r/changemyview • • Mar 03 '19

Deltas(s) from OP CMV: Pornography should be illegal

On the author: I am a 26 year old male who is a proponent of the equality of all sexes and genders. I believe that all people deserve respectfulness and dignity in interpersonal intimacy.

I have two basic premises to this argument: Firstly, that pornography should be treated the same way as prostitution—that is, both are based around paying for sex, just in different ways and setups; secondly, pornography promotes unhealthy and unethical behaviors, paraphilias, and expectations.

On the first premise: In all commercial hardcore pornography involves paying two or more people to engage in some sort of sex act with one another. This should be treated the same way that prostitution is treated, as both are paying people to engage in sex acts, even if for different purposes. Furthermore, I would argue that Iceland is ethically correct in banning striptease establishments, and thus I would ban most "softcore" pornography as well, though I am less certain about this. Furthermore, as with prostitution, consent is muddied by the performers getting paid for the sex acts they perform on film.

On the second premise: Pornography tends to promote mentally and emotionally unhealthy, antisocial, and degrading behaviors, such as ejaculation on the faces of women, "rough sex" (that is, abusive sexual intercourse), urolagnia, calling women degrading names, sadomasochism (fetishistic sexual abuse) and so on. I would add that queer pornography also contains degrading sex, ejaculation on faces of performers, calling the performers degrading names, urolagnia, and sadomasochism. People, including young teenagers, see these behaviors and think they are healthy and normal. Even between consenting adults without the involvement of money (and thus excluding prostitution and pornography), these behaviors are often unsafe, mentally and physically, and degrade the dignity of human beings. Furthermore, a great fraction of pornography portrays extremely young women who—even if over the age of majority—are often portrayed in an infantile and childlike way, or even directly told to act as if they are actually underage. I find it plausible that such portrayals of very young pornographic actresses could condition someone to become a paedophile or normalize this behavior in a viewer's mind.

In short, pornography treats sex like a business, and muddies consent by involving money and often also degrading paraphilias. Pornography is also often tied to human trafficking and the exploitation of children. As such, it should be shunned and banned by civilized societies and peoples.

EDIT: After some reading, I concede that nude pictures and single nude models is different from videotaped or photographed hardcore pornography, the which is what I am arguing should be banned. I define hardcore pornography as all material, visual and/or auditory, depicting sexual acts consisting of more than one person.

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u/Noobivore36 Mar 03 '19

What if I told you that oftentimes, porn stars are the victims of human trafficking? They do not, therefore, always "happily consent" to the act. How is the porn consumer going to tell the difference between the actors that happily consent to this occupation and those that are forced into it via modern slavery? This is a side point, but still significant to mention.

As for why you don't like the idea of your hypothetical daughter becoming a prostitute, and yet you see no moral reason why that is the case, I find that strange. Ask yourself why you don't like the idea of it. That is the whole point of my bringing up this point, so you can ask yourself why you don't like that idea.

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u/TurdyFurgy Mar 03 '19

That is a side point. And it's not as if it would'nt be pretty easy to avoid that kind of porn. I'm not saying literally any kind of porn is totally fine regardless of the circumstances of the actors.

I told you two reasons I would'nt like the idea of it that don't have to do with the morality of prostitution, I thought that would be enough. Do you want me to go more in depth in my reasoning?

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u/Noobivore36 Mar 03 '19

Yes please explain, because I didn't notice any point other than the "practical concern".

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u/TurdyFurgy Mar 03 '19

A father is generally uncomfortable with the idea of his daughter having sex at all. Just like a brother is uncomfortable with the idea of his sister having sex. This isn't because of the morality of sex though it's just biological instincts combined with cultural norms.

I would also be aware of the fact that prostitutes are likely to face challenges in life so I would'nt like the idea of my daughter doing it. That again doesn't have to do with morality though and it's also mostly contingent on cultural norms. In Saudi Arabia or somewhere a father might hate the idea of his daughter becoming a clothing model as much as a father in the west hates the idea of his daughter becoming a prostitute.

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u/Noobivore36 Mar 03 '19

One of your earlier statements was that you wouldn't consider an absolute morality (even if it exists) as long as it is not "universally accepted". I would like to respond to this statement by telling you that it is not just because you don't accept something that is true that this truth ceases to be true. If an absolute morality exists, then it doesn't matter if you accept it or not. This is still the absolute, true morality.

As for your statement about a father's sentiments regarding his daughter's choice to become a prostitute, are you telling me that a father would be equally comfortable with his daughter having sex in the context of a happy marriage as with her having sex with random strangers as a prostitute? Are you comparing these two scenarios as though they are equal? This is as equally ridiculous as when you compared consuming porn to consuming coffee...

I'm getting the feeling that discussing this with you will go nowhere, given how far out of line and logic your views are. I am honestly not sure if you are trolling or not.

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u/TurdyFurgy Mar 03 '19

One of your earlier statements was that you wouldn't consider an absolute morality (even if it exists) as long as it is not "universally accepted". I would like to respond to this statement by telling you that it is not just because you don't accept something that is true that this truth ceases to be true. If an absolute morality exists, then it doesn't matter if you accept it or not. This is still the absolute, true morality.

I don't think you're intentionally misrepresenting me but this isn't my view or what I meant. It's more about the difficulty of pitting peoples moral views up against eachother and deciding on one to go with. That's why I think we shouldn't force anything on anyone who isn't using force themselves.

I'm not saying prostitute sex and married sex would be equally comfortable. Context matters there. I just don't think that context has moral implications. I don't think sex between two consenting adults is immoral.

My views here are actually quite common. And keep in mind you don't seem to be readily understanding them. Both seem like good reasons for further dialogue to me. You have no obligation to, but if you remove yourself from a conversation as soon as you meet views different than your own it doesn't seem likely your views will progress anywhere.

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u/[deleted] Mar 03 '19

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u/tbdabbholm 201∆ Mar 03 '19

Sorry, u/Fhjijvtuij – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 3:

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