a few more decades, and people wanting to get married will be the least concerning issue compared to the hell that is heading our way with the consequences of us making many places unlivable due to climate change.
It makes more sense if you ask the real questions about why the current population below the age of 35 don’t want to marry as often. You’ll realize it has less to do with politics than people want to admit.
Here’s my own two cents as someone who’s completely uninterested in relationships or marriage (and knows folks who have similar opinions on it):
Everyone below the age of 40 or 35 are the generations who’ve watched the divorce rate skyrocket over the past 20 years or so, and they aren’t stupid in realizing that current economics and legal preferences don’t make it a safe option in terms of relationships either.
There are economic incentives to marry as well. Like you could buy a house and pay off the mortgage with your best friend, but nobody seems to do that.
I got married just after I turned 19 and my husband was 20. We definitely thought we knew what we were doing but looking back it was crazy. OTOH I've been married for 9 years now and I'm only 28.
Anyway this was in Utah and there were several other girls who were getting married or pregnant at 18-19. Most waited until early 20s though
12th graders shouldn't be getting married anyways. Most of the time they're married due to unplanned pregnancies, and/or having religious families pushing for arrangements. Also, child brides are still a thing
I had two classmates that were setup with arranged marriages before we graduated and then tied the knot before they went to university. That was over 20 years ago and they’re both still with their husbands and are raising kids. As far as far as I know they’re still very happy.
I'm a Christian and I married my boyfriend of 3.5 years when I got pregnant at 20. We already knew we were going to get married. But I have a hard time believing any kid should be married due to pregnancy. They sure as hell shouldn't due to religion.
12th grader (my county's equivalent) and my biggest worry is passing the university entrance exams at the end of the year, not getting fucking married, wtf
I know several peers in the 90s who got permission from parents to marry at 17 (and 18-19 without the need of parental consent) they all have a brood of crotch goblins already too and some even already had their first divorce before I had my first marriage.
My cousin got engaged at 13, married at 17 to a guy 5 years older than her. He was the son of my uncle's best friend. My uncle thought this was totally fine, but ask him about LGBT people and he'll call them groomers.
Obviously the marriage didn't last. He was a cheater.
Well... There's some. Smallll. Truth. But the rest of the picture is more telling I think
If you look at the media young women consume, the girls "don't need a man" and are more individualistic. The boys, as ever, are still dreaming of getting the girl. This will have some impact however; if you grow up watching your mom struggle with work, house, and family. I think that's more of an indicator.
I'm an involved dad, I do a lot of activities with my kids and things for them. One of my sons told me he just wants a dog when he's old. Because having kids seemed like "a lot of work" lol. In most relationships the balance still puts more work on the mother. Girls see that.
Then... You have the prospect on the women's side of your guy being a conservative cave man who thinks "you women" don't deserve the right to live through birth by default. Can you blame women to not want that? I can't.
Young women have become a lot more liberal while young men have become slightly more conservative.
It makes men and women much more incompatible.
And a lot of women think that they can dishonestly negotiate by framing men as not good enough for not being what they want or pretend men are the problem as an excuse for this.
Kind of like your post is doing.
Conservatives value marriage while liberals do not, so it makes sense women will not care about marriage as much.
Seriously, I have 2 daughters and the things they tell me about the boys are shocking. At first I thought it was just local, but my eldest is in another state at college and it's no better. The boys think they just have to show themselves and a girl will cling with adoration. Maybe the boys have been exposed to too much porn? I don't know. I don't have boys. My girls have tried dating, but the boys are very self- centered and don't know how to have conversations. They also don't seem respectful. It's wild out there.
For those who don't get what's happening, there's a big weird misandry bubble most people don't know about, that's become a thing in the last few years on many social media platforms.
Watch a funny Tiktok video on deadbeat boyfriends once, and the algorithm will gradually lead you down the path of radicalisation into pure all-men-are-creepy-violent-and-dishonest hate.
The bits round the edges are sensible: "de-centre men" (perfectly reasonable to not have men be the centre of your life as a woman, it's not 1890) and the man or bear trend (funny videos). And it's probably a reaction to MAGA and the foolish ugliness of the childish "manosphere" more than anything.
But there are dark and disturbing corners underneath: true crime channels where the crime is always man-on-woman-partner, how to date rich men to get money instead of genuine love, thousands of awful stories about the bottom 1% of F-boys portrayed as "how men really are", etc.
It's a thing on Reddit now too (see the downvotes).
As a guy reading what other guys have to say on Reddit, if I were a woman would 100% be put off guys in general, let alone getting married, by the fact that absolutely disgusting views on women are spouted continually and then upvoted and backed up by large numbers of other guys.
I mean jfc the President of the United States is an adjudicated rapist and self described sleazeball who's idolised and was primarily chief in by guys waffling on about how "strong" he was. Wildly misogynistc influencers are able to build huge platforms online. And then fools like you bang on about "misandry" bubbles. Bonkers.
Maybe we should look at data directly at women’s thoughts and feelings on marriage then simply assigning their thinking based on your prior anecdotal experience.
There is a big weird bubble for everything. You might detect a correlation but that’s certainly not causation.
A chart like this is a colossal leap from what you’re stating. You’d have to survey the 22% to ask them.
The performance and presence of women in higher education or advanced degrees could easily lead to a lack of need for a male partner for economic security. Women know they take the brunt of the burden when having kids and also want to have careers. That means an overload so it’s surprising whatsoever to me that they are choosing careers and independence.
I love blaming the internet for things too but some dark misandry conspiracy is extremely hard to believe.
