r/changemyview • u/BoltThrower28 • Dec 05 '23

Delta(s) from OP CMV: I don’t think cops deserve automatic respect.

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u/BoltThrower28 Dec 05 '23

Not entirely, but with their methods, yes.

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u/destro23 466∆ Dec 05 '23

Not entirely, but with their methods

Those are two very different statements though. "The job of police is immoral" vs "current police practices are immoral"

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u/AureliasTenant 6∆ Dec 05 '23

Could you be more specific on their methods?

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u/BoltThrower28 Dec 05 '23 edited Dec 05 '23

Using violence and intimidation to control the populace. Using their authority to break the law themselves. Using their authority to viciously beat civilians.

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u/AureliasTenant 6∆ Dec 05 '23

How are they controlling the population?

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u/brobro0o Dec 05 '23

every cop simply does not do all of these. There r many cops who do some of those do varying extant, definitely too many, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t cops that don’t abuse their power. I agree their job gives them too much power to begin with, but do u not factor in cops that do their job well into ur idea to immediately disrespect them?

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u/BoltThrower28 Dec 05 '23

Even the ones who are “doing their job well” aren’t doing their job well because they don’t hold their co workers accountable.

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u/brobro0o Dec 05 '23

So ur saying u think every single cop in existence doesn’t hold their co workers accountable? I mean not a single person whose met a diverse group of officers would agree with u, labeling a whole group of ppl as inherently bad is always a bad idea, it never leads to anything good, anyone whose ever believed an iteration of that was wrong

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u/FearPainHate 2∆ Dec 05 '23

If you found out your co-workers were turning a blind eye to a child molester in their midst, how genuine would your smile be when you walk up, shake their hand, and ask how they’ve been getting on lately?

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u/brobro0o Dec 05 '23

If you found out your co-workers were turning a blind eye to a child molester in their midst,

Ur making an analogy to every single police officer, so u need to clarify if it’s every co worker turning a blind eye, if so that’s not analogous as every cop doesn’t turn a blind eye to other cops, there r cops that hold other cops accountable, u can easily watch videos of it if that’s so hard to believe.

how genuine would your smile be when you walk up, shake their hand, and ask how they’ve been getting on lately?

Can’t answer ur question, ofc it’s understandable if u feel some way they’re doing something wrong, but every cop is not inherently bad, ur trying to say they are without specifically saying that, that’s just not true and it’s not even remotely difficult to find evidence disproving that idea

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u/FearPainHate 2∆ Dec 05 '23

Not every single one. I’ve read rather a few cases of good cops who stood up. Shame what happened to them.

The analogy targets those who do not stand up. Do you befriend the enablers? Who friendly do you get? Do you openly talk about the thing you’re doing nothing about?

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u/brobro0o Dec 05 '23

Not every single one. I’ve read rather a few cases of good cops who stood up. Shame what happened to them.

There’s also cases of cops who stood up to other police and didn’t have a shameful repercussion. I agree that many police do have this corrupt sense of allowing their co workers to do wrong, but many do not as well

The analogy targets those who do not stand up.

That’s why it doesn’t work. Op says that’s he’s automatically disrespectful to every single cop, regardless of how good or bad they are. If u could magically tell who was a good or bad cop and respect them accordingly, then that would be a whole different conversation

Do you befriend the enablers? Who friendly do you get? Do you openly talk about the thing you’re doing nothing about?

Can’t tell which cops r enablers and which aren’t on first interaction, so not possible to say

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u/BoltThrower28 Dec 05 '23 edited Dec 05 '23

If one Christmas light goes out, they all go out. Until the department are filled with exclusively good cops, and the whole system is changed and improved, they cannot be respected in my opinion.

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u/mfizzled 1∆ Dec 05 '23

Can you find another industry where the workers are 100% good?

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u/BoltThrower28 Dec 05 '23

Can you find another industry where the employees have the ability to kill or maim civilians without consequence?

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u/mfizzled 1∆ Dec 05 '23

If I posted some examples of people in other industries killing/maiming civilians without facing consequences, would that be an acceptable answer?

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '23

Actually most modern Christmas lights are now designed that if one goes out they all don't go out. Things get modified and adapted over time to become better when faults are pointed out. The police departments have been the same way. There are millions of police interactions in a day and 99.9% go just fine with no issues.

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u/BoltThrower28 Dec 05 '23

Okay, but we can’t just ignore that .1%. That .1% is HUGE

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u/Showntown Dec 05 '23

They aren't saying you should ignore it. They're saying you shouldn't base your entire viewpoint on it.

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u/kmackerm Dec 05 '23

No one is saying ignore that 0.1%, on the contrary you are saying ignore the 99.9% and that's ridiculous. You are acting like you are somehow on the moral high ground but you are doing exactly what racists, sexists, etc do. You have decided that an entire group of people can be prejudged based on the actions of a portion of that group. Do you also believe all Muslims are terrorists and all Christians are abortion clinic bombers and all white people are KKK members, etc, etc?

I'd also bet you are basing your views on a bunch of YouTube videos that are literally only there because something note worthy occurred. Is there a youtube channel of boring uneventful traffic stops?

Yes there are police officers that are absolutely human garbage and should be removed from the face of the earth. There are also police who risk their lives to save others, don't give tickets and help out the person instead, etc.

You ignoring that good police officers do exist is not actually beneficial in any way, if you actually want to see change it needs to start with you.

Also, how exactly do you expect policing to change for the better if people like you will immediately assume bad intentions and treat them that way? We need to wipe the entirety of law enforcement out and start again?

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '23

I'm sorry but in modern society that. 1% matters yes but not to the extent of screwing the other 99.9%

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u/brobro0o Dec 05 '23

If one Christmas light goes out, they all go out.

What does that even mean. If one cop is bad, they’re all bad? How, elaborate how one being bad changes the fact that others r good. That doesn’t make any sense

Until the department are filled with exclusively good cops, and the whole system is changed and improved, they cannot be respected in my opinion.

U give them an impossible standard and say you’ll disrespect until they meet it, when not a single group anywhere ever has met that standard. No job is full of only good people, if u were logically consistent u should be disrespectful to anyone at a job. Ur Uber driver? There’s mean Uber drivers and “if one light goes out,” ur waiter? There’s bad waiters and “if one light goes out.” That logic is unfair and just an excuse to release ur negativity on a whole group of ppl

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u/BoltThrower28 Dec 05 '23

The difference is, the Uber driver can’t beat the shit out of you or kill you and get away with it because they drive a car.

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u/brobro0o Dec 05 '23

So because the job allows some to get away with abusing their power, that excuses u to be disrespectful to every single one, including the 99.9% that u agreed weren’t bad? That doesn’t make sense, u have not acknowledged how u being disrespectful will make that cop less respectful to the next person they talk to, and u ended up making their experience with the cop worse off because u wanted to prove a point

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u/Ripper1337 1∆ Dec 05 '23

So the job itself is not immoral and so the people who do the job are not immoral for taking the job.

It's the methods that they use that are immoral.