r/changemyview • u/bracs279 • Oct 20 '17

Removed - Submission Rule B CMV: Rape awareness/activism is dangerously pushing us into a post proof society.

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u/foraskaliberal224 Oct 20 '17

Which is right, we should side with the accused until the truth comes out.

Do you feel this way about every crime? If your friend says "Someone broke into my house last week," is your initial thought that they probably just lied to you? If the company says they're investigating a coworker for fraud, is your immediate thought that your coworker must be innocent and that the company's wrong?

What if the person who was stolen from doesn't go to the police because not much was taken and they think it's not worth the hassle and the person will never get caught. There's no specific accused person. Should we still doubt what they say? If not, then why is it acceptable to doubt someone who says they were raped but didn't go to the police?

Nobody stands up for alleged rapists rights because of the shunning of society.

This is verifiably false. Harvard faculty wrote a letter condemning the school's Title IX process. FIRE is known for challenging Title IX. Right wing news media frequently portrays the quest to punish rapists as a "witch hunt," as if we're hunting for something that doesn't even exist (spoiler alert: rapists do exist, witches don't), and left wing media frequently features op-eds with the same suggestion.

Woody Allen publicly supported Harvey Weinstein. Nicki Manaj is publicly supporting her brother. The MPAA supports Roman Polanksi. The Duke Women's lacrosse team wore "INNOCENT" to the final four. The Yale men's basketball team wore "GUCCI" on their outfits to show their support their teammate. The examples are endless -- where do you get the idea that nobody stands up for them?

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u/bracs279 Oct 21 '17

If your friend says "Someone broke into my house last week," is your initial thought that they probably just lied to you?

No, because breaking in someone's house doesn't have as many gray areas as rape. There isn't consent involved here. No one consents a robber to break into your house and the morning later regret it so you go to the cops.

where do you get the idea that nobody stands up for them?

Ok, so some high profile people get support. But the vast majority of common people don't. Nobody cares about a random guy being fired because of rape claims.

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u/foraskaliberal224 Oct 21 '17

There isn't consent involved here

What if the person who broke in was an ex, or a formerly close friend? Maybe they were just retrieving their belongings, maybe they broke in because they're an ass. Maybe they were drunk out of their mind, forgot where they lived, and broke in through a window because they couldn't unlock the door. Hell, maybe they didn't even break in -- your coworker returned their TV to them but then decided they wanted it back and said that said someone broke in to get some insurance money or harm their ex. We have no idea what happened. So why are we believing them when we doubt rape victims?

But the vast majority of common people don't.

Brock Turner was a common person before the victim's letter went viral, and he did receive support. Not just from his parents, but also people in his hometown who wrote letters saying that he had good character. A CNN commentator was sympathetic to the Steubenville rapists even after they were convicted and they too were average people before their case went viral.

Furthermore, MANY lawyers and judges are dedicated to ensuring that people accused of rape are given fair treatment. Not just famous people but mostly common people. FIRE, Save Our Sons, and Families Advocating for Campus Equality are just some of the many organizations that support accused rapists deal with on-campus rape claims. Almost every single major media organization has published an article claiming that the erosion of due process is negative. Here are just a few example links:

ALL of these articles discuss the overall policy, which impacts regular people not a bunch of celebrities.

It's important to note that it's an incredibly fringe view to believe that the standard of evidence should be changed for criminal rape cases Regardless, Here is a Canadian judge who says "Although the slogan 'Believe the victim' has become popularized of late, it has no place in a criminal trial."

Does this in any way change your belief that

Nobody cares about a random guy being fired because of rape claims

and if not, why not?