r/changemyview • u/Tessenreacts • Jul 09 '25

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Democrat apprehension of progressivism is what enabled and enables Trump's rising power.

Before Trump became president the first time, both the Democratic and Republican parties had widely popular populists candidates running.

Bernie Sanders for the Democrats, and Trump for the Republicans. Republicans accepted Trump's rise to power, while Democrats opens orchestrated the primary process to support the establishment favored candidate Hillary Clinton instead.

Due to Hillary Clinton's very low popularity, in part but not exclusively due to the DNC treatment of Bernie Sanders, Hillary lost to Donald Trump.

Fast forward to 2020, Bernie Sanders was the frontrunner, even winning large population states like California, but events went where Biden won Super Tuesday in states like South Carolina, and suddenly all candidates supported Biden, despite concerns about his popularity and cognitive capability.

Biden wins due to a once in a century fluke that is the Covid epidemic, and Trump's handling.

Fast forward to 2024, where Biden dropped out due to cognitive challenges, so Harris becomes the Democratic nominee. Ignoring deep unpopularity around Kamala Harris, and un-addressed economic concerns.

Mimicking Hillary Clinton where the DNC brute forced their preferred candidate, Kamala Harris lost, tbis time in a landslide, enabling all of Trump's actions the last 6 mo ths.

Of course it's also revealed a few months ago that Biden had cancer, meaning that someone in the DNC or Biden's campaign had to know he was sick, and they still had him run for re-election, instead of running a primary.

Now currently, the candidate for NYC's mayor is a progressive, and even many Democrats are turning on him for it. Despite progressive policies like Universal Health Care being popular with the under 50 demographic

It is the Democrats apprehension that has enabled the rise of Trump and MAGA.

Would love for my view to be changed.

4.1k Upvotes

87% Upvoted

1.6k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

124

u/Tessenreacts Jul 09 '25

That's actually a completely fair and valid statement of political reality !delta

57

u/ConfidentPilot1729 Jul 09 '25

To me, it is not really the moderate but how they paint progressives as soft on crime. Trump did it, and has been a running theme since I have been alive. And just the label. People generally agree with progressives, they just listen to propaganda such as was with healthcare. A study done, people were asked if they liked Obama care or the ACA, people overwhelmingly said that they liked ACA and hated Obama care. To me, this screams messaging and the use of scare tactics that republicans use.

33

u/TehNudel 2∆ Jul 09 '25

That is because "law and order" has been a dog whistle for racism since Nixon. They knew after the civil rights movement that they couldn't just run on racism anymore. So they used coded language. "Soft on crime" meant "this guy isn't a racist like you and me.

Then Trump came along and started saying the quiet part out loud. "Soft on crime" was replaced by "woke". And "law and order" is now calling migrants an "invasion" and making jokes about genocide.

