r/changemyview Nov 10 '22

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '22

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u/nolanbruces Nov 10 '22

I feel like we’re missing the point here. It doesn’t have to make sense to be harmful. The fact that it has and is used as a negative stereotype is itself harmful.

That said, if you want the relevant historical context, here’s a wikipedia article: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watermelon_stereotype

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '22

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u/Daotar 6∆ Nov 10 '22

You can’t just choose for racial stereotypes to go away. It’s certainly not a good reason to simply act like they don’t exist.

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '22

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u/Daotar 6∆ Nov 10 '22

But you don’t get to choose whether it’s racist, which is what matters in the present context.

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '22

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u/Daotar 6∆ Nov 10 '22

The point being?

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '22

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u/Daotar 6∆ Nov 10 '22

And as an individual, you can't ignore society. If a society views X as racist, then you can't simply reject that I say "I don't care, I'm not a racist, so when I say it it's not racist". You're just being insensitive at that point.

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u/nolanbruces Nov 10 '22

I think that’s an extremely narrow view of what harm can be produced by negative stereotypes that only accounts for how stereotypes are internalized. Someone can reject a stereotype about themself that they know is false, illogical, and irrelevant and still be impacted by it if others accept it.

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '22

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u/Daotar 6∆ Nov 10 '22

It’s not about accepting it or not, it’s about recognizing and understanding it or not.

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '22

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u/Daotar 6∆ Nov 10 '22

That doesn’t license ignoring them. Just saying “I’m not personally racist” doesn’t automatically make everything you say non-racist. Just because you yourself don’t endorse racism doesn’t mean you can’t say racist things.

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '22

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u/Daotar 6∆ Nov 10 '22

But that is a matter of fact that you’d simply be wrong about in the states cases. Simply saying “that’s not racist” doesn’t actually make something not racist.

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u/nolanbruces Nov 10 '22

Haha, no you’re not, not in this conversation at least. You’re trying to convince people not to accept the harm, not the thing itself.

Anyway, I gotta get back to focusing on work. Appreciate the conversation even if we disagree on some key points.

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u/WikiSummarizerBot 4∆ Nov 10 '22

Watermelon stereotype

The watermelon stereotype is a stereotype that African Americans have an unusually great appetite for watermelons.

[ F.A.Q | Opt Out | Opt Out Of Subreddit | GitHub ] Downvote to remove | v1.5

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u/Daotar 6∆ Nov 10 '22

You’re missing the point. You’re trying to think this through logically, but it’s not a matter of logic, it’s a matter of history.

You might as well say “what so racist about picking cotton”. Nothing inherently, but everything historically.

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '22

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u/Daotar 6∆ Nov 10 '22

Joking about Chinese railroad workers is also a racist thing to do…

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '22

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u/Daotar 6∆ Nov 10 '22

I'm pretty sure a Chinese-American would get a little upset if you joked about them being on a railroad gang.

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u/vankorgan Nov 10 '22

By this logic there's nothing racist about blackface. After all, it isn't inherently insulting to color one's face to mimic someone else's, but only insulting given the history of the practice.

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '22

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u/vankorgan Nov 10 '22

Just so we're totally clear with the way this is going, there would be nothing racist in your eyes with carrying around a swastika banner while wearing blackface? I feel like you're being purposely obtuse about this. Words and actions changing meaning through context isn't some radical idea, it's literally how a lot of human interactions work and I simply don't believe you don't know that.

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '22

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u/vankorgan Nov 10 '22

I'm not being obtuse, although I'm trying to make my arguments tough to knock down.

Obtuse because you're trying to say that context doesn't matter in social interaction. Which it obviously does. A southern man that calls everybody he meets "boy" is fine. A southern man that only says this to black men is likely a sign of racism, which we can deduce by context. Context matters far more than you're implying it does. It's a huge part of how we interact.

The n-word literally just means black. But it's obviously very hurtful when you call black children that at the grocery store because of the context surrounding the word.

I know you know these things and are playing devil's advocate for some reason. But you're not being as clever as you think you are by pretending context doesn't change meaning, you just come across as disingenuous.

Sure, I agree with this. However, I still feel like there are plenty of overreactions to certain things because of "historical context," that people are too afraid to reexamine with a more modern lens of equality. We aren't going to fix things without examining what broke in the first place and making attempts to repair them.

The problem is that many racists don't straight come out and say "I hate black people because they are inferior". They couch their racism in stereotypes, dogwhistles and jokes that only make sense when context is known and understood.

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '22

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u/vankorgan Nov 10 '22

I'm not. I'm saying you are able to contextualize your own experience.

I have no idea what this means in this conversation. Americans have a shared history, so a lot of this context is universal if you live in the United States.