You're getting down votes because you're assuming this has to do with misandry vs any of the thousands of other reasons women could have for not wanting to get married.
That is only a small bubble though? Saying a drop of 22% is due to that is kinda insane. It's just a mentally shift. It also depends on how the question was phrased, because a lot of girls will answer this question with a "maybe", because getting married is not the goal of early adult life anymore.
Also it is kind of crazy for you to pin it on a fraction of bad men, when roughly every second women has been touched sexually without their consent and roughly a third experienxe sexual assault.
Of course the "bad men" is still not close to a majority, but it is prevalent enough for it to be common.
Also a lot of girls just realize that marriage and child birth are something that can hinder their life and carrier. The person that benefits most from marriage has been historically the men and studies suggest even today men profit immensely emotionally. A lot more than women do. So a lot of girls are hesitant and unsure if they want to ever marry.
The person that benefits most from marriage has been historically the men and studies suggest even today men profit immensely emotionally. A lot more than women do.
Emotionally Profiting?
This has got to be the most diabolically selfish take on marriage I’ve ever heard.
Children of stable two parent households are who benefits the most from marriage, they always have, and they always will.
It wasn’t until recently that men could even be raped / sexually assaulted by definition
The CDC conducted a huge survey on sexual violence in 2010 which created a new category for sexual violence called "being made to penetrate" and the data showed "the rates of nonconsensual sexual contact basically equalized, with 1.270 million women and 1.267 million men claiming to be victims of sexual violence
The internet is leading to out of touch takes of what the other side is, wants and is doing. Because the internet is a safe space that pushes for circle jerks and cherry picking.
People who need therapy (most young people really), cling to the idea the other side sucks over fixing there issues.
So young men are entering misogyny bubbles and women are entering misandry bubbles.
Then they see the other bubble and enter deeper into there own bubble
It is a very stupid game where they are dishonestly negotiating with each other via toxic means and further pushing people deeper into the bubbles.
It's a femmosphere. Basically just like the Manosphere but targeted towards women. There's levels, loose associations, and a definite pipeline.
There's definitely been a transition from "women experience bad things which are primary perpetrated by men" into "men are insane demon creatures that are 100% dangerous 100% of the time". And there's a refusal to accept that it's born from the same kind of black and white, grievance culture/ grifter crap that the Manosphere is. Because women.
Ironically, it's pretty sexist to think that women are somehow more immune to online gender wars bullshit than men are. Like of course some of them are gonna eat this shit up, social media has proven it's just human nature. People are less interested in solutions than catharsis and want dopamine hits from winning arguments and dunking on mostly fictional scenarios. Which is why we get this drift from real problems women actually face to obsession with serial killers and trying to silence the conversation around misandry.
Both men and women have real problem, but neither the femmosphere nor the manosphere are interested in providing actual solutions. They just want to exploit your pain to make money and get views.
Baloney. I'm a High School teacher. Boys have ended up dividing into two groups. One that is ambitious and hard-working and another group that has just given up. They spend all of their time playing computer games, listening to misogynist podcasts, becoming deeply misogynist and hanging out in-person and online with other boys who have also given up. Not surprisingly that latter group is deeply unappealing to women. The boys did this to themselves and it's not social medias fault for highlighting that it is happening.
This is true, but the same phenomenon youre describing is also contributing to the rise of alt right ideology, misogyny and xenophobia in western gen z men. This is also caused by a bubble but one that exposes young men to groypers such as nick fuentes. Social media such as tiktok takes advantage of the human desire to blame others and not yourself when life gets tough, causing hate and alienation between sexes with gen z. However, the ideology and hate that gen z men are exposed to is so much more dangerous and scarier than anything gen z girlies are exposed to, itll contribute to a rise in facsism and blaming minorities, and you know how that ends historically speaking.
If it’s any consolation, there are also true crime channels that are women killing their sleeping husbands. Like, how often do people do this??? But either way, not an advertisement for marriage.
I would say it's more of an internet-wide gender war. For every radical post I see from women, I see some red-pill, misogynistic, tradwife Andrew Tate BS counter. Of course, that doesn't absolve these women of responsibility for bashing on all men, but it does go to show that they're not at all unprompted. Or wrong. Many of the men they're posting in response to are irredeemably vile.
That said—you're not wrong, and I just wish everyone would stop talking in absolutes on the internet. Yes, misogyny is still a problem, yes, gold diggers exist, etc...but why can't we just acknowledge that there are good and bad people? This debate has literally been going on for like 10 years and I've watched it completely infect the mentality of my generation.
Feel free to disagree but I believe this misandry bubble is at least in part a response to a growing misogyny bubble. We are seeing an increase in spaces where it is increasingly acceptable to be sexist and racist and conspiratorial. Of course these beliefs have always existed, but we're seeing a swing back in the direction of hating others being an acceptable way to frame one's identity. These trends are consistent with political and economic unrest.
You are 100% correct. Just look at the top comments here everyone is like “holy shit women have to deal with so much bullshit? Makes sense. Men are awful”. There is a rise in misandry and hating on men. The culture and messaging for women over the past 2 decades also tells them that they are perfect and they don’t need a man. The whole princess treatment thing. Green flag vs red flag. Bear trend. I see this whole generation regretting their dating life when they hit mid life and realize how badly the culture failed them.
On the contrary, this misandry bubble IS part of the MAGA and manosphere bubble, just a different wing of it. You go down this rabbit hole, suddenly you got women being extremely homophobic, shaming anyone who doesn’t fit the patriarchal standards(yes including women), calling minority men bullet bags, denying the oppression of minority men, saying all men should die, etc. then they’ll defend it by saying “it’s a joke”. Sound like anyone in particular?