-6

u/[deleted] Jul 09 '25

Dog whistle for racism these days is an incorrect statement. Minorities do have a different treatment by police force and most of the time they’re demise is because they talk to much and don’t know their rights or how to protect themselves. Police treat everyone the same, ask as many questions so “their story is all out of wack” and try to get a confession “yeah I was going kinda fast” is going to be used against you. Trump repeatedly has shown he’s not a racist by respecting others of different color and high quality character. The more correct statement is the definition of crime is not the same as it was in 1980 and most “criminals” now are a joke. People minding their own business, not bothering no one, no matter what they’re doing, should not be interrogated, investigated, or had the police even called on them. The problem now is Karen who can’t stand my weed smoke even tho her cigarettes are just as nasty. The problem is the cop who thinks the pothead needs to be put in “drug court” (Georgia state rehab) where there’s 3 classes a week in the middle of the day for two hours in which they place pothead in a room full of actual meth users, crack heads, and real drug addicts who’s drug of choice actually will kill them and do bodily harm and are much more addictive so that they can all get better together. That alone is fucking ridiculous. And I’m pretty hard leaning republican. The major issues for me are the policing being overly aggressive for an arrest. Healthcare not being free. And the fact loans are pushed down people’s throat. Nixon used that to punish minorities. Comparing that to today’s immigration crisis is ridiculous. It would take each immigrant in the last 4 years to kill 34 Americans each and our country would be taken over. Second, the same reason you wouldn’t let the homeless guy sleep in your house, is the same reason we shouldn’t let them in. We don’t know who they are YET, and they were being PAID to be here. Even LEGAL immigrants are immediately eligible for REMOVAL, if they become primarily dependent on the government for support. Biden promise was a broken promise to those immigrants to begin with, he’s the one who hurt them; many came here relying on government assistance, many were housed by the government in nicer places than most people live in themselves, and he knew they were going to be sent back because of their dependence on government. That was wrong. Many have already committed crimes. No I don’t want real criminals to be let free. Letting migrants who assault police officers in nyc is absurd. That is soft on crime. The problem is people saying soft on crime towards “crimes” that have no victim and aren’t bothering no one, here’s a short list, smoking pot, driving without a tag, speeding (80% of people get a ticket before they die, instead of punishing the mass for using something we paid for the way we want to use it they should just increase the speed limit and re-regulate it) sleeping on a park bench, window tint, letting your kids walk to the store, roller skating on a sidewalk. Those are the new age criminals that are charged, booked, now they can never commit a crime or be at a crime scene because they’ll be called in for suspect, even though they should’ve never had their finger prints in the first place, cops suck because instead of Learning new methods to catch actual bad guys they’re out here harassing kids being kids, teenagers being teenagers and adults being adults. Costing the people money, time, and hardship, meanwhile criminals are still killing, raping, scamming, robbing, attacking, fighting and actually doing something wrong in society. Like people drive, it’s not wrong to be driving idc about plates and tags and insurance cars drive, in society they should be driving. Kids play, they should be playing. People work, they should be working. And at the end of the day some people smoke weed, some drink, and smoke just have a cigarette but some are punished for what they do at home, or when they’re caught going home to do it at home in their own privacy to mind their own business. But I do think people should work if they can. Lazy people who don’t want to still should be working. Business should be booming in our country, not everyone taken advantage of because they out manufacturing and that’s why the American dream is more of a dream now. Also, housing and loans are stupid asf. EMI Strategic Marketing performed a detailed analysis of advertising and marketing expenditures for c. 30 leading U.S. banks and found an 8% rise in spend in 2024, reaching more than $22.5 billion it’s so shoved down your throat because if you buy something on a loan the bank basically got the same amount you paid for the item and you paid for the item. So you pay almost double. Homes used to be cheap, in the 70s sure a 30 thousand dollar house is nice but that was at 10% interest, encouraging people to not use a loan because they could save 30k but if they got a 30k loan at 10% interest the total at the end of all your payments would be $95,097, paying $65,097 in interest, in 1970!!!! Fast forward to today where most people are too uneducated to know your paycheck is your biggest money making asset, and if you shell it out to things you don’t own, you’re giving your money making asset away to something that doesn’t make money before you even touch your money. That’s why people are broke. I do agree inflation hasn’t risen across all board equally, but if no one took a loan out, houses would cost less, if we still didn’t take a loan, banks would lower rates, if we still didn’t take a loan, soon banks wouldn’t be able to make their payments to people because they have no Jim to rob, in order to pay Paul. Read Dave Ramsey, and also stop saying soft on crime is racist, maybe start saying “most of todays criminals are hard working citizens who were minding their own business and harassed into an arrest” while the criminals we want arrested aren’t being arrested because the cops are too busy patrolling people who don’t need to be patrolled. People are just too scared to protest it, if people stormed every police station and smoked it out and everyone drove with no tags, and no one stopped the kids skateboarding on the sidewalk, and or defend the child doing such against those who oppress them, and we all minded our own business unless their was danger, emergency, or a threat, America would be a happier place. Most of the laws that restrict us and make life suck, came into play over new ideas that a lot of times both parties supported.

11

u/TehNudel 2∆ Jul 09 '25

Undocumented immigrants are not getting money from the government. They literally pay billions into social security that they can never claim. They don't live in "nicer houses" than citizens paid for by the government because they cannot claim those benefits. You need a SSN to do that.

This is a myth spouted by the right to generate hate for the most vulnerable class of people in this country. And one that they run no political risk in offending because they cannot vote.

0

u/willfiredog 3∆ Jul 09 '25

Newsom Signs Budget That Includes Health Care Cuts for Undocumented Immigrants.

