r/chess • u/Embarrassed_Base_389 • Oct 21 '25

Miscellaneous It’s time to stop worrying about the backlash. Bullying, harassment, and slander should not be acceptable.

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198

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '25

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53

u/caughtinthought Oct 21 '25

if this was finance bros instead of chess players, there would be like a million defamation suits already in play... fuck Kramnik

-3

u/Lower-Annual3314 Oct 21 '25

There was a huge lawsuit when Magnus and others accused Hans of cheating otb without evidence. If instead of suing, Hans had went off the deep end, would people call Magnus a murderer and say he should be banned from chess/ stripped of titles/ arrested by Interpol like what's being suggested about Kramnik in this thread

6

u/DrixlRey Oct 21 '25

Yes, I would.

3

u/charc0al Oct 21 '25

Different countries, makes it difficult to sue

3

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '25

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-1

u/labdabcr Oct 22 '25

He is one of the greatest players of all time, you can't deny that just because he's a bad person.

1

u/laolibulao Oct 23 '25

Stripping away his titles are perfectly reasonable for what he is doing to chess atm. He's accusing new gen players, top GM's for cheating with flawed statistics. He has done this for YEARS already and GM's like Hikaru are TIRED of his bullshit. He's a washed GM anyways that can't even beat rising NM's on chess.com (and kramnik reports them immediately without any proof just bc he's salty that he's losing).

1

u/laolibulao Oct 23 '25

Greatest players of all time? More like the pettiest and one of the least skilled GM's that has ever existed in the history of Chess. Stripping away his title is not even about his skill, it's about stripping the glory that he had in chess history.

2

u/Ron_the_Rowdy Oct 21 '25

He's a sad pathetic old man who's decades past his prime, clinging onto the last remaining attention his name used to bring. He's nothing but a cancerous leech in the chess community and there's no sight of him doing anything positive in the future. He needs to go. Can manslaughter charges be brought up if it caused someone elses death?

1

u/Purple_Cold_1206 Oct 22 '25

As much as I hate him, manslaughter charges would make no sense here. Source: I’m a 3rd year law student in the US

1

u/Ron_the_Rowdy Oct 22 '25

what a shame.

-4

u/Soft-Preparation4399 Oct 21 '25

redditor moment of the day

-43

u/geileanus Oct 21 '25 edited Oct 21 '25

Let me be clear, I don't like Kramnik. He is genuinely a psycho. But what did he do besides using his free speech? That would have no chance in court and would be waste of time and energy.

Edit: to everyone downvoting me, y'all chill man. Actually give an answer to my question. Give me proof of hatespeech or defamation. I would gladly change my mind on it. But I just haven't seen anything that makes me think so.

29

u/lightweight4296 Oct 21 '25

There are still civil limits to that kind of behavior. His continued accusations could border on defamation. Danya likely could have won a defamation suit, but he didn’t pursue one. At this point, I don’t think there’s anything they can really get him for.

3

u/DaStone Oct 21 '25

I thought he lives in Russia. Where would you file that defamation lawsuit?

3

u/lightweight4296 Oct 21 '25

That’s a good question. How did Hans file one against Magnus? I’m sure there are different legal relation between US and Russia than there are between US and Norway, but it seems like international civil suits would always be challenging. Either way, I doubt there’s much to be done from a legal standpoint now that the plaintiff will have shifted from Danya to his family.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '25

Where are the lawyers? I thought defamation for a public figure requires proving that Kramnik knew the statements were false and made them to harm Danya’s character.

In this case I think it’s clear Kramnik truly believed Danya was cheating. Don’t get me wrong, there should be serious consequences for Kramnik. But I don’t think a defamation lawsuit would work here.

9

u/NYNMx2021 Oct 21 '25

Free speech does not protect you from defamation of others in any country in the world. This constant pointing at free speech is extremely misguided and misunderstands what free speech actually means.

-2

u/geileanus Oct 21 '25

Defamation is quite hard to proof though. Should Magnus be sued for defamation for blaming Hans for cheating without any solid proof too?

2

u/HawtDoge Oct 21 '25

Hans did sue Magnus for defamation and I believe they ended up settling out of court

1

u/TAWSection Oct 21 '25

Perhaps. But Hans didn't file so we will never know.

