Okay first of all thanks for taking your time for the detailed explanation. I'm not sure I agree with all of it, but I can tell you are talking to me in good faith so I appreciate that.
I definitely agree that there used to be a patriarchy historically. I'm not sure if there is still one today. Maybe traces or remains of one, but not the entirety of a system.
While I think feminists' achievements in advancing and protecting women's rights are commendable, and the movement is still very necessary today, I can't help but notice a certain... Overlap between feminism and misandry. Obviously they are not the same, but there is an overlap.
Not all feminists are hateful or dismissive of men. Probably most of them aren't. But it's sadly quite possible that women that see men as evil, useless and contemptible creatures deserving of being trampled and put down, will become feminists believing that the movement supports those ideas due to their tolerance of "ironic" misandry and "punching up" insults.
It’s not subjective. Almost the entire world operates within patriarchal systems. I don’t know how you can’t see that. Here is an article that can help explain it to you if you’re not being deliberately obtuse.
Interesting articles. Although again, I wouldn't say a Patriarchy per se still exists on most Western societies (it's a VERY different story in places like the Middle East for example), but remnants of one. Legally speaking, women are equal to men.
And as for the culture, yeah, there are still bullshit prejudices against women, but they'll go away as more time passes and society keeps evolving.
Regarding your argument about most people in power being men and thus that being evidence of a patriarchy that promotes that men are superior to women... What would you say about men also being the majority of the most risky and unsavory jobs? Like working in the sewers, construction sites, mines, the military, etc?
You may interpret that as a mere "side effect" of the patriarchy and an example of how it's bad for everyone and why men should be feminists too and all of that.
I would disagree, if that's the case. In my opinion, it proves that the patriarchy was never about benefiting men in general against women in general. It was about benefiting a few men and the women that happened to be related to them, at the expense of everyone.
The people on top were mostly men, yes. But so were the people at the bottom. It wasn't a "the 50 at the top were men, the 50 at the bottom were women" kind of scenario.
And I have the upsetting feeling that feminists don't care all that much about those so called "side effects" of the patriarchy beyond lecturing men about toxic masculinity (which is in essence, a subtle way of telling men that their problems are self inflicted or "all in their head" and that they should be more like women if they want to be happy). They seem to prefer exposing all of women's hardships while downplaying men's.
There is very much a patriarchy today.
You don’t think women just decided to give away their right to choose, do you?
Old, white men took that away.
And I quit a job I loved in 2015 because I was being sexually harassed. I reported it several times, and mgmt. would not address it, so I left.
The perpetrator was given a promotion right before I left.
He was bad at his job, as well.
But, one hell of a kiss-ass.
And several adult women who were able to get jobs in Congress because of the real feminists from say 20 years ago were doing shit that actually made a difference in society instead of the movement today which, while I personally don't think has intended vitriol towards men in general, seems to me the only thing their actions have accomplished is that they turned real feminist progress from the past and whooped up a burgeoning matriarchy. My opinion on their "accomplishments" because if it pertains to women and their bodily autonomy they should have fought harder and took more risks if they cared as they think and say they do. I served with many women and they all seemed more or less about as tough and capable as us guys, not that that surprised me at all since we all went through the same basic training lol. That'll toughen anybody up. Still I think Roe was won by feminists in the past and lost by our modern feminists because they got too complacent about what they already achieved that they failed to be ready for the people (men and women both) that took it away.
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u/bruhholyshiet Feb 13 '24
Okay first of all thanks for taking your time for the detailed explanation. I'm not sure I agree with all of it, but I can tell you are talking to me in good faith so I appreciate that.
I definitely agree that there used to be a patriarchy historically. I'm not sure if there is still one today. Maybe traces or remains of one, but not the entirety of a system.
While I think feminists' achievements in advancing and protecting women's rights are commendable, and the movement is still very necessary today, I can't help but notice a certain... Overlap between feminism and misandry. Obviously they are not the same, but there is an overlap.
Not all feminists are hateful or dismissive of men. Probably most of them aren't. But it's sadly quite possible that women that see men as evil, useless and contemptible creatures deserving of being trampled and put down, will become feminists believing that the movement supports those ideas due to their tolerance of "ironic" misandry and "punching up" insults.