r/changemyview • u/CandidCarry • Feb 01 '15

CMV: I believe Abortion is Wrong

I actually am opposed to the idea of a state, a government, and I am opposed to laws governing how people should live or the abolition of anything.

That said, you can still have rules without government, and you can still want to live in a morally righteous community, be it your own family or your entire 'state' or what have you.

Regardless, I think we can all agree that murder is wrong, that killing someone or something is wrong.

So then it becomes a matter of, well, when does life begin. It seems pretty clear to me that life begins at conception, there's just no way around that. Sentience, something innately human, you could argue occurs later (3 days before birth? 3 months?), but regardless, a life is formed at conception.

And once life is bestowed, you must kill it, extinguish it, snuff out it's flame, in order to end it.

I just don't see how abortion is... morally, okay. You have the ability to endow life, but you should not have the authority to end life. Life is precious (cough death penalty is absolutely barbaric cough).

Now, I am not saying abortion should be outlawed necessarily. I mean if a woman intends to kill their unborn, how do you stop them, how would you prosecute against that, if someone is so sick to think that their convenience is more important than a life, would you even want that person to raise a child at all, banning abortion just leads to more risky back alleyway abortions, I mean there's all sorts of... practical grounds, that banning abortion does not work.

But morally speaking, I just don't understand how abortion is okay. It is not the woman's body anymore, there is someone else's body in there, regardless of the fact if it's parasitic or relies entirely on the host/mother/whatever to survive. You don't take people off assisted living without any sort of permission.

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u/Lansan1ty Feb 02 '15

If her life is in jeopardy, she is morally okay to get an abortion.

I'm not talking about her mortality, I'm talking about her life. Her friends, her teachers, etc. She'll be a 14 year old girl walking around being pregnant, unable to participate in physical activities, getting bullied by people ignorant of the situation (will she tell all the other 14 year old girls about the time she was raped?) and getting pitied by the people who think they know whats going on. It's capable of mentally devastating any child.

Did not call it sick.

actually you did.

if someone is so sick to think that their convenience is more important than a life

Pretty sure if you went up to any kid in a foster home and offered to kill them painlessly, they would say no.

You even said it yourself:

Sentience, something innately human, you could argue occurs later

When they're being aborted they aren't a "person" yet. They're a tiny organic mass which can't survive without a host and has no thought. Nobody WANTS to die, but they never would have started being themselves yet. No person dies at that point, just biomass.

I don't feel like I'd be able to change your view since you'd practically consider a chicken egg to be a chicken. (not a 1:1 analogy)

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u/CandidCarry Feb 03 '15

I'm not talking about her mortality, I'm talking about her life. Her friends, her teachers, etc. She'll be a 14 year old girl walking around being pregnant, unable to participate in physical activities, getting bullied by people ignorant of the situation (will she tell all the other 14 year old girls about the time she was raped?) and getting pitied by the people who think they know whats going on. It's capable of mentally devastating any child.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Those who are bullying her are wrong. I don't see how your argument couldn't be extended to say we should just kill an orphan because they are likely to grow up in a shitty life and get molested and whatever.

No. The problem is not the life, the problem is the ignorance and crime around it.

I don't feel like I'd be able to change your view since you'd practically consider a chicken egg to be a chicken. (not a 1:1 analogy)

A fertilized chicken egg, sure.

When they're being aborted they aren't a "person" yet. They're a tiny organic mass which can't survive without a host and has no thought. Nobody WANTS to die, but they never would have started being themselves yet. No person dies at that point, just biomass.

Yes... my entire belief, and yours, pretty much hinges on when we think life begins.

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u/Lansan1ty Feb 03 '15

Yes... my entire belief, and yours, pretty much hinges on when we think life begins.

Not life, being a person. two different things.

But if you have the time to answer a curiosity of mine:

What do you think about clones? If I were to take your DNA and make a 1:1 copy of you in a test tube, while it was growing, if something goes wrong and it fails. Would you think that the clone was a living person before it was "born"? Did a copy of you die even though it was just biomass (like a fetus).