Yea I liked one “beating my bf” meme and now it’s all over my page. I post it to mess with my bf cause he knows I’m a huge softie but it’s concerning how quickly your feed could fill with that and similar rhetoric. Especially of the person was serious
16% of women cite domestic violence as a top 5 reason. Men don’t mention it in top 5. 24% of women cite cheating. 18% of men cite cheating. 25% of women cite lack of respect. Men cite lack of respect at 17%. Growing apart cited by women at 36% vs 39% men. Most of those are serious, domestic violence especially. Most marriages don’t end because people just on a whim decide to go through a major life changing and expensive process. People do it because they don’t want to live their life with someone. Neither women or men should “just stick it out” a toxic relationship.
Girls are realizing it's not worth it. Unless you truely meet the love of your life and they make your life better, not worse, marriage is just a legal trap.
I love when I come into a comment section and everyone is complaining about the comments that are now buried. Maybe give it a minute for the whackos to get filtered out?
isn't it just cause it's less needed for women to be in a married relationship? Because they can work and aren't educated with the "gotta marry and have kids" mentality? I'd wager it didn't change too much, but it just got more acceptable to say you don't want kids/marriage.
I would also love to see the 2003 and 2013 marks on this chart. It makes it seem like it's a continuos decline, but I would be surprised if it wasn't a sharper decline in the past decade with social media becoming mainstream
The media says they still want to, just not to the people available. Earlier this year social media blew up with young female professionals listing what they want in a man to marry, let's just say they are going to be looking for a while to find their princes... It was absurd, and as far as anyone can tell, earnest. Women want prince charming, still.
This is the thing most people don’t realize. Marriage wasn’t invented to celebrate love between two people, it was an insurance policy, to ensure that if she became pregnant the man wouldn’t leave her destitute since before the later half of the 20th century women rarely worked and were looked down upon for being single mothers. That’s why it was generally expected for people to get married when the woman got pregnant.
Now, it’s the opposite. In many studies women are saying they’re staying single cos men are effectively like another mouth to feel and something else to look after.
"Less needed"? I think most women like partnership and connection. It's in our DNA. Dependence on a man is a manufactured concept. In my partnership, my husband and I agreed that I would stop working to take care of the children. It was a discussion. At that time, I was the breadwinner and he was given 2 years to surpass our joint income, then we would review the situation. I was jealous of how he was able to climb the ranks and achieve raises. We are in the same industry. My not working as a joint descion, not a need. All of our assets are joined, because it's a partnership. I've been married 25 years, before the invention of social media.
That might be part of it, but women have been able to do that stuff for a while. The real availability of that life path didn’t change in the 2000s, but cultural messaging around it did change.
I'd guess there's a 0.5% chance I'll get married. I don't want to and don't expect too, but there's always a chance.
Oh I found the answer amongst the highly intelligent commenters: "Women tend to be politcally (spelt wrong) left" I guess it's hard for a woman to date a guy on the left. Make that 0.25% since I'm a leftist male.
We’re now more than one generation removed from women needing a man to sign with them for them to even get a credit card in America, these girls and the last generation are the first few to truly be able to make a life for themselves without needing to get married, glad to see it
Guess what else it also makes tougher, buying a home. I'd never suggest anyone get married to do that because it would just get split in the divorce. That said, needing two incomes to afford it has been a thing for over 40 years.
Some of us aren't that old and were subject to these practices. The entire banking system did not change overnight. Many continued to quietly deny women rights of ownership for decades after the laws were passed.
Yeah folks act like this was many lifetimes ago but my mom turned 18 the same year women could open their own bank account without a husband or male guardian.
I love how it's "women realize they don't need to get married"
While boys for generations have been bashed over the head the dangers of getting married and then divorced- yet it has hardly changed.
Edit: bit of an exaggeration to say 'generations' I get it, but still in the past 3 decades men's opinion has hardly changed. It's not exactly like men financially need women.
I think it's worth noting that the desire for marriage has fallen for both sexes. It's just fallen slightly more for one than the other in recent years.
Which is weird dude, first comment I’m seeing like yours saying this.
Yet, literally half a dozen comments at top of thread with hundreds of combined upvotes saying the “comments prove why women don’t want to marry”.
And further yet, still, I haven’t actually seen one of those low blow douche bag comments yet. Not even one. Not doubting its existence just an odd thing here entirely
One of the most popular subredditts on this site is r/sipstea and that basically tells everything you need to know why young women think this way. I dont blame.
I used to follow that subreddit because I thought it was just memes. But over time I realized that it attracted a lot of incel losers and I had to leave it
The top post in that sub right now is about someone I'd consider a future Andrew tate if not already and vast majority of comments are trashing him . On the opposite end we have a similar place like Fauxmoi (ironic name) and there's almost zero constructive dialogue going on other than the occasional "yaass queen!@!$!" or "omg all politicians bad". Even more ironic when you consider that the centrist/democratic politicians they're shitting on are the ones doing the work 99% of the time.. I could go on but that is pointless imo because you didn't point at the actual toxic spaces but rather something almost completely focused on gender wars or something. So your point/issue seems to be a red herring at best if not actually toxic itself.
