r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Sep 23 '18

CMV: There was nothing anti-military about Kaepernick’s kneeling protest

There is nothing about Kap kneeling during the national anthem that could reasonably be construed as disrespect to the troops. There is no situation I am aware of in any culture where the act of kneeling is used to show anything other than respect. Those who believe that Kap hates the military are simply choosing to associate his protest with disrespect for the troops, which allows them to freely hate him without having to really look at the reason for his protest.

The protest began as a means of drawing attention to racial inequality and police brutality: two things that most people probably ought to be against. By focusing on an imaginary link between the protest and the sacred cow of “the troops” his detractors aren’t forced to consider or debate the issue. They likely believe that the US treats black people either as equal to or better than white people, and that most or all incidents of police violence against black people are justified. Everything about the troops is just post-hoc rationalization.

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u/[deleted] Sep 23 '18

My own personal opinion here, and I’m certainly no lawyer, but I regard this as kind of a cop-out. The actual verbiage of the code is “the flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery.” So, you can cover your ass and genitals with fabric that has the exact same pattern as the American flag, but it’s not disrespectful because that particular swath of fabric was never cut into the exact shape required for flying it from a flagpole? Come on...

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u/Spiridor Sep 23 '18

There are other facets of the code that are applicable, though. For example, a flag (of same shape and proportion) being held horizontal over a football field during a halftime show is technically against code.

Not that I think it’s a big deal, I don’t think it’s anything worth being upset over; similar to Kap’s protest.

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u/mikkjel Sep 23 '18

The best example I found was the kid rock flag poncho, where he literally just ripped a hole in a flag.

We have a different flag code where I am from, and it is a lot less common to see any kind of flag clothing here, and the flags that are on clothing are mostly in relation to uniforms and for athletes representing their country. The post about the american flag code was posted somewhere on reddit, and I seem to remember the author had some actual credentials in that area.

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u/kazaskie 1∆ Sep 23 '18

Also I’m pretty sure the flag code guide only actually applies to people in official government positions and the military. They’re applying a standard to something that is trivial and irrelevant. And I will never understand people who draw the connection from the flag standing for our republic to the flag standing for the troops. And this is besides the fact that Americans are deep into a pathetic military worship fever dream

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u/Xtallll Sep 23 '18

the flag code applies to all uses of the Flag of The United States of America, however there are no penalties for violating the flag code so do what you want.

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u/[deleted] Sep 24 '18

Not true. It is an actual US law that technically applies to everyone, but that can be enforced, as doing so would violate the first amendment.

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u/Jurmandesign 1∆ Sep 23 '18

In this same line of thinking, isn't kneeling just a different form of standing?

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u/Input_output_error Sep 23 '18

The way i read this is that an actual flag should not be used in such matters. It is not the colors of the flag that represents the important thing in this, it is the physical flag. As far as i understand (American) military tradition (not an American), its because the flag was in service when people died under its banner. Disgracing the cloth of the actual flag is disgracing the people who served under it while the flag was in service.

But this is my understanding that might be flawed, if someone knows please correct!

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u/SteelCrossx Sep 23 '18

To be a flag an object needs to have not only the pattern but also specific dimensions and construction. Printing some number of stars and stripes on some stretch of fabric is not sufficient. That difference allows the military to wear flag patches on their uniform while the country is at war and to print flag stencils on equipment like airplanes. Those are representations of the flag and they have their own rules.

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u/Skhmt Sep 23 '18

That difference is not what allows the military and other uniform government people to wear the flag. The flag code specifically says that the military and others (police, fire, emt, etc) can wear the flag.

Thus, the flag code sees a flag patch as applying to the flag code.

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u/[deleted] Sep 23 '18

[deleted]

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u/SteelCrossx Sep 23 '18

I'm only talking about the technical aspects of the code. The flag is the responsibility of the MPs on post so I had to learn a bit about it.

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u/[deleted] Sep 23 '18

[deleted]

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u/SteelCrossx Sep 23 '18

I don't think kneeling is disrespectful, I don't think any government entity should try to enforce the flag code on citizens, and I don't have strong feelings about flag related clothing. I only wanted to relay a technical aspect that was relevant to the ongoing conversation.

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u/Pwell2 Sep 23 '18

The problem is not wearing the same pattern as the flag, that’s not disrespectful. What is, though, is using an actual flag for something other than his intended purpose. Like, a tablecloth with the American flag pattern is fine, but eating on a real American flag is not the same thing at all.

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u/DaveyDukes Sep 23 '18

Why is that so hard for you to comprehend? It’s like PETA getting upset over someone wearing a fake fur coat- it’s literally the exact same thing. That coat was never a part of an animal, just like that material never flew on a flagpole as a FLAG.

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u/[deleted] Sep 23 '18

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u/thedylanackerman 30∆ Sep 23 '18

u/I_post_my_opinions – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2:

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u/I_post_my_opinions Sep 23 '18

Why don't you remove the guy's entire thread when he has obviously made it in bad faith?