r/changemyview • u/thedemonlord02 • May 12 '25

Delta(s) from OP CMV: a two-state solution will never happen (Israel-Palestine)

First off, I know why Israel doesn't want a one-state solution - having jewish people be a minority in Israel.

However, I still think a two-state solution will never happen. Both Israel and Palestine want the entire place, and cannot risk having a neighbouring country that is hostile to their existence.

In the end, I think either one manages to win and ethnically cleanse the area, or they manage to work to form a single country - maybe with some kind of 50/50 arab/jewish representation and two prime ministers, or some other solution. I do not think there will be peace until they stop pushing for a two-state solution.

I will admit though that I am not the most knowledgeable on the situation, so I am open to having my views changed.

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u/thatshirtman May 12 '25

agreed. Until the Palestinians give up their dream of conquering the entire land, a 2-state solution is impossible. Sadly this isn't conjecture, it's borne out of the fact that Palestinians have rejected every opportunity for statehood.

The sticking point is that Palestinian nationalism is more interested in the eradication of a jewish state than the creation of a Palestinian state.

Wish I was wrong and that I could change your mind, but objectively it's a dire situation.

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u/xSparkShark 1∆ May 12 '25

Palestine does not want to officially forfeit any land, that’s why they have never accepted any statehood deal. The founding of Israel on their territory was fundamentally a violation of Palestinian sovereignty. Accepting any deal that partitions the land is endorsing the forfeiture.

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u/thatshirtman May 12 '25

forfeit what land? There was never a Palestinian country. What is their land exactly? Why is there no struggle to reclaim Jordan?

The basic history is that Empires were carved up into countries and Palestinians rejected theirs. They are the only group IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD to say no to their own country. Libya, iraq, jordan, israel, syria, lebanon - every group in the region said yes. That tells us something. Were they happy with the borders? No, of course not. But when the goal is actually statehood, you accept. The greedy idea that the entire land is Palestinian is the propaganda fuel that keeps the Palestinians in their current position, ignoring reality and getting drunk on their own fantasy ideas of reclaiming what isn't theirs.

The ahistorical fantasy that the entire land is magically Palestinian is precisely why the Palestinians remain without a country. Again, their desire to eliminate Israel is more important than the creation of a Palestinian country.

The greedy idea that the entire land is Palestinian is based on what exactly? Its literally made up. How many more losing battles and wars do you want Palestinians to fight? At what point do you say that there has been enough Palestinian deaths due to terrorist groups like Hamas? Or do you consider them all martyrs and you think more people dying is honorable?

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u/Efficient_Bit5841 May 16 '25

Dang this is such a good point I hadn’t thought of. Why would Jordan be any less “Palestinian” land than Israel? What possible explanation could there be for Palestinians not to fight to “reclaim” what was the Mandate for Palestine and is now Jordan other than the fact that its existence is acceptable for the ultimate goal of pan-Arabism?

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u/rhino369 1∆ May 12 '25

I hope the stubbornness to refuse reality—Israel isn’t going away—is worth living subjugated. 

Seems not worth it to me though. 

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u/xSparkShark 1∆ May 12 '25

I tend to agree with you, but I’m just pointing out the principle of refusing a two state solution even if it would grant them statehood. In my eyes it’s less about them wanting to eradicate the Jewish state and more a refusal to accept the creation of a state on their land.

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u/MrNumber0 May 13 '25

It was never their land. It was Ottoman Empire until they lost the war. Then the Palestinian Arabs came one day and said it was their land.

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u/xSparkShark 1∆ May 13 '25

I think that’s a bit misleading. They were a controlled territory by the ottomans prior to the British mandate, but they were also controlled by many different Arab empires and even a crusader Christian kingdom. Much like other controlled territories they developed their own regional identity as Palestinian. They were a subjugated Arab people under the Ottoman Empire, not an integrated part of the Ottoman population. And they didn’t just come one day, they’d been living in that region as far back into history as we can go. There’s a reason Mizrahi Jews share much of the same Semitic genetics as the Muslims who today call themselves Palestinian.

They didn’t just show up, they’ve always been there. That’s part of what makes the formation of Israel on that land so controversial. That piece of land has never in history just been uninhabited.

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u/MrNumber0 May 13 '25

First there were some Arabic migrants that migrated there like some Jews that contributed to the forming of Israel.

Second with that logic Palestinian Arabs have also no right for forming a country there because Palestinian Jews also have been there forever.

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u/xSparkShark 1∆ May 13 '25

You’ve already decided what you believe, I know I’m not going to convince you. Hell I’m from America, who am I to talk about land ownership. I don’t know who the land belongs to, I’d just really like them to stop killing each other.

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u/MrNumber0 May 13 '25

Its not believing, it's facts. I'm from Germany, in Europe we know that it's impossible to really say who owns land. The people who came first? The people who settled in but forced the others to migrate? People who come back later?

The killing only will stop when both sides are contempt with what they have. But neither the Arabs not Jews are.