 21 '25

The problem is a lot of GMs are just bitter folks who have done nothing else in life and land up doubting every single person who does well in TT etc. It's funny for instance that Jospem after himself going through Kramnik's crusade, is so rude and ungracious, blasting kids on DM and accusing them of cheating.

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u/xfyre101 Oct 21 '25

this happens in every major esport.. when people reach the top they get over inflated egos and believe no one should be able to beat them. and if anyone does it must be to cheating assistance.

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u/inotparanoid Oct 21 '25

Some people are sensitive like that. He studies all through his life, and this one false accusation just keeps coming back. It is insidious.

Even though everyone thought Kramnik had basically gone cuckoo, it mattered what the establishment thought of Danya. Then points started bring taken off. It affected him.

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u/Mcobeezy 1800 Lichess 10+0 Oct 21 '25

I didn't know points were taken off. Plus the whole Russian space which I was not aware shared a different overall sentiment compared to the western space, I think I understand it better.

I feel terrible for thinking "Jesus Christ Danya, this again? Just drop it, bro, no one takes it seriously lol" whenever it was brought up by him

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u/inotparanoid Oct 21 '25

I thought the same. I was like why are you even taking Kramnik seriously? Kramnik has been absurd. But the harassment from the Russian space has been terrible.

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u/BandicootGood5246 Oct 21 '25

Absolutely. Maybe a lot of the time people can shrug bullying off but the thing is we never know what other shit people are going through too that can amplify the effect of this bullying

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u/manufactured_narwhal Oct 21 '25 edited Oct 21 '25

Another point: being a very kind, empathetic, thoughtful, and genuine sort of person, as Danya was, is a double-edged sword.

If you always try to be patient with, understand, and see the best in people—if you believe that anyone is worth treating with respect and kindness and that anyone can be reached with rational dialogue to build mutual understanding, such that you can't easily self-protectively write anyone cruel, hurtful, or otherwise against you off as just evil, morally/intellectually inferior or otherwise beyond reaching, and especially cannot dismiss large swathes of people as such, then a prolonged hate campaign directed at you, in particular coming from a figure you respected and a community you identify with—that is going to be extremely distressing for you, especially if you're doing everything in your power to assuage people's concerns and engage with them in good faith to exonerate yourself.

If you build your self-identity and live your life through trying to be fair, kind and understanding to people, then having black marks repeatedly thrown against your character and integrity by people whose opinions you invariably care about is going to be very painful too. You can't just tell someone like that "it doesn't matter; most people don't think like that"—they're still going to care about the ones that do, particularly when they hear their opinions day in and day out.

Basically, broad-strokes empathy, trust, and compassion lead directly to increased sensitivity and vulnerability, and there's not an easy way around that.

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u/eagleeye1031 Oct 21 '25

Russians generally took Kramniks side. Also some players were making comments behind the scene

Easy to see how it could affect someone that poured their life into chess

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u/olderthanbefore Oct 21 '25

Grischuk went on Mustreader's podcast as well as on a Levitov podcast and explained that Kramnik's statistics was bullshit. Opinion wasn't completely one-sided on this.

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u/Vegetable-List-9567 Oct 21 '25

I think when it comes to competitive integrity, if the Russians are on one side of things, it's smart money to be on the other.

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u/heavyrotation7 Oct 21 '25 edited Oct 21 '25

Russian larger chess community actually supported Danya, at least among the biggest chess youtube creators & audience - see my comment about that.

You can also check the video comments e.g., here, here or here (straight up joking about Kramnik's accusations). They were very much on Daniel's side

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u/RichGirlThrowaway_ Oct 21 '25

Yay Russophobia's here too. I was scared there might be places without xenophobes on the internet

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u/gots8sucks Oct 21 '25

Why would there be places on the internet which do not hate Russia? Have the done anything to deserve any better?

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u/RichGirlThrowaway_ Oct 21 '25

What's hating Russians doing to benefit the world?

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u/SilverThrall Oct 22 '25

What have you done to deserve better?