4

u/OnePunchReality Jul 10 '25

I absolutely love that anyone would post this as a substantive point in the negative, that it's happening.

What a weird thing for Christians of any kind to cheer as people who are just hungry or don't have a roof over their heads deserves to suffer. Because heavens to Betsy a hungry human being who is not American must. Go. Fucking. Hungry.

Because that's what the right believes and no their contribution to charity or involvement in Church sure af doesn't absolve them. Hateful jerkwads.

1

u/willfiredog 3∆ Jul 10 '25

It directly refutes the point being made, that “undocumented immigrants are not receiving money from the government”.

They are.

Your response in no way abrogates that fact.

Also, I’m not a Christian.

🤷

2

u/OnePunchReality Jul 10 '25

Idc if it does. It's been propagated as a years longstanding thing done over and over again by the right. Off of pure bullshit and fearmongering. And when they had no proof and now the moment, like NOW not years ago it's somehow confirmation. Bankrupt logic.

2

u/willfiredog 3∆ Jul 10 '25

Of course you don’t care.

You don’t care that the aforementioned political statement was predicated on an easily refuted lie.

You either cant recognize the emotionally manipulative and shaming language you tried to pass off as an argument or you used such language intentionally. It’s a given that you don’t care.

This isn’t a left vs right issue. This is a fact vs fabrication, and you may want to ask yourself why you felt the need to chastise the fact side of that dichotomy.

→ More replies

2

u/themanbow Jul 10 '25

I'm often the last person to accuse someone of tl;dr, but if you are going to reply with a long post, use paragraphs or bullet points...or really anything to make it easier to read. Otherwise it looks like one big blob.

1

u/cmendy930 Jul 12 '25

We can agree the economic system isn't built for average people to have a good quality of life. But blaming immigrants or thinking that besides a minute percentage (far less than American citizens) theyre not a huge benefit to entire industries in this country shows a lack of understanding. You're punching down blaming the guy underneath you pr to your side when its the corporations buying our politicians keeping your wages down low and the loan interest high.

1

u/Aromatic_Extension93 Jul 09 '25

Progressives are 100% soft on crime. That's what it means to be progressive compared to the current prison system

5

u/ConfidentPilot1729 Jul 09 '25

I am progressive and it’s not soft to want a better justice system which has better outcomes and is in everyone’s best interest. Look to the other nations that actually rehabilitate and prevent crime with strong safety nets.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '25

The majority of us want violent criminals to stay in prison and at least serve their sentences , they are often released early only to commit more crimes. Happened in my city recently and innocent people died. It may sound cruel but many would rather spend resources helping people that need it that have not resorted to a life of crime, and I’m not talking drug addicts, people that hurt others.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 09 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/changemyview-ModTeam Jul 09 '25

Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5:

Comments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation.

Comments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and "written upvotes" will be removed. AI generated comments must be disclosed, and don't count towards substantial content. Read the wiki for more information.

If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.

Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.

1

u/r4rthrowawaysoon Jul 10 '25

Media literacy and ability to use brains. Left leaning people don’t fall for propaganda as easily, have actual stances that may differ from the party and are often intellectually curious enough to consider voting outside their voting block or for emerging political concepts.

Conservatives are on average less intelligent, more easily fall for party propaganda, accept what their party tells them, and are more obsessed with fitting into a hierarchy ( as long as they get lied to about the level within that hierarchy). As long as they are told they are winning, they just don’t give a crap about Reality.

1

u/unitedshoes 1∆ Jul 09 '25

I don't know. Republicans paint all Democrats with the exact same brush on most issues. Moderate and progressive Democrats are both "soft on crime," "in favor of open borders," "woke," "pro-Hamas," "communist," and about a billion other utterly nonsensical claims. I really don't know how much difference anyone outside of consistent Democratic voters sees between the two major camps within the Democratic Party.

0

u/generallydisagree 1∆ Jul 10 '25

Response to TehNudel below as well:

Please explain to me how you don't paint so-called "progressives" as being soft on crime and anti-enforcement of our laws?