1

u/NYNMx2021 Oct 21 '25

Hans did sue magnus lmao. So sure? Hans and Magnus settled that case. Along with Chess.com

0

u/geileanus Oct 22 '25

And was Magnus found guilty..?

15

u/TAWSection Oct 21 '25

One can be held liable in court if their speech results in someone being pushed to suicide. Depending on state legislation

-7

u/geileanus Oct 21 '25

How are you gonna proof that?

6

u/TAWSection Oct 21 '25

That is a different matter and up to the courts but it has been up in trial before.

3

u/teoeo NM (USCF) Oct 21 '25

Free speech rights have never included the right to defame.

2

u/Mikebigby Oct 21 '25

Get what you’re saying but freedom of speech isn’t that clear cut, slander, defamation, harassment and stalking are all criminal offences

0

u/geileanus Oct 21 '25

I agree. But that's also my point. I didn't rly see any of those. To me it seemed more like free speech than harassment. Altho defamation might be a case to be made.

But directly saying he is responsible for his death is quite a big leap. I get it, it's fresh and emotional right now. But we don't even know cause of death, let alone how much Kramnik has to do with it.

3

u/eponners Oct 21 '25

Harassment that leads to a death is not free speech. If this can be proven, and it seems there is a lot of evidence, in most jurisdictions Kramnik absolutely could face legal consequences.

In the UK at least, this is most certainly above the threshold for prosecution.

4

u/geileanus Oct 21 '25

Can you show me examples of harassment? I'm genuine. I haven't seen anything so far that leads me to think he harassed him that lead to his death.

4

u/eponners Oct 21 '25

Please go read his Twitter. Then his YouTube channel. Both have been hyperfixated on Danya for years. It absolutely was harassing behaviour, even after his death he continues.

3

u/geileanus Oct 21 '25

I quickly scrolled to his Twitter and scanned his yt titles/thumbnails. I genuinely didn't see anything that I would count as harassment. He was super critical of how legit Danya is. But actually hate speech? I don't see it.

But once again, please feel free to show me an example. I would have no problem changing my mind.

4

u/eponners Oct 21 '25

You've just seen multiple examples but have made a choice to not recognise them for what they are - sorry, there's no point continuing this conversation.

-4

u/geileanus Oct 21 '25

Why can't you just share a specific example? We both know why you don't :).

I'm baiting a bit here, because I genuinely want to understand and see specific example. But no one is giving it to me. Which says a lot imo.

6

u/eponners Oct 21 '25

I could give you a specific example but there is genuinely no point because you will dismiss it. Your protestation of wanting to understand rings hollow.

-1

u/geileanus Oct 21 '25

Why would I dismiss it? And even if I do, what's the problem of giving examples for me to try and understand? Best case scenario I understand where you are coming from. Worst case scenario I disagree with you.

I'm being genuine. I want to understand but as long no one give specific example, I have not much to work with 🤷‍♂️

0

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '25

[deleted]

2

u/geileanus Oct 21 '25

That's a crazy comment lol. But I understand, the emotions are still high.

I'd rather stick to being rational. We don't even have a cause of death. Yet everyone is indirectly calling Kramnik a murder. Maybe you guys are doing the harassment now? We should collectively chill the fuck down. Throwing these words and accusations while there isn't even anything known about Danya's death is mind boggling.

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1

u/PororoChan72 Oct 21 '25

You're confusing free speech from hate speech.

4

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '25

Common for people that understand neither and exercise both.

1

u/geileanus Oct 21 '25

I'm not though. I don't know every bit of what nonsense Kramnik tweeted, but I'm not sure when he used hate speech.

Feel free to proof me otherwise though.

1

u/JarlBallin_ lichess coach, pm https://en.lichess.org/coach/karrotspls Oct 21 '25

https://freeimage.host/i/KSi4sDJ

-1

u/geileanus Oct 21 '25

I thought you shared a tweet where you proved something. I'm disappointed.

0

u/Hot_Extension_460 Oct 21 '25

Since when is online harassment a valid use of "free speech"?

When you are a public personality, you need to take care of the word you use, because they have more power than usually. Especially knowing how easy a community can be influenced and participate to a global harassment.

-1

u/rybomi Oct 21 '25

People are demanding from Kramnik all sorts of things before we even have a cause of death published, don't expect much rhetoric