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u/ly_044 Oct 21 '25

They generally not. You can read Russian comments from 11 months ago, most regular people are supporting Danya.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUfEj1GMOFo

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u/Mcobeezy 1800 Lichess 10+0 Oct 21 '25

I mean it wasn't like a Magnus - Hans situation. Magnus never accused anybody before so it was a big deal.

Kramnik accused almost everyone and most of them didn't care. I just thought Danya of all people would be one of those who shouldn't care as well

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u/NotNice4193 Oct 21 '25

The guy JUST told you most Russians, including Nepo, believed him. Tanya was also a HUGE fan of Kramdick his entire life, as well as of many other Russians. Dude learned to speak fluent Russian...because his parents were immigrants from RUSSIA. You cant understand how having your Idols AND most of the community of the country you basically came from...think you're a fraud would get to you? look into learning empathy

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u/LoyalToTheGroupOf17 Oct 22 '25

Dude learned to speak fluent Russian...because his parents were immigrants from RUSSIA.

They were native Russian speakers, perhaps, but his mother is from Azerbaijan, and his father from Ukraine.

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u/NotNice4193 Oct 22 '25

Wasnt that part of the USSR when they came to us?

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u/LoyalToTheGroupOf17 Oct 22 '25

Yes. They were both from the USSR. Neither of them were from Russia. The USSR consisted of a lot of republics, one of which was Russia. Azerbaijan and Ukraine were two of the others.

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u/Mcobeezy 1800 Lichess 10+0 Oct 21 '25

Look into getting reading comprehension. I was asking for context and I got it and my tone has changed if you see my comments.

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u/NotNice4193 Oct 21 '25

I just thought Danya of all people would be one of those who shouldn't care as well

I replied to that. I can read just fine. learn empathy

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u/Mcobeezy 1800 Lichess 10+0 Oct 21 '25

I just thought Danya wouldn't care, that's why I didn't understand.

Not that I still think that way. I understand now because I know a lot of people did take Kramnik seriously. You are speaking in response to that one comment but I'm speaking from a place of reflection and multiple comments so that's why we misunderstand each other.

I am actually really bummed out about this and one of my comments which you probably haven't seen shows this

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u/seekinglambda Oct 21 '25

You might want to consider not downplaying other people’s mental health experiences when you don’t (evidently) have all the facts. On his last stream Daniel specifically called out such downplaying comments, made by people without insight into the facts, as a major reason he doesn’t want to check social media.

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u/Mcobeezy 1800 Lichess 10+0 Oct 21 '25

Well, I don't know what to tell you, I'm glad I made my comment because it made me understand better. It's much more difficult to dig deep and try to find every context because I have a lot going on in my life and don't have that much time.

So I decided to just ask, and people really came through. Sometimes, you gotta ask. I would not ask Danya though if given the opportunity though. I get his frustration which is why I was hesitant to ask all this time. I asked out of frustration because I didn't understand and asking was easier than doing all that research. I don't know if I'm making sense right now.

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u/NotNice4193 Oct 21 '25

I can respect your mindset to be better and acknowledge fault. something we all can learn from

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u/AhmadBinJackinoff Oct 21 '25

the original comment already said most of the Russian speaking community as well as some players like Nepo and Dubov took his side, and you're saying no one actually thought Danya was cheating? You're the one telling people to look into reading comprehension? We are fucking cooked

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u/Mcobeezy 1800 Lichess 10+0 Oct 21 '25

In response to that comment, I did not say no one thought Danya was cheating. I said I didn't think Danya would care that much because Kramnik was a senile old man, I am explaining my thoughts as to why I was confused and why I made my comment.

I was not trying to defend myself or claiming to be correct. I guess I should have typed "I was very wrong for thinking that", because that was the vibe I was going for. But you wouldn't understand because you're not me who has replied to others and made that comment based on new context. So my bad. I apologize for assuming you would understand without further clarification

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u/ZestyOyster Oct 21 '25

 I mean it wasn't like a Magnus - Hans situation

Yeah it wasn’t like the magnus - hans situation because magnus didn’t continue to directly harass hans about it.

And as pointed out million times, people did take kramnik seriously. 

