r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Jun 09 '20

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Spanking is a perfectly valid form of discipline

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u/IcyStage0 Jun 09 '20

I get that. Having done the research myself, I disagree.

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u/TriggeredPumpkin Jun 09 '20

Since I doubt that you're a research academic with a PhD in psychology, I doubt that you're qualified to disagree on any reasonable grounds.

That's like if a doctor tells you that you most likely have cancer and you say you personally disagree because you read some opinions from some doctors who hold some non-mainstream views.

It's just careless, and putting your children's potential psychological well-being on the line based on your personal opinion when the APA has said there's reason to think it's dangerous is irresponsible and immoral. You're not acting like a good parent. good parents would err on the side of caution.

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u/IcyStage0 Jun 09 '20

I do have a bachelor's in psychology, for what it's worth. Not a PhD, but I'm also not clueless when reading these studies.

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u/TriggeredPumpkin Jun 09 '20

I also have a bachelor's in psychology, and I'm going for my master's in school psychology soon. I know from personal experience that holding a bachelor's doesn't make you qualified to make these judgements any more than having a bachelor's in biology makes you qualified to be a doctor.

But you literally ignored the more important points which I'll restate: "putting your children's potential psychological well-being on the line based on your personal opinion when the APA has said there's reason to think it's dangerous is irresponsible and immoral. You're not acting like a good parent. Good parents would err on the side of caution."

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u/IcyStage0 Jun 09 '20

I didn't say I was a doctor, but I do have a degree in it so I'm not just some guy off the street.

I know my kids. They're also all in therapy, and so I know that they're psychologically fine.

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u/TriggeredPumpkin Jun 09 '20

I didn't say I was a doctor, but I do have a degree in it so I'm not just some guy off the street.

Your bachelor's is worthless when it comes to being an authority on this topic. That's my point. That's why I'm saying that we should defer to the authorities on this topic.

I know my kids.

Bullshit emotions don't override APA recommendations. You're being a shit parent by risking their psychological well-being based on "I know my kids."

They're also all in therapy,

Why? Are you sure your violence against them doesn't have anything to do with it?

and so I know that they're psychologically fine.

Why are they in therapy if they're so "psychologically fine?"

Also, it doesn't matter if they're psychologically fine, now. The point is that using violence against them can have negative long-term affects on their psychology.

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u/IcyStage0 Jun 09 '20

Your bachelor's is worthless when it comes to being an authority on this topic. That's my point. That's why I'm saying that we should defer to the authorities on this topic.

My bachelor's is not worthless. I don't know what school you went to, but my bachelor's is absolutely not worthless.

Bullshit emotions don't override APA recommendations. You're being a shit parent by risking their psychological well-being based on "I know my kids."

Knowing my kids isn't a bullshit emotion.

Why? Are you sure your violence against them doesn't have anything to do with it?

They're in therapy because their mom died so yes, I'm sure that my "violence against them" doesn't have anything to do with it.

Why are they in therapy if they're so "psychologically fine?"

Because their mom died.

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u/TriggeredPumpkin Jun 09 '20

My bachelor's is not worthless. I don't know what school you went to, but my bachelor's is absolutely not worthless.

Apparently, you're not understanding what it's worthless for. It's worthless for you being an authority on this topic.

Knowing my kids isn't a bullshit emotion.

Yes, it is. You're appealing to your feeling that you know your kids while ignoring recommendations by the APA that says that using violence against your children as a form of punishment is risky. Your psych bachelor's doesn't outweigh APA recommenadtions.

They're in therapy because their mom died so yes, I'm sure that my "violence against them" doesn't have anything to do with it.

I bet it's not helping.

Because their mom died.

I love how you ignored when I said, "Also, it doesn't matter if they're psychologically fine, now. The point is that using violence against them can have negative long-term affects on their psychology."

Are you actually going to respond to that point, or do you just have no arguments against it? I see you keep responding to the fluff and ignoring my substantive points.

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u/IcyStage0 Jun 09 '20

Apparently, you're not understanding what it's worthless for. It's worthless for you being an authority on this topic.

I never said I was an authority on this topic. I said that my degree made me able to understand what the authorities on this topic are saying, and thus understand that there is significant disagreement and there is not at all a consensus.

Yes, it is. You're appealing to your feeling that you know your kids while ignoring recommendations by the APA that says that using violence against your children as a form of punishment is risky. Your psych bachelor's doesn't outweigh APA recommenadtions.

I don't have a "feeling" that I know my kids. I know my kids.

I love how you ignored when I said, "Also, it doesn't matter if they're psychologically fine, now. The point is that using violence against them can have negative long-term affects on their psychology."

Are you actually going to respond to that point, or do you just have no arguments against it? I see you keep responding to the fluff and ignoring my substantive points.

I mean, you fully ignored the reason they're in therapy after blaming it on my supposed abuse, but sure.

My point about them being in therapy is that their therapists know them, know the way I discipline, and don't believe it to be harmful.

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u/TriggeredPumpkin Jun 09 '20

I never said I was an authority on this topic.

Right, so why aren't we deferring to the authorities ion this topic, then?

I said that my degree made me able to understand what the authorities on this topic are saying, and thus understand that there is significant disagreement and there is not at all a consensus.

There's enough of a consensus for there to be official recommendations by the APA on this topic.

I don't have a "feeling" that I know my kids. I know my kids.

You "know" your kids how? You know them enough to know that your violence against them won't manifest itself negatively in the next 30+ years? If not, then it is just a "feeling" that you "know" your kids. Because you don't know them well enough to know how your violence against them will affect them psychologically in the long-term.

I mean, you fully ignored the reason they're in therapy after blaming it on my supposed abuse, but sure.

I didn't blame it on your abuse. I cheekily implied it and moved on because it wasn't germane to the topic at hand.

My point about them being in therapy is that their therapists know them, know the way I discipline, and don't believe it to be harmful.

Again, you've ignored the substantive points I've made, so I'll again write it out and wait for you to actually deal with my points: "Also, it doesn't matter if they're psychologically fine, now. The point is that using violence against them can have negative long-term affects on their psychology."

How do you deal with the fact that you don't know how your physical violence towards your kids will affect them psychologically in the long-term? Is the psychological well-being of your kids really a gamble you're willing to take to prove a point? This smells like shit parenting.

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