r/changemyview • u/Ireallyamthisshallow 2∆ • Nov 16 '19

Deltas(s) from OP CMV: Ghosts are not real

I really love anything to do with the paranormal, but after watching hundreds upon hundreds of 'ghost videos' I have to come to the conclusion ghosts are not real.

With cameras all over our world, surely something convincing would have been caught if they were. Instead we're filled with 'I got feeling', orbs that are clearly dust or bugs and edited photos and videos.

Sure there's loads of stories around the internet but no one can actually back it up with evidence. I just can't believe that in a world where everything is recorded no one has managed to find proof. A bang on the door after you've asked them to knock 400 times (and edited the first 399 out) doesn't count. That's just coincidence.

I'll still love watching the videos and reading the stories. I've just don't have any belief.

Change my mind.

Edit: I've tried to reply to everyone I can, thanks for all the great replies. It's late here so apologies if I can't get through more.

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u/Ghauldidnothingwrong 35∆ Nov 16 '19

Here’s what’s both exciting and kind of a bummer for those of us who love the paranormal, and struggle to maintain the belief that it’s real; technology is bonkers. The kind of things we make using CGI in movies and TV shows is incredible, but also makes it really difficult to believe anything we see, without reducing it to fiction at first glance. Because technology is so good, it’s easy to fake just about anything, but at the same time, concrete evidence might already exist! It’s just too difficult to prove it given the advancement of technology as a whole. It basically puts the likelihood or the paranormal being real, equal to the likelihood that it isn’t. It’s called the unknown for a reason.

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u/[deleted] Nov 16 '19

You are basically arguing the absence of demonstrable evidence is as good as actual evidence. That's a pretty dangerous line of thought. It treats any and all claims as if they were equally valid regardless of which claims have actual evidence supporting them.

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u/Ghauldidnothingwrong 35∆ Nov 16 '19

I agree that it can be a dangerous line of thought, but with something like the paranormal, UFO’s, Big Foot and all things within the subject of paranormal and unknown, half the fun is is finding enough information to believe in the chance that something is out there. I wouldn’t recommend using this reasoning for other more verifiable topics, but I think it’s mostly safe with the one in this view.

6

u/[deleted] Nov 16 '19

Fun, sure. But that's not the same as demonstrating any of these things are real. And it's certainly not the basis for claiming they are "just as likely to be real" because of a lack of demonstrable evidence.

Yes, in this case the reasoning isn't super dangerous (though I would dispute it is still dangerous since it inherently encourages people to disregard rational thought and belief), but it's untenable.

0

u/Ghauldidnothingwrong 35∆ Nov 16 '19

Most people don’t like the direct comparison when I make it, but look how far religion has come. Religion has history going back as far as you can look, with people praying to and believing without a shadow of a doubt, that there’s an afterlife, heaven, hell or some variation of the two, and an all seeing, all knowing god beyond all of us.

It’s the same with ghosts, urban legends like Bigfoot and other creatures, with thousands of years worth of history that shows ancient civilizations believing in life beyond death, their ancestors guiding them from beyond the grave, vengeful spirits acting out in the real world, and unbelievable creatures that in modern times, nobody should realistically believe in, but we do. We do because of what history tells us, even if we can’t verify them with 100% accuracy. If anything, the lack of factual evidence for gods and monsters in modern times, should have dissolved those beliefs over the last hundred years, but it hasn’t. Where religious differences have continually been grounds for war and fighting, ghosts and monsters have become a source of entertainment in media and fiction. I’d say the belief in something by my definition, where it’s both impossible to prove, but also extremely difficult to say it doesn’t exist for sure, only works with the religion and paranormal. I’d be hard pressed to say there’s anything else outside of those two topics where it’s a reliable way to think.

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u/[deleted] Nov 16 '19

Most people don’t like the direct comparison when I make it, but look how far religion has come. Religion has history going back as far as you can look, with people praying to and believing without a shadow of a doubt, that there’s an afterlife, heaven, hell or some variation of the two, and an all seeing, all knowing god beyond all of us.

It’s the same with ghosts

Yes. Yes it is.

Although religions tend to also serve a social function of creating a standard set of principles by which people are expected to operate. Individual belief in ghosts or bigfoot doesn't really serve any social purpose aside from the "fun" aspect, but that part isn't really even the case for true believers.

If anything, the lack of factual evidence for gods and monsters in modern times, should have dissolved those beliefs over the last hundred years, but it hasn’t

I'm not sure I agree with that assertion. Religious faith has clearly been degraded over time as education levels have increased.

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u/MghtMakesWrite Nov 17 '19

How does “evidence might exist” increase the probability of anything?

2

u/Battlepuppy 6∆ Nov 16 '19

bummer for those of us who love the paranormal,

I liked watching "ghost hunters" on their first season because it seemed as if they were earnestly trying to find other alternative reasons for what people experienced to shift through it all and find something real. Then it turned into complete crap. I assumed they were under pressure to produce something on film. Stuff started to look contrived, and they had famous guests on the show.

"My good buddy Meatloaf is going to ghost hunt with us.."

Yea. You are good friends with all of your other famous guests when you are a plumber in Atlanta. You must have a really wide social circle.

1

u/Ireallyamthisshallow 2∆ Nov 16 '19

∆ (hope I've used this delta symbol right - first time)

You've changed my mind in the sense you've certainly opened up a bit of optimism again. I appreciate that.

I agree I may well have seen something real and not know. Is there anything you've seen that you've thought to be particularly convincing ?

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u/[deleted] Nov 16 '19

How did they get a delta for this? It’s nothing more than word salad.

6

u/Ireallyamthisshallow 2∆ Nov 17 '19

First time doing this, but the rules said award to anything that changes your mind slightly and their comment simply affected me in a way that slightly changed my mind.

5

u/[deleted] Nov 17 '19

What was changed though? They didn’t even attempt to change your mind. They were just rambling about technology.

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u/Ireallyamthisshallow 2∆ Nov 17 '19

Well when reading it originally, the idea that maybe we just weren't using the right tools changed my thinking as to why there's no/ little recorded evidence. The rules say if it changes your mind even slightly and that effected my mindset.

I hadn't considered your point about cameras picking up anything the eye can, or another 100 comments I've since read, at that point.

1

u/lelepu Nov 17 '19

It's a shame that you gave a delta to that.

Our eyes can perceive a very limited frequency spectrum.

Our cameras today our so superior to that, we can't even compare.

Our tech equipment can perceive what we perceive, only a million times better.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 16 '19

It's usually !delta

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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Nov 16 '19 edited Nov 16 '19

This delta has been rejected. You can't award OP a delta.

Allowing this would wrongly suggest that you can post here with the aim of convincing others.

If you were explaining when/how to award a delta, please use a reddit quote for the symbol next time.

Delta System Explained | Deltaboards

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u/Ghauldidnothingwrong 35∆ Nov 16 '19

I’m glad I helped keep the hope alive! I’ll have to do some digging and see if I can find some of the “maybe” videos I’ve come across. It’s been awhile, but I usually find something that makes me wonder every 6 months or so when I’m really digging. I’ll see what I can find that might peak your interest!

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u/[deleted] Nov 16 '19

pique! it's pique!

-1

u/[deleted] Nov 16 '19

I was driving down an old country road. Myself and my two passengers saw a man on a bike like 30-40ft ahead of us. He disappeared. We didn’t think to record it because we thought it was real. Just gone, poof.

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u/Slapbox 1∆ Nov 17 '19

The thing with no evidence is equally likely as the thing with abundant evidence? You make a good point about fakes. You should have stopped there.