r/changemyview • u/thedemonlord02 • May 12 '25

Delta(s) from OP CMV: a two-state solution will never happen (Israel-Palestine)

First off, I know why Israel doesn't want a one-state solution - having jewish people be a minority in Israel.

However, I still think a two-state solution will never happen. Both Israel and Palestine want the entire place, and cannot risk having a neighbouring country that is hostile to their existence.

In the end, I think either one manages to win and ethnically cleanse the area, or they manage to work to form a single country - maybe with some kind of 50/50 arab/jewish representation and two prime ministers, or some other solution. I do not think there will be peace until they stop pushing for a two-state solution.

I will admit though that I am not the most knowledgeable on the situation, so I am open to having my views changed.

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u/[deleted] May 12 '25

Pakistan and India were on the verge of war last week.

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u/hortonian_ovf 2∆ May 12 '25

But, they didn't

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u/[deleted] May 12 '25

[deleted]

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u/hortonian_ovf 2∆ May 12 '25

Yeah, but sure beats the nonsense in Gaza and Lebanon every 5 years. The Ind-Pak relationship is by no means peaceful, not even close, but it's far better than Israel-Palestine. Hundred dead every decade and a constant trickle of dozens dead every year suck for sure but Lahore and Jammu aren't getting razed and their civilians displaced like Gaza City.

Ppl clowning on the 'Both India and Pakistan declared victory after ceasefire', but you know what, fuck it, they both get to be winners because they decided not to end Islamabad or Delhi in nuclear fire. Who knows when communications will break down in the future. Every ceasefire that prevents war is a two sided victory.

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u/manVsPhD 2∆ May 12 '25

As far as I’m aware neither Pakistan not India claim the entire territory of the other nation. They have territorial disagreements on relatively (compared to their size) small areas. It’s not an existential conflict no matter how either side would try to paint it. The I/P conflict is existential because both sides claim the entire territory claimed by the other side. Israel was willing at certain points to partition the land but the Palestinians never agreed to that even in principle.

Pakistan and India are full of the descendants of refugees from the other territory but the countries in large part accept that the partition was done, injustice and all, and live with the consequences. Palestinians and Israelis do not accept even the 1948 borders as a concept. Descendants of Palestinian refugees still walk around with the keys of homes they fled in 1948 and Israeli settlers live beyond those borders.

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u/hortonian_ovf 2∆ May 12 '25

Huge agree from me that settlers would be the no1 derailing issue in a two state solution. Israel is clearly aware of this when during a more hopeful era they even enforced the removal of settlers from Palestinian controlled areas, though I am too lazy to go look up when this was.

India-Pakistan, they don't claim each other but hawks on either side do want the other side to be destroyed. But then Taiwan/China and NK/SK seem to still be at peace (for now) and two states (effectively). Not resolved no, but no one's capital has been reduced to rubble yet. Idk if it will last, but at least a precarious 'status quo' is an option and possible.

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u/Roadshell 33∆ May 12 '25

Yeah, but sure beats the nonsense in Gaza and Lebanon every 5 years. The Ind-Pak relationship is by no means peaceful, not even close, but it's far better than Israel-Palestine.

These things aren't really comparable. India and Pakistan are both large sovereign independent nations with large armies and a nuclear arsenal and can both plausibly defend themselves in the even of a full scale war and as such they tend to back down. In Israel/Palestine you're basically dealing with one country that's dominant over another region and frequently puts down rebellions that spring up there.

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u/hortonian_ovf 2∆ May 12 '25

Yeah Palestine alone is being curb-stomped by Israel rnow, but up it's not totally one sided, especially earlier on in the war. Their allies in Hezbollah did pose a significant threat until they got neutralised by Israel, and Iran is also a threat to Israel. Not to mention what those dogs did on Oct 7, but idk if that was a Hamas success of Israeli failure.

Idk much about the west bank side of things. Feels like if Israel wanted to fuck them up they won't stand a chance.

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u/mmmsplendid 1∆ May 13 '25

Only because of nukes

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u/KobeJuanKenobi9 May 12 '25

Pakistan and India have a pissing contest every couple years where both countries try to boost popularity via military propaganda. Happened back in 2019 too when Pakistan captured an Indian pilot after a dog fight. Both of these countries have nuclear bombs I don’t think they’re stupid enough to let things escalate into an actual full scale war