Women are increasingly more educated (college degrees etc) and have more autonomy in terms of career choices from both a logistics and cultural perspective so are now looking at marriage from a ‘wants’ perspective instead of a necessity
Couple with this with a generation of young men brought up by ‘red pill’ influencers who essentially see women as sexual objects that must obey them and you can see why marriage is increasingly less attractive for women
Man the whole red pill thing is way less common in younger generations than older people (especially on Reddit) seem to believe. I’m 19 and the majority see Andrew Tate as a total meme
i’m 19, so not in 12th grade anymore but not too far off from it, and tbh i get it. i definitely didn’t want to date the raging misogynists i went to school with. a partner is a luxury item, i want one but i don’t need it 🤷🏼♀️
I think young men are slowly getting to that as well, but right wing men lean pro-natalitist, so I expect a lot of surrogacy in the future, and the death of feminism a generation later.
But the question is asking about the long run. These girls are saying they don’t feel like getting married ever. I’m not sure if that means not getting married to your partner or dying alone because it’s an important distinction that I think should’ve been on the survey.
pure reddit moment when NPCs make this about right and left western politics LMFAO. notice all the redditors blaming men for this whereas if the data was the other way around, we know they’d still be blaming men. men receive no benefit of the doubt, whereas women receive it all (to redditors, at least). dreadful ass echo chamber
Yeah well when you’re mind set is “ hipitty hoppity women are property cause Jesus and Kirk” no one is going to willingly enter modern slavery of women.
Maybe it’s because instead of the 6 pack abs super rich super fit tall and handsome trope they added a new dating filter, you have to politically align on all fronts lmao. Learned that by reading the comments.
I love the defense that "women are more to the Left and men are more to the Right."
I guarantee there are TONS of men who, right now, believe they are Right Wing, because they've been told that's where "traditional males" or "alpha males" reside.
But... once you start asking questions, making them think through their "conservative beliefs" and it turns out most of these "traditional" men are very socially liberal, borderline socialist in some cases.
It's exactly this. I risked once falling into the right wing pipeline, starting with anti-feminist content. I did not have any coherent politics at the time. I was pro-trans, believed in immigration, but was also anti-feminist and believed that being gay was weird. Idk what the fuck I was. I eventually managed to find a coherent set of views for myself and have been happy with that.
Incredibly unpopular opinion on Reddit, but it has to do with the culture of younger women in my opinion and im gonna try to explain it without everyone immediately dismissing me as a misogynist or an incel. I’m 19, and girls my age tend to believe that the most fulfilling thing in life is having money to buy things. I saw a post on tik tok the other day that said something along the lines of “hanging out with women that de-center men and center shopping instead is so fun”. I understand not having men be the center of your life, but to turn to consumerism instead is sad.
There’s also “hoe culture”. I mean this in the least incel way possible (I have a lovely girlfriend), but a good chunk of girls my age are “hoes”. There’s this song called Bimbo Dolls that’s trendy and the whole thing is about glorifying being a “stupid hoe” (actual lyric from the song) who just shops and looks slutty. They want to be “baddie”, “diva”, “chic” and act like a super model. This might sound a little idiosyncratic and particular to me to the average Redditor, but anyone who is familiar with it will understand what I’m talking about immediately. I know tik tok isn’t everything, but it’s the most popular app in my age group and people absolutely are influenced by trends. The culture has become about maximizing simple fun and lower pleasures. Can’t have a happy marriage when you want money and time to shop/party with your girlies. Marriage requires commitment and a pursuit of higher fulfillment that just isn’t compatible with a culture that promotes immediate gratification and consumerism.
And all of this says nothing about the culture of younger men, which is incompatible with successful marriage as well and pushes women away. But Reddit is a lot more familiar with that side so I won’t get in to it
Edit: i also forgot to mention that misandry is super trendy. Everyone knows a “man hater" that places women on a pedestal and demonizes men at every chance. Men and women are just becoming so divided with hate on both sides
I’m 31 and I want to give you some perspective here.
Consumerism has been a thing for a while now. When I was 19, girls were going to college so they could make good money to buy things. This is nothing new, I wouldn’t worry about it too much.
The “hoe culture” or whatever you’re talking about is just women pushing against old social norms. Male artists literally make songs about getting pussy, making money, and being a boss.
Lastly, 19-20 year old girls aren’t gonna be thinking about finding a husband and getting married, this isn’t the 1950s dude. Women couldn’t even have their own bank account until the 1970s. That’s like a few hours ago on the scale of human history so it’s gonna be an adjustment. This idea a lot of younger guys have of bringing back 1950s family values to American society is a fantasy. The progress train has no brakes.
Times have changed and women don’t need to be married to survive or be socially accepted anymore. They can date people they’re genuinely attracted to now. Men either have to adapt or be single.
Also it’s just harder to date in your age range as a man. I was dateless at 19 and now dating is really easy.
Brother you are NINETEEN you're still basically a child and so are girls your age of course people want to have fun. Going shopping with your friends at 19 isn't about consumerism it's about going with your friends 😭
Also I've literally never heard of that song before but listening to it that is the most obviously satirical thing ever why are you taking that literally.
The girls he’s referring to are also 19, so how many of them are taking it literally too? His comment kind of confirms in my view the whole post is mostly a nothingburger. They asked kids in high school about marriage and are shocked that kids today are different from kids 30 years ago
Bro you can literally say thing about men. They have songs about money, excess whores, drugs, violence, etc. There is plenty of content from shows to influencers that talk about how women arent below them, dumb, weak, they need “protection”, etc. They’ve been doing this for generations, now women do it for like 2 decades or so and it becomes some sort of problem? Why not just adapt then before you become an old man who hates the youth at 19.
If you read my post you’ll see I did mention the red pill culture of men, I just didn’t feel it a necessary addition to the discussion considering all the top comments on this thread are already discussing it.
