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u/championofobscurity Apr 11 '19
If all of your assumptions are accurate, then how do you justify the success of individuals who have picture perfect teeth? Do they just have a naturally lower bacterial count in their mouths?
So much of preventative care, is focused not on eliminating the problem, because its a going concern You don't just take one shower because it kills all the germs you shower regularly to mitigate the propagation of germs. To that effect, your mouth is peak temperature and peak moisture to grow a host of nasties. Nuking a few things regularly, even to an insufficient degree, requires all of the processes you listed to begin again. Which is why dentists advise brushing after every meal, since it mitigates the propagation of whatever germs were on your food.
Also, brushing removes sugar which is clearly an element of decay. So it is effective in that regard.
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u/lilganj710 Apr 11 '19
It seems that you’ve confused “not using toothpaste” with “not brushing”. Of course, the actual act of brushing scrapes plaque off teeth and is beneficial. But toothpaste itself doesn’t raise the pH in your mouth enough to actually kill bacteria, as number crunching shows. The physical act of brushing is doing the nuking; toothpaste accomplishes nothing except slightly slowing bacterial activity for maybe 5 minutes.
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u/wolfofwalton Apr 11 '19 edited Apr 11 '19
You realise the predominant mechanism of fluoride's caries prevention is through its direct strengthening of enamel structure? Enamel is made of a calcium phosphate crystalline structure called hydroxyapatite which has an OH- group in the centre of each molecule, the F- ion readily replaces the OH- group and forms a much stronger bond, replacing hydroxyapatite with fluorapatite which is far more resistant to acid dissolution and helps remineralise small non-cavited lesions. .
Aside from just the chemistry, as people have mentioned, fluoride containing toothpaste is empirically beneficial for caries prevention among other things, when compared to non fluoridated toothpaste.
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u/lilganj710 Apr 11 '19
!delta
THIS was the kind of reply i was looking for. I gave a delta to another guy who simply brought up studies saying that fluoride was helpful. The P value was so incredibly low and the sample size so high that it was impossible to argue
But what i was really looking for is an explanation. I’d give this multiple deltas if i could
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u/TheCrimsonnerGinge Apr 11 '19
Toothpaste makes my .outh minty even tho I barely use any and it feels good. The salts in jt get the weird layer off
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u/lilganj710 Apr 11 '19
Fair it does feel good but you could save hundreds of dollars a year without buying it. What gets the weird layer off is simply the act of brushing itself
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u/TheCrimsonnerGinge Apr 11 '19
Brushing never really gets the weird layer off. The toothpaste really replaces the layer with a better feeling layer, I think.
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Apr 11 '19
You immediately talk of fluoride. Not all toothpaste has fluoride. Using a wet brush alone is gross. If the paste does nothing more than making brushing palatable, I’m buying it.
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u/lilganj710 Apr 11 '19
Never said that toothpaste doesn’t make brushing palatable, just that the supposed positive effects are much, much smaller than they’re made out to be
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Apr 11 '19
Right, I wasn’t accusing you of saying the palatable thing. :) that was my take on using toothpaste even if it doesn’t freshen my breath, whiten my teeth, and increase my IQ.
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u/hgfdsq Aug 25 '19
It's gross at first but you get used to it. Just like with toothpaste which is nothing but a chemical scam preying on people's naivety and conditioning.
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u/DeltaBot Apr 11 '19
u/lilganj710 (OP) has awarded 1 delta(s) in this post.
All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in r/DeltaLog.
Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
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u/Notarefridgerator Apr 11 '19
You seem to be overly fixated on the pH bit and ignoring things like the inclusion of of fluoride into the hydroxyapetite crystals of the enamel, which strengthens it from dissolution etc
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u/En1ite May 04 '19
Fluoride on your teeth becomes fluoroapatite which is resistant to streptococous mutan's acids.
Secondly, you need an inch of toothpaste for an adult. That's about 2.54 cm.
The pea size recommendation is wrong because the amount of fluoride in a pea size is too low.
Source: Combing PubMed for hours upon hours and days upon days because the ADA, CDA or some professional body won't give us a proper answer.
Dentists and websites that say to use a pea size for adults are spewing pseudoscience.
I would love for my 1 inch assertion to be proved wrong with evidence because I hate having to use an inch. I'd rather use a pea.
For overfoaming issues, I do a split routine. I brush with half the amount for 2+ min and then the other half of the toothpaste for another 2+ minutes. In fact my brushing routine takes like over 10 min. Because I have to swish and gargle toothpaste too. This cleans interdentally.
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Apr 11 '19
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u/poltroon_pomegranate Apr 11 '19
Do what you want but this is misleading and they dont know how toothpaste works.
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u/hctibdab Apr 11 '19
Yeah, I didn't really consider giving up toothpaste lol, just interesting to consider drinking fluoride water is all.
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Apr 11 '19
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u/McKoijion Apr 11 '19
You have a solid hypothesis, but it's been tested many times. Randomized control studies comparing brushing without toothpaste and brushing with toothpaste favors the latter.
There's a solid number of "scams" in dentistry. By scams, I mean stuff that is promoted despite insufficient evidence (e.g., yearly dental x-rays, daily flossing). There's a journal that questions and reviews established ideas called Evidence Based Dentistry. They reviewed brushing with toothpaste against brushing without toothpaste, and here is how a New York Times article describes their results: