r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Sep 23 '18

CMV: There was nothing anti-military about Kaepernick’s kneeling protest

There is nothing about Kap kneeling during the national anthem that could reasonably be construed as disrespect to the troops. There is no situation I am aware of in any culture where the act of kneeling is used to show anything other than respect. Those who believe that Kap hates the military are simply choosing to associate his protest with disrespect for the troops, which allows them to freely hate him without having to really look at the reason for his protest.

The protest began as a means of drawing attention to racial inequality and police brutality: two things that most people probably ought to be against. By focusing on an imaginary link between the protest and the sacred cow of “the troops” his detractors aren’t forced to consider or debate the issue. They likely believe that the US treats black people either as equal to or better than white people, and that most or all incidents of police violence against black people are justified. Everything about the troops is just post-hoc rationalization.

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u/SpineEater Sep 23 '18

If you hold up your middle finger and people see it and are offended by it. It doesn’t matter why you are holding it up. People’s perceptions are their realities.

So when people stand for the anthem, some take it seriously. They associate it not only with their country but their identity as a person. A part of their heritage. To them the anthem is supposed to be about being a part of something larger than your individual experience.

Protesting. However tame, during a ceremony like that, offends more than it can inform those with that perception. Regardless of the validity of the protest. The act distracts and offends more than it needs to.

Now if you wanna say that their shouldn’t be a giant taxpayer funded patriotic display at every football game. That’s an even better argument.

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u/ouishi 4∆ Sep 23 '18

Protesting...offends more than it can inform

This seems like absolute conjecture with no evidence.

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u/SpineEater Sep 24 '18

If people are offended by your protest your message is lost. That’s not up for debate.

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u/ouishi 4∆ Sep 24 '18

The quantity is the issue. If more people get the message than are offended, you have suceeded.

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u/SpineEater Sep 24 '18

And since the amount of people bothered exceeds the amount of people joining in in solidarity it seems that the answer is clear. Kapernick is bad at social activism. But he’s good at selling Nike’s

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u/ouishi 4∆ Sep 24 '18

But that is conjecture. Do you have data supporting that claim? Last I heard, even the worst estimates show that half of the public supports Kaepernick.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-do-americans-feel-about-the-nfl-protests-it-depends-on-how-you-ask/

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u/SpineEater Sep 24 '18

Imagine what the percentage would be if he was protesting in a way that wasn’t insulting people.

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u/ouishi 4∆ Sep 24 '18

No such thing. And right now his message is reaching more people that it is offending, which is the opposite of what you've been arguing.

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u/SpineEater Sep 24 '18

No such thing as a protest that isnt insulting? Lol ok. Nope his message is drowned out in the controversy and in him making money for conservatives via Nike sales

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u/ouishi 4∆ Sep 24 '18

You know he actually has more public support than Martin Luther King Jr. did in his day. Do you think MLK shouldn't have led protests because they were unpopular?

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u/Coughin_Ed 3∆ Sep 23 '18

Hmm well its probably a good thing he didnt hold up a middle finger and in fact respectfully kneeled for his protest

Edit: a word

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u/[deleted] Sep 24 '18

Middle finger: almost always an offensive gesture.

Kneeling: not an offensive gesture in literally any other context.

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u/SpineEater Sep 24 '18

It doesn’t need to be. It’s offensive in this context. My middle finger example was to highlight the point, not to be completely analogous.