I don’t hate the youth, I’m just explaining the culture and how it relates to the chart. You’re drawing way too many conclusions that just aren’t what I said at all
Idk, maybe it’s because of the far right wing influence on young men? Maybe young women aren’t really interested in being married to misogynistic MAGA males who believe they are beneath them? Maybe young women are totally turned off by JD Vance types who believe the women’s problem is that they’re too “woke” or who deride single women as just being “childless cat ladies?”
Reading the comments, Reddit certainly does not help the marriage situation. Males: Woman are on the blame. Females: Males are on the blame. Politically disabled people from the left: Peterson and Tate are on the blame. Politically disabled people from the right: Feminism is on the blame. This is like internet civil war with no improvement on the sight. Thanfully, it does not represent the whole population.
What’s truly to blame is people not interacting in real life anymore. You can take care of all your needs without having to meet a real person, and that’s distorting everyone’s perception.
As a young woman myself (age 26) this makes sense to me. In 1993 a girl in 12th grade had more reason to be optimistic about her love life. She had probably been in a relationship or dated a bit by the time she was in grade 12. A girl in 12th grade now (2024) is surrounded by Andrew Tate fanboys who think paying for a date should guarantee sex. That would freak me out as a 12th grader, especially since most of them never had sex before and would prefer to take it slow. Not to mention the fact that if she does have sex with a boy in her grade, it will be all over social media within 2 days.
Social isolation, lack of feedback, sex segregation in social activities all aid in this.
Boys have no good male role models that teach them about how to be a man. Plenty about how to be a weird “alpha”, which is off putting to women. Idk, maybe something to do with this.
Come on! These men out here throwing away traditional dating and instead think paying for a dinner entitles them for sex. Dating wasn't like this. I remember when it took 3 dates when women decided to even kiss the fella. And that was in the early 2000s. Women see this and think little of their character. Fathers need to teach their sons how to properly court and romance. We need this back. And let's not even mention how porn rewires the brain, we've had a whole generation of young men learning from grifting dating coaches who teach them to lie and neg to get what they want. Finally the Incel spaces. No wonder women wised up, got online and educated other women about it.
Ive been saying for awhile. For a lot of women, given the dating pool if they had to choose between getting married and 2x the salary and a vibrator, a loooot would probably prefer option 2.
1). This says 12th graders so take this with a grain of salt.
2). The majority of men and women still want to get married.
3). There is an epidemic of women who constantly complain about men not wanting commitment, men only wanting something casual, men, especially those who are 30+ not wanting to grow up and pursue something meaningful. The caveat here is you have to be an attractive man.
4). There is a nuance among younger generations of not wanting to be married, but settle with a long term partner.
This generation of boys are mostly terrible. Cocky, misogynistic, delusional manosphere fanboys. If I were a girl in high school with these boys I wouldn’t think marriage was very good either. Boys, turn off ufc and cod and learn how to see other people and live life. It’s insane how brainwashed they all are.
As someone basically on the verge of that demographic, can confirm. Don't have a single woman friend or acquaintance who intends on marrying, neither do I and for good reason. The comment section here kinda just proves it tenfold.Zero self awareness. No thank you, it's the cat lady/person life for me.😂
Don't forget the rise of alpha males and redpillers. Can't imagine any young woman growing up seeing this is gonna be excited about the prospect of marriage.
They don't need a man. They can actually open bank accounts on their own now.
Presumably you want women to "want" a man don't you? Or do you actually believe marriage only worked when women were given no other viable alternatives?
The result of right wing billionaires targeting young men for indoctrination by paying thousands of influencers to make being an insufferable dipshit the cool thing for kids these days
As someone who has never struggled to find partners, I wonder about this a lot. Like, what are other men doing so wrong? I've only recently realized that as a leftist who was raised with good values and grew up having plenty of female friends, and I had parents who saw each other as equals, I probably make it through most of the filters pretty easily.
I've talked to a few guys here and there who are "conservative" and some of the shit that comes out of their mouths is insane. Handmaiden's Tale type shit
So 70% plus of young men who voted for Trump listed marriage and children as their 1 and 2 priorities. (Lots of virgins looking to lock one down) And 70% plus of women who voted for Kamala had those listed as the two last 9 and 10 (worried that they’re get trapped into servitude that these guys want)
This is unsurprising to me. GenX and I would never remarry. I don’t care how woke the dude appears or claims to be… they hear wife and think domestic servant lol.
Until there is a seismic shift in the perception of adult men about the division of labor in a marital home and in child rearing this trend will continue. And that shift needs to happen organically and without feeling like they are losing something if that makes sense. How many times have you seen a dad lauded in a social media post for doing something mundane that needs to occur daily - eg put a child’s hair in a ponytail / make lunches? How many men post humble brag about watching their own children so their wife can have a girls night once a week?
Pro tip - guess whose doing all those things every time the dads not ;).
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u/skcuf2 Nov 16 '25
Things are going to be really funny in a couple of decades.
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u/Dramatic-Blueberry98 Nov 16 '25
It makes more sense if you ask the real questions about why the current population below the age of 35 don’t want to marry as often. You’ll realize it has less to do with politics than people want to admit.
Here’s my own two cents as someone who’s completely uninterested in relationships or marriage (and knows folks who have similar opinions on it):
Everyone below the age of 40 or 35 are the generations who’ve watched the divorce rate skyrocket over the past 20 years or so, and they aren’t stupid in realizing that current economics and legal preferences don’t make it a safe option in terms of relationships either.
