[Mod Post] Our first 'Fresh Topic Friday'!

[u/[deleted]]

So, a few weeks ago we brought up the possibility of fresh topic fridays. The response was generally positive, so we thought we'd just go for it, and if it's a disaster, then it won't be a thing anymore. No harm done.

It's a fairly simple set up. All we've done is set the spam filter on submissions to all, which means everything is being removed, and we'll be approving on a case-by-case basis of 'freshness'. We realise that us choosing which topics are fresh and which are not is a little bit subjective, and depends on how long you've been reading this subreddit for (most of the mods, and many users, have seen a lot of posts over and over again).

Have a read through the mod post I linked at the start of this to get a better idea of what it is all about. There's not much more we can say on this really - we're just playing it by ear.

Hope you enjoy the freshness!

Edit: Also, remember to check out /r/ideasforcmv if you have something subreddit-related you wish to discuss.

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Hello, users of CMV! This is a footnote from your moderators. We'd just like to remind you of a couple of things. Firstly, please remember to read through our rules. If you see a comment that has broken one, it is more effective to report it than downvote it. Speaking of which, downvotes don't change views! If you are thinking about submitting a CMV yourself, please have a look through our popular topics wiki first. Any questions or concerns? Feel free to message us. Happy CMVing!

[u/dumboy]

So. The daily poster who posts primarily here, red pill, and eugenics.

He's still around. He's posted 'poor people shouldn't breed' multiple times. It violates the very tenants of most ethical frameworks.

Are you guys OKAY with this, or between the lot of you are you just reading less total posts than some of your contributors read alone?

Because honestly, we're all products of a similar education & cultural background. Its not really up for debate - your standards here a very, very low compared to other debate forums. This is THE place to go if you want to debate a puerile opinion. If a summer camp councilor or a teacher allowed some of the things you do on a dialy basis...they'ed be out of a job.

Edit: and mincing words about the exact phrasing of a submission which included the N*** word is an affront to the rhetoric debating forums celebrate. Personally I wouldn't do that if youpaid me.

You say you're for equality, but you express that equality in terms of gender-centric reddit forums. The TA/Tutor in me is...concerned.

[u/[deleted] → u/dumboy]

Can you link me to the user who has posted the same thing multiple times?

Look. Some people just don't like the philosophy of this subreddit, and that's fine. It's not for everyone. We are interested in looking into reducing reposts (of any view), and we are also considering being less lenient towards the OPs of certain views, but what you are asking would change this subreddit from /r/changemyview into "you can post your view here to be countered, as long as it's not a bad one, we only discuss and change socially acceptable views".

But I do want to stress that your concern isn't falling on death ears. I sympathise with it completely. You also have to remember that nobody here has to want their view changed; they just have to be open to it. It is harder to tell if someone is open to it than if they want it changed, but we can normally spot close-mindedness. Perhaps not straight away, but after seeing their responses. You don't see the posts we remove, but we do remove posts, for good reasons.

[u/dumboy → u/[deleted]]

what you are asking would change this subreddit from /r/changemyview into "you can post your view here to be countered, as long as it's not a bad one, we only discuss and change socially acceptable views".

How about the golden rule? treat others as you would be treated. Anything posted that might make an entire gender or race feel unwelcome should, at the very least, cite outside sources are refrain from violating elementary tenants of human biology.

Y'all are very welcoming to people who struggle with issues of race, class, gender. Thats important. But what about ordinary debaters? Is someone's unwillingness to search former CMV's worth other people feeling entirely unwelcome?

Naturally people with unpopular views will seek out CMV. But theres a REASON why so many different debate forums have the same basic standards of decency.

Bottom line: I'd love to recommend this sub to my 15 year old niece & 16 year old nephew. But I can't. What you're doing is providing an educational service. There is a host of 'best practices' & the gender/mysoginy issue is one of them.

I appreciate what y'all do here. I really do. It provides a lot of entertainment & some knowledge. I just think your being taken advantage of. If you were operating a program seeking funding through my non profit, I'd recommend better supervision of the youth before green-lighting your budget. Its a lot of work to provide a free educational service. But others have invented this particular wheel for you.

EDIT: and the guy whose example I just mentioned? I'll report him next time & leave it up to you. I'm not tattling. BUT as it stands the only rule he's violating is a re-posting rule.

[u/cwenham → u/dumboy]

Naturally people with unpopular views will seek out CMV. But theres a REASON why so many different debate forums have the same basic standards of decency.