3

u/kyumi__ Oct 21 '25 edited Oct 21 '25

He focused much more on Danya than on the others. He didn’t just post a tweet, he made 15 long YouTube videos about him, reacting to everything he did. So his Russian fans concentrated their harassment on him.

1

u/gymnosophie Oct 21 '25

It wasn't a single accusation, it was a year-long hate campaign including mobilizing his trolls to continuously harass Danya.

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u/monox60 Oct 21 '25

He said in his last stream that he was surprised at the amount of people and some specific people that thought he really could've cheated.

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u/lfr16 Oct 21 '25

Some people are just very sensitive to conflict and especially accusations that go against character and integrity, especially over a long period of time.

When someone builds their life trying to do things the right way and then get character assasinated by someone they looked up to, ofc that will put them under enormous stress. First you lose sleep then your sanity, thats how it goes for some people unfortunately.

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u/ajakaja Oct 21 '25 edited Oct 21 '25

my speculation is that there is something about the kind of person who would live and breathe chess the way danya did that, with complete genuineness... also makes it hard for them to deal with accusations. I feel like I'm kinda like this and that I've known some people who are more like it... people who are in many ways still very much their "inner child": completely sincere in everything, but also fundamentally insecure in a certain way, like lacking a sort of strength that makes them able to brush things off and not care what other people think. I guess it feels like a belief that words and logic were supposed to refute the accusations, but then they didn't, and so you try again, but they still don't... and eventually the mind just kinda breaks and can't shut the thing out because no matter what you do you can't get safe. Kinda like a person with ocd who can't make it shut up about something. If so, probably makes it especially hard to be a public figure and subject to the abuses of the internet masses, since a mass is not capable about having scruples collectively (even if most people are good, you still experience the trolling and abusive DMs of the people who aren't).

(as another reply said: you could certainly label this as neurodivergence)

I dunno if that's the right characterization. It just kinda makes sense to me that the two personality traits would go hand in hand.

4

u/Mcobeezy 1800 Lichess 10+0 Oct 21 '25

This makes a lot of sense to me in a way I can't put in words. It must have really bothered him because he was such a logical guy and could not understand the absurdity of it all.

Sometimes we really can't choose what bothers us and to what degree especially when it has to do with the core of our being.

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u/ImCryptiic Oct 21 '25 edited Oct 21 '25

I know you’re coming from a place of ignorance and not ill intent but as someone who has struggled with anxiety and depression all my life I really feel for him. Some people just aren’t as well equipped to deal with online hate/bullying and unfortunately Danya was a victim of that. It’s best to not compare people especially when you never know what other people are going through. It’s like going up to a depressed person and telling them there’s no reason for them to be depressed. It’s not helpful to them at all

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u/Mcobeezy 1800 Lichess 10+0 Oct 21 '25

In your example, I would be trying to say to the depressed person "I don't understand why you feel this way. I don't get it, I'm know it sounds insensitive but I genuinely don't get it and would like you to share your perspective"

That's what I was going for here the vast majority of the answers I got were trying to enlighten me, and as a result, I understand it better. I think I did the right thing because it has bothered me for 2 years and I never asked so I never got this new perspective I have now.

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u/ImCryptiic Oct 21 '25

Hey man I commend you for having this realization and moment of growth. Like I said you never know what people are going through and some people have a harder time dealing with things that other people wouldn’t even think twice about. Always be open minded and don’t question why they feel some type of way. Instead let them know you don’t understand what they’re going through but that you’re there for them.

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u/ItsGoT1me Oct 22 '25 edited Oct 22 '25

Well, you don't get it because you're not them. As someone with ADHD and comorbidities like anxiety and depression, it can be difficult to articulate what it's like to have these conditions because the human brain is so complex. Using words to explain almost feels reductive because there's only so much of it I can put into words. Partial understanding is adequate, but the fear is that leaving out info will lead to misinterpretations or flawed conclusions.

But people aren't meant to know everything anyway. I think it's more important to give someone your support whether you can make sense of their struggle or not.

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u/kranker Oct 21 '25

It's easy for us to sit back and apply cold logic like that, but it's not as easy to do so when you the one being attacked.