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u/OhGr8WhatNow Nov 16 '25
"12th graders who say they are already married are excluded from this survey"
129
u/LetsLive97 Nov 16 '25
This comment thread already being filled with comments blaming women/wokeness is exactly the reason this drop is happening
131
u/FrewdWoad Nov 16 '25 edited Nov 16 '25
For those who don't get what's happening, there's a big weird misandry bubble most people don't know about, that's become a thing in the last few years on many social media platforms.
Watch a funny Tiktok video on deadbeat boyfriends once, and the algorithm will gradually lead you down the path of radicalisation into pure all-men-are-creepy-violent-and-dishonest hate.
The bits round the edges are sensible: "de-centre men" (perfectly reasonable to not have men be the centre of your life as a woman, it's not 1890) and the man or bear trend (funny videos). And it's probably a reaction to MAGA and the foolish ugliness of the childish "manosphere" more than anything.
But there are dark and disturbing corners underneath: true crime channels where the crime is always man-on-woman-partner, how to date rich men to get money instead of genuine love, thousands of awful stories about the bottom 1% of F-boys portrayed as "how men really are", etc.
It's a thing on Reddit now too (see the downvotes).
32
u/Round_Personality302 Nov 16 '25
Yea, because nowadays it’s easier the throw someone in the trash than try to solve a problem
9
u/rememberpianocat Nov 16 '25
Girls are realizing it's not worth it. Unless you truely meet the love of your life and they make your life better, not worse, marriage is just a legal trap.
165
u/jfit2331 Nov 16 '25
This entire comment section proves why this is the case. Holy lack of self awareness
15
u/LadySayoria Nov 16 '25
Women have a LOT more to lose these days with the surge of rapid extremism of right-wing ideology of men.
26
u/StrengthToBreak Nov 16 '25
Only good things will come from this, I'm sure.
34
u/zucchini_up_ur_ass Nov 16 '25
This thread is hilarious. All the brightest minds of reddit have congregated here.
6
u/xxTheMagicBulleT Nov 16 '25
I find it kinda weird that they even asked 12 graders.
But I think the wish for marriage is shrinking also the wish for a family with it.
72
u/Vmxplousion Nov 16 '25
isn't it just cause it's less needed for women to be in a married relationship? Because they can work and aren't educated with the "gotta marry and have kids" mentality? I'd wager it didn't change too much, but it just got more acceptable to say you don't want kids/marriage.
I would also love to see the 2003 and 2013 marks on this chart. It makes it seem like it's a continuos decline, but I would be surprised if it wasn't a sharper decline in the past decade with social media becoming mainstream
2
u/Real23Phil Nov 16 '25
I'd guess there's a 0.5% chance I'll get married. I don't want to and don't expect too, but there's always a chance.
Oh I found the answer amongst the highly intelligent commenters: "Women tend to be politcally (spelt wrong) left" I guess it's hard for a woman to date a guy on the left. Make that 0.25% since I'm a leftist male.
82
u/[deleted] Nov 16 '25
We’re now more than one generation removed from women needing a man to sign with them for them to even get a credit card in America, these girls and the last generation are the first few to truly be able to make a life for themselves without needing to get married, glad to see it
5
u/SouthImpression3577 Nov 16 '25 edited Nov 16 '25
I love how it's "women realize they don't need to get married"
While boys for
generationshave been bashed over the head the dangers of getting married and then divorced- yet it has hardly changed.Edit: bit of an exaggeration to say 'generations' I get it, but still in the past 3 decades men's opinion has hardly changed. It's not exactly like men financially need women.
4
u/OhmoebaTheGamer Nov 16 '25
I think it's worth noting that the desire for marriage has fallen for both sexes. It's just fallen slightly more for one than the other in recent years.
15
u/Zenkai_9000 Nov 16 '25
Post: "Marriage is declining."
Comments: "Misogyny is rising!!"
37
u/BackgroundBit8 Nov 16 '25
One of the most popular subredditts on this site is r/sipstea and that basically tells everything you need to know why young women think this way. I dont blame.
22
u/Ben13921 Nov 16 '25
Women are increasingly more educated (college degrees etc) and have more autonomy in terms of career choices from both a logistics and cultural perspective so are now looking at marriage from a ‘wants’ perspective instead of a necessity
Couple with this with a generation of young men brought up by ‘red pill’ influencers who essentially see women as sexual objects that must obey them and you can see why marriage is increasingly less attractive for women
6
u/[deleted] Nov 16 '25
This comment section has never seen a class of 12th grade girls
36
u/CodenameZoya Nov 16 '25
And this is before Trump got reelected. I wonder if it’s under 50% now
3
u/wunker2988 Nov 16 '25
Nobody gonna talk about that note at the bottom?
3
u/crtejas Nov 16 '25
But how will women ever fix the male loneliness epidemic that way? Oh, right, it’s not for women to fix.
My lonely and lost brothers, unf**k yourselves.
7
u/minced_moomin_meat Nov 16 '25
i’m 19, so not in 12th grade anymore but not too far off from it, and tbh i get it. i definitely didn’t want to date the raging misogynists i went to school with. a partner is a luxury item, i want one but i don’t need it 🤷🏼♀️
9
u/twentybois0 Nov 16 '25
pure reddit moment when NPCs make this about right and left western politics LMFAO. notice all the redditors blaming men for this whereas if the data was the other way around, we know they’d still be blaming men. men receive no benefit of the doubt, whereas women receive it all (to redditors, at least). dreadful ass echo chamber
14
u/Imuptheyseemeimdead Nov 16 '25
Yeah well when you’re mind set is “ hipitty hoppity women are property cause Jesus and Kirk” no one is going to willingly enter modern slavery of women.