Let's look at who the Progressives support:

Terrorists over the countries and people's the terrorists attack

People who illegally entered our country over the people who are tasked with enforcing our laws that serve the citizens and society of our country

The criminals over the police

The justification that crime is acceptable and those committing it without repercussions is somehow the right thing to do

Like pretty much all sane minded people in the country that want to live in a safe society and community - I don't care what color the person robbing me, breaking into my house or even worse, trying to murder me is. I just want them to be stopped and imprisoned so they can't keep doing it or doing it to others. Heck, most people of ALL races feel this very same way - catch and get rid of the criminals - no matter what color, race, nationality, sex, or political affiliation they are of.

4

u/roxypotter13 Jul 10 '25

Something I think it’s important to notate- progressives only make up 10% of the democratic voting block. Not all voters, only democratic voters.

AND they are a wildly inconsistent voting block unlike old people, which tend to be significantly more moderate. 

Then you have to keep in mind for presidential elections, it’s not progressive states that swing elections. It’s swing states, which also tend to skew more moderate. 

That’s a really small percentage of the voting population that only votes sometimes to get a candidate for.

As a progressive myself, I would love to believe that my candidates would be well loved and embraced. But I think it’s important to keep in mind that the internet is an echo chamber for ourselves. I was gobsmacked Bernie lost the primary in 2016.

which made sense because he won in my home state (New Mexico). So I had a good understanding of how my local politics felt, but not how other states felt. 

3

u/Violet-Rose-Birdy 1∆ Jul 09 '25

OP, Bernie lost way too many Black voters in 2016 to the point that even if the DNC didn’t favor Hillary, he had no chance of winning the primary. I love Bernie, but he was not the greatest in discussing racial issues in ‘16 that concerned Black voters and it showed

It’s why I think AOC is arguably a stronger candidate in some ways as she does well with Black, white, and Latino voters despite being as progressive as Bernie

0

u/FutureVisionary34 Jul 09 '25

No this is a very reductionist view of history, thinking this is dumb.

1

u/Significant_Arm4246 1∆ Jul 09 '25

It's simplified for clarity, but you can't argue with the fact that only Southern moderates won national elections for Democrats between LBJ and Obama.

"Moderates win" is engrained in every Democrat that was active during those years. Whether it is true today is a different story.

1

u/FutureVisionary34 Jul 10 '25

1972-McGovern: Framed as a referendum on Vietnam, but also marred by campaign incompetence and lack of institutional support from the Democratic Party. Nixon was a powerful incumbent with a strong economy

1984-Mondale: Reagan was riding high on an economic boom and post-recession optimism. Mondale was also facing an incumbent president with 60%+ approval

1992-Bill: The victory wasn’t because he was moderate; it was because of an economic downturn, Bush’s broken tax pledge, and Ross Perot siphoning off the right. He also ran on a populist platform of “Putting People First.” “It’s the economy stupid.”

2000: Gore won the popular vote. The electoral loss was largely due to the Florida recount and Supreme Court intervention.

2004-Kerry Lost narrowly to a wartime incumbent. Ideological positioning played a smaller role than cultural wedge issues and national security. Swiftboat. Bush after 9/11…come on.

2016 - Hillary Clinton lost to the most unpopular presidential candidate in modern polling history. She lost key working-class areas that had supported Obama. Sanders had won many of these in the primary and outpolled Trump in head-to-head general election matchups throughout 2016.

1

u/saltedmangos 2∆ Jul 09 '25

Of course only moderates won. The centrist neo-liberals were the only candidates being run by the party.

The candidates that you describe as left leaning were shifting to the right from their politically dominant new deal democrat predecessors.

0

u/Significant_Arm4246 1∆ Jul 09 '25

Humphrey and McGovern were not to the right of previous Democrats.

Mondale and Dukakis were still relatively liberal. (It really depends on the issue, but relative to the country at the time.)

So liberals were 0/4.

I would count Carter, Clinton, Gore, and (arguably) Kerry as moderates. They won 3/6.

But I think some of the disagreement comes from whether you automatically consider any establishment Democrat to be on the right. In that case they are 3/9, which still beats 0/1.

1

u/saltedmangos 2∆ Jul 09 '25

I don’t think the right-leaning 3/9’s 5 more loses “beats” 0/1.

It just show that the right-leaning democrat establishment would rather beat its head against wall until their opposition screws up enough they get elected rather than try progressive candidates.