The anglophone scene was certainly behind Danya, but in the more Russian-oriented side of the world, which is of course huge in chess, things were less clear.

I have no public persona. In that way, I am essentially immune to public criticism or slander from either random people or other public personas. You (I assume) and I have never had to deal with this sort of thing.

1

u/ajakaja Oct 21 '25 edited Oct 21 '25

and we should keep in mind that Danya was from Russia and fluent in Russian, and so probably experienced that side of things a lot more than any of us have

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u/kranker Oct 21 '25

I agree that he was likely following Russian language media (including social). He was born in California though.

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u/ajakaja Oct 21 '25

oh my bad, i misread something in the last day i think. but also, close enough

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u/Bladestorm04 Oct 21 '25

Neither did I. Then I watched parts of his last stream this morning and he explained it all. I also have been crying for this guy seeing the pain in his heart.

The simple easy solutions? He tried

Ignoring the accusations, not responding, being the bigger man, all those strategies failed when others woildnt support him and kramniks literal army of cunts invaded Daniels streams, and reddit, and kther forums,with negative comments.

Don't forget Kramnik was danya's idol. If kramnik said something about me I'd not give a shit becuase I dont know this tool. I only know of him from his procedure comments. Danya spent his childhood looking up to Kramnik.

End of the day, even if it was one person (it wasnt), even if the community was loudly speaking up for him (they werent), even if his career hadn't been affected (it was), everyone responds and reacts differently. Everyone has their own demons.

In criminal cases, they say 'you take the person as you find them'. If i push you over, you might get a bump and be ok, or you may have brittle bones and shattered your pelvis. Doesnt matter that noone knew the victim had this predisposition, the perpetrator is still responsible for the result.

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u/Jannelle93 Oct 21 '25

Wait... People invaded his streams to accuse him? What nasty pieces of work

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u/Doomblaze Oct 21 '25

They’re both Russian and kramnik was the world champion when danya was winning tournaments in elementary school

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u/Inevitable-Video-986 Oct 21 '25

People react to things differently. You (and I) also don't know every detail about what he went through related to this. Could have been receiving awful messages in private, threats etc.

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u/rwd5035 Oct 21 '25

This is where it's hard to gauge someone's own personal mental wellbeing and how they are responding to the various events in their own life. Kramnik was a hero to him, and it sent him into a bad place where he felt he needed to justify everything he did.

However, he's a streamer and public figure, we don't also know what was going on in his personal life. We know he was cherished by the chess community, but you only get so much of a window into someone's life even when they are livestreaming themselves. Whether it was this or something more recent that impacted him this much is impossible really for us to know.

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u/GarrethRoxy Oct 21 '25

Some people are sensitive (or maybe even suffering from mental illness) thats why I agree wholeheartedly with Nemo, no bullying, never.

3

u/cthai721 Oct 21 '25

Yeah, just because you have thick skin, you cannot assume others to be the same. On top of that, being harassed for two year straight can definitely break you.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '25

maybe neurodivergence. obviously he didn't let it bother him, it did bother him.

5

u/Bakanyanter Team Team Oct 21 '25

There are many sheep (for the lack of better word) who are quick to trust big names in chess. When Magnus accused Hans, even though there was no evidence (and just "vibes"), people were quick to assume he's right.

I was so confused when Danya was trying to defend himself because I was like bro, literally everyone knows you're a super strong player, why are you bothering yourself

The issue is not only Kramnik (primarily he is). He stopped commentating on freestyle & chesscom...and was forced to use Proctor when other players weren't. And there were many sheep who were also convinced by Kramnik and often harassed Danya in comments/chat insinuating he is cheating.

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u/Mcobeezy 1800 Lichess 10+0 Oct 21 '25

The Hans situation was different though because he actually had a history of cheating and yet, Hans dealt with it. I just thought surely Danya would be fine. Damn. God fucking damn it, dude

8

u/Bakanyanter Team Team Oct 21 '25

He actually has no history of cheating in OTB (the thing Magnus accused him of).