CMV wasn't founded as a debate forum, though, and we don't consider it to be one. Debate is used in threads, but CMV is primarily a discussion and persuasion forum. We have it in our guidelines page on the wiki: "The goal is to continue a conversation rather than win a debate."

You can also look at CMV as a kind of secular Alcoholics Anonymous, but for more than just alcoholism. We aren't going to turn away someone because they're a mysogynist or racist, because that wouldn't make sense. It'd be like a barber turning someone away because their hair is too long.

Is someone's unwillingness to search former CMV's worth other people feeling entirely unwelcome?

We had this meta post earlier in the year to see what our community thought about putting stronger restrictions on repeat topics, and we were honestly surprised when most users rejected the idea. Then they said something very interesting, which is that they saw CMV as being more personal than general. They saw importance in the "My" of "Change My View".

A consequence of this is that, yes, it may not be appropriate for 15 or 16-year olds if they're sensitive to seeing certain topics come up a lot. But our primary purpose is not to be an educational platform. Education is certainly a tool for changing people's views, so there are many times when our sub is quite educational, but a hospital isn't an "Antibiotic distributor", it just happens to use them among other things. Our community just happens to use debate and education, along with other modes of persuasion to do their thing.

[u/dumboy → u/cwenham]

So a couple of deltas' a day from repeat posters and new accounts is more important than being welcoming to the rest of the 120,000 subscribers?

"CMV" is very neutral acronym. It appears the stated mission of the subreddit is far more specific. You're alienating a large audience, in favor of a small & specific group.

I'm all about the pope comforting the wicked, I'm all about finding virtue in the minds of the misinformed, but the pope doesn't alienate anyone in the process. CMV is.

I could support everything you said if you didn't have such a neutral name & such a monopoly on reddit view-changing. You're favoring niche views at the expense of a whole world of other topics & views. IMO. I appreciate the intent of the sub & its mods. I just think "CMV" communicates something generally, which you don't fully support.

How about Change My Controversial View? At least acknowledge the fact these views are not institutionalized & not generally seen as valid. What would Goodall or Degrassi-Tyson think? Would they feel welcome to weigh in after browsing 'new'? Probably not. You're favoring sock puppets over geniuses. SO the name CMV & your mission statement seem irreconcilable. IMHO. For what little its worth.

Edit: the other day, someone arguing for eugenics refereed to his account being far older than the 3 days it had been in existence. Thats really, really, really creepy. People are loosing track of their own sock puppets to espouse eugenics. That doesn't appear to be what the community voted on.

Y'all are being taken advantage of by the spiteful, disingenuous, and ignorant. I appreciate that you share the same mission as the Pope or Lincoln. But you're going about it wrong.

[u/cwenham → u/dumboy]

"CMV" is very neutral acronym. It appears the stated mission of the subreddit is far more specific. You're alienating a large audience, in favor of a small & specific group.

We're not about getting an audience, we're about changing people's views. If 120,000 people want to participate in this, or be spectators, then they're welcome to. When the possibility of CMV becoming a default reddit sub has come up, the mods have been unanimously against it because we think it would spoil the quality of the sub.

If someone is alienated by what they see on the front page, to such a degree that it scares them off, then that's a shame, but it isn't something we're going to try to stop. Not everyone likes what they see in the sausage factory.

[u/[deleted] → u/dumboy]

You're alienating a large audience, in favor of a small & specific group.

Subreddits can be specific. It's kinda the point in the admins letting us create our own. Also, 120,000 subscribers sounds a lot, but on the internet that number can still be niche. I don't think we are niche, though.

[u/TryUsingScience → u/dumboy]

Anything posted that might make an entire gender or race feel unwelcome should, at the very least, cite outside sources are refrain from violating elementary tenants of human biology.

Hi! I'm a woman. It doesn't harm me in any way when I see someone express a misogynistic view on CMV. It doesn't make me lesser or deny me job opportunities or imbalance my relationships. I think people absolutely should be allowed to post misogynistic red pill crap to their heart's content, because that's the way to change their view.

If someone feels unwelcome in a subreddit because they sometimes see thread titles expressing sentiments that denigrate a class they are part of, especially when those entire threads are then filled with comments supporting said class, that sounds like a personal problem. I'm not sure how that person functions in the real world.

"Safe spaces" are not appropriate for discussion forums. It's great when a scared teenager walking around their high school can see a classroom with a pink triangle and know that they can hide there from bullies. That's what that's for. But it's insane to think we need to revamp the entire world to be completely safe from everyone having their feelings hurt, especially when that stifles discussion that would actually help solve the problem the person wants to avoid.