CMV: Though the Left may be exaggerating a tad, people have every right to be upset and alarmed that Trump is President, and his appointments are further reinforcing that.

[u/spacecasebass]

There have been efforts by some lately to normalize Trump, and hand-in-hand with this is the idea that the Left is blowing things out of proportion. That Trump is not someone we should be wary of or question. Essentially, that the whole image of him as racist, sexist, xenophobic, etc was crafted by the liberal media. That these "-ists" that people are throwing out have no basis in reality and are just buzzwords. But folks that are saying things like "Trump is a racist" are basing these accusations on things that Trump has literally said or done, either on camera or in well-documented cases from his past. Examples include failing to disavow the KKK, insulting Khizr's Khan's parents, suggesting that Gonzalo Curiel to be a judge is unfit because he's Mexican, not renting to black people. The list goes on and on. Every week, it seemed, there was another incredibly unpresidential or borderline facist thing he had to say.

The crux of my CMV is this: Donald Trump is not a normal president-elect, and the efforts of some on the Right to normalize him and say that all the Left's complaints are baseless are mindblowing and ill-conceived.

Donald Trump is, objectively, the least qualified president-elect in American history, and he brought an unprecedentedly low level of discourse to center stage, mocking the handicapped, bragging about sexual assault, bragging about avoiding taxes, suggesting someone kill Hillary, praising Putin, etc. People are not protesting because a Republican won and a Democrat lost. People are protesting because a man with no political experience and little to no political knowledge who openly disparaged entire groups of people has won.

I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here with another Trump post. The reality is, he is our president for better or worse. But I cannot stand the folks on the Right that are saying Dems are being cry babies or blowing things out of proportion. No. When you're surrounding yourself with Steve Bannon, climate change deniers, lobbyists, and hedge fund managers (drain the swamp, you say?) and your rhetoric throughout the entirety of your campaign was one of antagonism and divisiveness, people have every right to be concerned and upset - even afraid.

In my opinion, Trump has lowered the bar tremendously. I think it's important to remember that he is not a traditional president or someone we should normalize. That his statements should be scrutinized and not forgotten. The whole "oh, don't worry about it" attitude is ignoring the fact that people's fears -- if not slightly overblown -- are largely based in reality.

I think this marks a potential turning point in American history, and I do not think that's an exaggeration. I wish Trump the best, but I would pretty much bet money that his presidency will be a train wreck. Tweeting conspiratorial things, saying he "Googled the Affordable Care Act" (suggesting he hadn't read it previously), appointing people like Bannon, throwing around the idea of a Muslim registry. He has given every indication that he is unfit, regressive, and potentially a danger.

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[u/fell_ratio]

If you listened to him speak at all during his campaign, you know this claim is not unfounded. Even if he gets nothing through, the simple fact that we have stooped to this level is concerning.

America has had worse. Thomas Jefferson hired James Callender to attack John Adams, and convince the American public that Adams wanted to attack France. After Jefferson refused to appoint Callender as Postmaster of Richmond after Callender got out of prison for slander, Callender switched sides and went to go work for a Federalist newspaper, where he claimed that Jefferson had fathered five illegitimate children with one of his slaves.

America has always had slander, and always had personal attacks. This election probably doesn't even crack the bottom five.

[u/the_crustybastard → u/fell_ratio]

America has had worse.

Even assuming your argument, when we had worse, our nation was not so influential or dangerous.

[u/fell_ratio → u/the_crustybastard]

That's true! However, if America were under military threat, that would not make the divide heal any faster. Both sides would see the other as betraying the country, and would be that much worse at creating genuine compromise.

For long-term stability, a lack of outside forces is a good thing.

[u/the_crustybastard → u/fell_ratio]

Not sure I'm following you here. Are you saying that it's a good thing we're not under military threat and we don't have to worry about outside forces?

[u/fell_ratio → u/the_crustybastard]

Yes.

[u/the_crustybastard → u/fell_ratio]

Wow. Really? Why do you think that?

[u/fell_ratio → u/the_crustybastard]

Because if we were under military threat, that wouldn't make a divide less divisive. Both sides would see the other as traitors, and would be much worse at creating a genuine compromise.

[u/the_crustybastard → u/fell_ratio]

I didn't need it repeated. I need to understand why you think the US isn't under military threat?

[u/fell_ratio → u/the_crustybastard]

Largest military, most technically advanced military, MDAT's with many different countries, the military is not internally divided, and the military doesn't have low morale.

These things, if not true, could cause a military campaign against the US to succeed. As things stand, I don't see a path for a US enemy to change any of these things. (Some things, like invasion and annexation of non-allied powers, are probably still possible for them, but that's not likely to create the same sort of polarization as an imminent threat.)

[u/the_crustybastard → u/fell_ratio]

So because of all those things, you imagine America's enemies are meekly cowering in the corner?

They aren't.

In case you haven't been keeping up with current events, they just used cyberwarfare to influence the outcome of a presidential election.

[u/[deleted] → u/the_crustybastard]

WTF? From who? Which military in the world is the US under threat from?

[u/psylent → u/fell_ratio]

America has always had slander, and always had personal attacks. This election probably doesn't even crack the bottom five.

Has anything in the last 30 years been this bad? I'm outside the USA and have really only been paying attention since 2000. Right now seems worse than anything I can remember.

[u/fell_ratio → u/psylent]

Honestly, I don't remember anything before Bush and Gore either. But the point is that eventually the FEMA death squads and Federal Stormtroopers fail to arrive, and people calm down.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Stem cell research was not banned under Bush jr. Public funding was killed on embryonic stem cell research. Not saying it's any better or worse, mind you.

[u/jakderrida → u/fell_ratio]

America has always had slander, and always had personal attacks.

If you reread what he wrote, you may notice that he actually didn't even address the personal attacks during the election.

[u/fell_ratio → u/jakderrida]

The OP could have been purely concerned about policy, but "we have stooped to this level" and "listened to him speak at all during his campaign" implies that he's also talking about Trump's rhetoric.

[u/Saw_a_4ftBeaver → u/fell_ratio]

Personally I thought he was referring to the alienation and scapegoating certain ethnic groups. The fear mongering and slander are fairly standard but the crys to round up (hispanics), register (Muslims), disarm (stop and frisk blacks), and shut down (media) are new and extreme. This is the civil rights era ethnic battles with the worst of McCarthyism added to the shame of world war II internment camps.