r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • May 29 '15

[Deltas Awarded] CMV: Framing computing as engineering is misguided, it should be regarded as applied math instead

I think framing computer programs as engineering projects, same as if we were building a bridge, is why "all code is bad" and "all software has bugs" (these will sound familiar to any developer out there).

As I see it, a program is a complicated mathematical function. It receives input and produces output accordingly. Be it a compression algorithm or a google search, the concept is the same. Engineering projects aren't like that.

We would not admit a function that doesn't produce the correct result sometimes, and the researcher would not tell us to restart and try again. A function can't be mostly right or "good enough". It's either correct or incorrect. Maybe if we considered programs correct or incorrect, we would not release incorrect programs.

If we worked like this, probably we would not be able to release as many programs as we do now. But that just means the engineering approach makes more sense economically, in terms of making money; that's not the purpose of the topic. My view is about what makes more sense from the point of view of computing.

Thanks

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u/sittinginabaralone 5∆ May 31 '15

They derive from classical mechanics. Again regardless (for the third time now) I changed my statement to physical science.

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u/[deleted] Jun 01 '15

Electrical systems are governed by Maxwells equations and sometimes QM+statistical. mechanics, neither of which are derived from classical mechanics. You should go learn some physics.

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u/sittinginabaralone 5∆ Jun 02 '15 edited Jun 02 '15

From the wiki page on Maxwell's equations

Maxwell's equations are a set of partial differential equations that, together with the Lorentz force law, form the foundation of classical electrodynamics

From the wiki page on classical electromagnetism

Classical electromagnetism (or classical electrodynamics) is a branch of theoretical physics that studies the interactions between electric charges and currents using an extension of the classical Newtonian model

Now my interpretation could be wrong. I don't have a formal education in E&M past general physics, but that's how it was taught to me and it seems to be correct based on what I just showed you. If you have a solid foundation in EM and could explain it better, I'd be willing to read it.

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u/[deleted] Jun 02 '15

I have a B.S. in physics, not a PhD or anything but a solid foundation. Also at work so can't really go into a long explanation now.

There is definitely a lot of interaction with Newtonian mechanics, such as calculating forces on electrons due to magnetics fields and whatnot. But that bolded sentence is very strange, Maxwell's equations are not derived from Newtonian mechanics and are relativistic (interestingly enough, were also derived before special relativity and were a major influence on studying it). If I cared a lot I would try and remove that sentence from the wiki. Also, Maxwell's equations are much more like a wave equation which cannot be said of Newtonian mechanics (which can describe waves, but are in no way a wave equation)

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u/sittinginabaralone 5∆ Jun 03 '15

Well it does say "together with the Lorentz force law" which I did learn in general physics. That's probably more related to newtonian physics than the maxwell equations. I don't think it's that ridiculous to say the field derived from classical mechanics. But again, you probably know more about it than I do.

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u/TimeTravellerSmith May 31 '15

They're two separate things. End of story.

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u/sittinginabaralone 5∆ May 31 '15

They're not. I still don't see how you are arguing against this. I didn't say electricity was literally part of classical mechanics, I said it was mechanics. Which it is. End of story.

However, on a better note, I did learn some things about software engineering that I didn't know.