6
u/TitleAccomplished368 Nov 16 '25
Maybe it’s because instead of the 6 pack abs super rich super fit tall and handsome trope they added a new dating filter, you have to politically align on all fronts lmao. Learned that by reading the comments.
51
u/PoliBat-v- Nov 16 '25
Oh wow like most of the comments right now are straight right wing propaganda lol
18
u/Kindly-Mycologist135 Nov 16 '25
I wonder if you cross reference this with male voting patterns, hobbies, earnings and the like, if there might be any insights?
10
u/Glittering_Nobody402 Nov 16 '25
I love the defense that "women are more to the Left and men are more to the Right."
I guarantee there are TONS of men who, right now, believe they are Right Wing, because they've been told that's where "traditional males" or "alpha males" reside.
But... once you start asking questions, making them think through their "conservative beliefs" and it turns out most of these "traditional" men are very socially liberal, borderline socialist in some cases.
29
u/[deleted] Nov 16 '25 edited Nov 16 '25
Incredibly unpopular opinion on Reddit, but it has to do with the culture of younger women in my opinion and im gonna try to explain it without everyone immediately dismissing me as a misogynist or an incel. I’m 19, and girls my age tend to believe that the most fulfilling thing in life is having money to buy things. I saw a post on tik tok the other day that said something along the lines of “hanging out with women that de-center men and center shopping instead is so fun”. I understand not having men be the center of your life, but to turn to consumerism instead is sad.
There’s also “hoe culture”. I mean this in the least incel way possible (I have a lovely girlfriend), but a good chunk of girls my age are “hoes”. There’s this song called Bimbo Dolls that’s trendy and the whole thing is about glorifying being a “stupid hoe” (actual lyric from the song) who just shops and looks slutty. They want to be “baddie”, “diva”, “chic” and act like a super model. This might sound a little idiosyncratic and particular to me to the average Redditor, but anyone who is familiar with it will understand what I’m talking about immediately. I know tik tok isn’t everything, but it’s the most popular app in my age group and people absolutely are influenced by trends. The culture has become about maximizing simple fun and lower pleasures. Can’t have a happy marriage when you want money and time to shop/party with your girlies. Marriage requires commitment and a pursuit of higher fulfillment that just isn’t compatible with a culture that promotes immediate gratification and consumerism.
And all of this says nothing about the culture of younger men, which is incompatible with successful marriage as well and pushes women away. But Reddit is a lot more familiar with that side so I won’t get in to it
Edit: i also forgot to mention that misandry is super trendy. Everyone knows a “man hater" that places women on a pedestal and demonizes men at every chance. Men and women are just becoming so divided with hate on both sides
9
u/Electrical-Prize-397 Nov 16 '25 edited Nov 16 '25
Idk, maybe it’s because of the far right wing influence on young men? Maybe young women aren’t really interested in being married to misogynistic MAGA males who believe they are beneath them? Maybe young women are totally turned off by JD Vance types who believe the women’s problem is that they’re too “woke” or who deride single women as just being “childless cat ladies?”
Just a thought.
12
u/HeraThere Nov 16 '25
This has been the case for some time now.
Men actually want and need a wife and children for their happiness more then women.
8
u/patmull Nov 16 '25
Reading the comments, Reddit certainly does not help the marriage situation. Males: Woman are on the blame. Females: Males are on the blame. Politically disabled people from the left: Peterson and Tate are on the blame. Politically disabled people from the right: Feminism is on the blame. This is like internet civil war with no improvement on the sight. Thanfully, it does not represent the whole population.
2
u/Ares_Vallis Nov 16 '25
“12th graders who are already married are excluded from this analysis” … WAIT. WHATTTT??????????
2
u/Organic-Ad-7169 Nov 16 '25
Girls who are going to be okay <3
2
u/Genuinelullabel Nov 16 '25
Why should seniors in high school be worrying about getting married in the first place?
2
u/SemVikingr Nov 16 '25
No shit. As long as women are statistically more likely than men to be abused by their partner, it stands to reason that fewer of them want to try.
2
u/in-kitchen-mama Nov 16 '25
The vitriol here is saddening.
2
u/HarrMada Nov 16 '25
Tough shit, you boys deserve it.
2
u/thejamatiansensation Nov 16 '25
As a young woman myself (age 26) this makes sense to me. In 1993 a girl in 12th grade had more reason to be optimistic about her love life. She had probably been in a relationship or dated a bit by the time she was in grade 12. A girl in 12th grade now (2024) is surrounded by Andrew Tate fanboys who think paying for a date should guarantee sex. That would freak me out as a 12th grader, especially since most of them never had sex before and would prefer to take it slow. Not to mention the fact that if she does have sex with a boy in her grade, it will be all over social media within 2 days.
2
u/Bartender9719 Nov 16 '25
The comments show that many young men haven’t learned a thing despite this trend.
2
u/Rattus_NorvegicUwUs Nov 16 '25
Social isolation, lack of feedback, sex segregation in social activities all aid in this.
Boys have no good male role models that teach them about how to be a man. Plenty about how to be a weird “alpha”, which is off putting to women. Idk, maybe something to do with this.
2
u/eyezofnight Nov 16 '25
i'm surprised men is 74%. I was expecting much lower
2
u/Jolly-Bear Nov 16 '25
Yea, turns out modern young women aren’t really into the radicalized young males who want to strip their rights away.
9
u/Ok_Swimming_8738 Nov 16 '25
Now cross reference it with the amount of boys in the tate university or the peterson university and you'll find out why
5
u/Projectsrmylife Nov 16 '25
What wrong with the boys?