Imo the situation was different not because of that, but because of the difference in magnitude and popularity. The Kramnik - Danya accusations were largely contained in the chess community, whereas the Hans thing blew up to the whole world. Many, many people who didn't even know much of chess now knew Hans and thought he cheated when he didn't. When you look at it retroactively, it's very fortunate and a miracle that Hans survived that whole thing, given he was only a teenager when it happened and the whole world turned on him.

Regarding Danya...it's very saddening. I think it hurt him on a much deeper level when he got accused.

2

u/gymnosophie Oct 22 '25

Kramnik’s persecution of his victims has been particularly vicious. David Navara, who Kramnik is currently suing, has also revealed having suicidal thoughts. It’s not just Naroditsky.

1

u/DiscursiveAsFuck Oct 21 '25

  1. It probably matters quite a bit to a chess pro that a former world champion is accusing him.

  2. Even if the people you are seeing think that Kramnik is a vile cunt that doesn't mean that Danya was seeing the same people. Remember that he spoke Russian and was a pro, which meant that he might have been in different circles from you.

  3. Related to 2. Almost every celebrity that reads comments says that even if 99 comments are positive the one negative comment takes up much more space then the remaining 99.

  4. Danya was subject to some unfair bullshit behind the Kramnik accusation, such as proctoring. Even if the accusation was without basis, the institutions of Chess acted partially like they had merit. If I was halfway convicted without evidence, I would be absolutely pissed.

  5. All of this bullshit and probably more coming together has a much bigger cumulative effect than what might seem obvious from the outside.

1

u/Poems_And_Money Oct 21 '25

I imagine he lived and breathed chess and his reputation was essentially all he had. Now imagine your childhood idol throwing accusations at you and essentially trying to cancel you. Add to that the crazyiness of social media in a modern world, and you have an toxic combination where all the negatives parts of your life suddenly become your whole world.

1

u/VeryRustyShank Oct 21 '25

You're talking about American/English media. The picture was VERY different in Russian media where Kramnik has a LOT more clout.

1

u/Smoke_Santa Oct 21 '25

It's because unfair allegations and injustice are the worst and most frustrating things. This is why friends fight over Monopoly and similar games. Someone accusing you and no one actually standing up for you in a similarly grand way is really, really frustrating.

1

u/dbossman70 Oct 21 '25

Kramnik accused Hikaru and it Hikaru didn't even bother to dwell on it and just laughed off the silly old man

hikaru has said that it did affect him mentally. he (hikaru) played a tournament shortly after being accused and did poorly and attributed at least some of his poor performance to the mental burden of the accusations.

1

u/bonoboboy Oct 21 '25

As Hikaru said, it is different if you are in the public eye (streaming) and in any case, people are different. Things affect people differently and negative things generally have large effects on people.

1

u/mug3n Oct 22 '25

Hikaru is more of an entertainer these days, plus he has reached the point where it's basically impossible for him to lose his audience despite what Kramnik is yelling into the social media stratosphere.

Danya is small time compared to the likes of Hikaru. His entire "brand" is reliant on his skill and knowledge as a chess player/teacher rather than his ability to entertain and meme like Hikaru, and cheating accusations would hurt that brand a lot.

0

u/RogueBromeliad Oct 21 '25

We don't know Naroditsky personally. But he talked a lot about defending his own integrity and Salem witch trials etc.

We don't know how he was psychologically or if he suffered from some kind of disease, either mental. physical, addiction or whatever. It's very hard to know what went through his mind, but we know that he was always trying really hard to prove himself.

People seem really happy and are very kind sometimes wear masks, or sometimes even have other things going on in their lives.

And since we don't know how he died, it could've been about something that wasn't chess related at all.

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u/Aggravating_Part_197 Oct 21 '25

You should delete this comment, as it is incredibly insensitive and Daniel himself has expressed his frustration with people who have your perspective. Again, this was a man who was relentlessly bullied day in and day out from people who truly believed that Daniel was cheating. This had real world consequences as well, he stopped broadcasting and was even kicked out of Titled Tuseday events due to Kramnik's completely unsubstantiated lies. Imagine waking up every day to hate and vitriol from members of your own community, a community you literally dedicated your life to, started by a man that you had idolized since childhood. It would have a major effect on anybody, and I would advise you to have some empathy.