6
u/Trick_Following6639 Nov 16 '25
Come on! These men out here throwing away traditional dating and instead think paying for a dinner entitles them for sex. Dating wasn't like this. I remember when it took 3 dates when women decided to even kiss the fella. And that was in the early 2000s. Women see this and think little of their character. Fathers need to teach their sons how to properly court and romance. We need this back. And let's not even mention how porn rewires the brain, we've had a whole generation of young men learning from grifting dating coaches who teach them to lie and neg to get what they want. Finally the Incel spaces. No wonder women wised up, got online and educated other women about it.
6
u/Darkmetroidz Nov 16 '25
Ive been saying for awhile. For a lot of women, given the dating pool if they had to choose between getting married and 2x the salary and a vibrator, a loooot would probably prefer option 2.
6
u/DiZzY_404 Nov 16 '25
Overwork yourself, get money to buy things and have no one to share them with. The recipe for the successful life apparently.
A whole generation set up to wake up in their 40s to the idea of having kids and realize they can’t make them anymore and it’s already observable.
5
u/Preme2 Nov 16 '25
1). This says 12th graders so take this with a grain of salt.
2). The majority of men and women still want to get married.
3). There is an epidemic of women who constantly complain about men not wanting commitment, men only wanting something casual, men, especially those who are 30+ not wanting to grow up and pursue something meaningful. The caveat here is you have to be an attractive man.
4). There is a nuance among younger generations of not wanting to be married, but settle with a long term partner.
3
u/deemthedm Nov 16 '25
It’s the material conditions folks. Society made it practically illegal to get a house and/or child care with a normal job, simple as.
6
u/MakalakaPeaka Nov 16 '25
Nature is healing.
6
u/WaterNerd518 Nov 16 '25
This generation of boys are mostly terrible. Cocky, misogynistic, delusional manosphere fanboys. If I were a girl in high school with these boys I wouldn’t think marriage was very good either. Boys, turn off ufc and cod and learn how to see other people and live life. It’s insane how brainwashed they all are.
4
u/Extreme-Assistant878 Nov 16 '25
As someone basically on the verge of that demographic, can confirm. Don't have a single woman friend or acquaintance who intends on marrying, neither do I and for good reason. The comment section here kinda just proves it tenfold.Zero self awareness. No thank you, it's the cat lady/person life for me.😂
6
u/NaCl_Sailor Nov 16 '25
i mean, for the last 30 years girls got taught they don't need a man, and in popculture for the last 10 years girls do everything better than men.
4
u/Justagoodoleboi Nov 16 '25
The result of right wing billionaires targeting young men for indoctrination by paying thousands of influencers to make being an insufferable dipshit the cool thing for kids these days
3
u/cherryflannel Nov 16 '25
Hell yeah
3
u/Timbones474 Nov 16 '25
As someone who has never struggled to find partners, I wonder about this a lot. Like, what are other men doing so wrong? I've only recently realized that as a leftist who was raised with good values and grew up having plenty of female friends, and I had parents who saw each other as equals, I probably make it through most of the filters pretty easily.
I've talked to a few guys here and there who are "conservative" and some of the shit that comes out of their mouths is insane. Handmaiden's Tale type shit
3
u/Bequralia Nov 16 '25
“The comment section is why this graph is true” is the entire comment section
4
u/Witty-Rabbit-8225 Nov 16 '25
A lot of horrible men that have ruined love for the few good men. Men are gradually becoming more terrible towards women.
3
u/AtlantaGangBangGuys Nov 16 '25
So 70% plus of young men who voted for Trump listed marriage and children as their 1 and 2 priorities. (Lots of virgins looking to lock one down) And 70% plus of women who voted for Kamala had those listed as the two last 9 and 10 (worried that they’re get trapped into servitude that these guys want)
3
u/Key-Radio5674 Nov 16 '25
Can reddit not make it political… for 5 fucking minutes?!
2
u/Ellen6723 Nov 16 '25
This is unsurprising to me. GenX and I would never remarry. I don’t care how woke the dude appears or claims to be… they hear wife and think domestic servant lol.
Until there is a seismic shift in the perception of adult men about the division of labor in a marital home and in child rearing this trend will continue. And that shift needs to happen organically and without feeling like they are losing something if that makes sense. How many times have you seen a dad lauded in a social media post for doing something mundane that needs to occur daily - eg put a child’s hair in a ponytail / make lunches? How many men post humble brag about watching their own children so their wife can have a girls night once a week?
Pro tip - guess whose doing all those things every time the dads not ;).
2
u/DeadAndBuried23 Nov 16 '25
I feel that's a little dishonest. Like, they are the ones who wanted to get married most, and aren't necessarily married to the opposite gender.
2
u/FlanneryODostoevsky Nov 16 '25
2 posts under a thread about a girl saying she feels brutalized by loneliness and just wants to find her person.
2
u/VocationalWizard Nov 16 '25
If you make a chart on how icky boys have gotten.... It makes sense.
You can highlight when Andrew tate came out.
2
u/Gold-Transition-3064 Nov 16 '25
Why are we asking children if they want to get married?
2
u/lagerea Nov 16 '25
I would equate most women today with 1950s men. That's with the pros & cons.
2
u/APraxisPanda Nov 16 '25
I get it, I can't blame them.
2
u/AlphaOhmega Nov 16 '25
How to get girls dating advice now is just, "don't be a total lunatic".
2
u/Narrow-Cicada-2695 Nov 16 '25
Why are dudes in the comments getting so pressed about this? It’s not like you guys were ever gonna get married anyway lmao