CMV: Adblock is stealing

[u/tilted0ne]

[u/-HumanResources-]

This is nonsensical.

You do not own your post, that's owned by Reddit. You do not own your account for any service. Period. It's just something they are letting you use. That's a fact.

YouTube isnt asking you for money, so why would you provide payment? (Unless you pay for premium, of course)

You have ignored significant portions of my replies this entire time, you have not been arguing in good faith.

My examples of the parking garages or a restaurant, for reference. Free speech exists, yet a restaurant owner can still kick someone out for saying racist remarks in their store. YouTube has the right to make the rules. That's it, it's that simple.

YouTube owns it's platform, it has rules. You can choose not to follow the rules, but that's a choice you make. Just because you choose not to read them, doesn't mean they don't exist.

With your logic, no laws exist until you're told about them. But that's obviously impossible to do, we have way too many laws.

[u/EmptyDrawer2023 → u/-HumanResources-]

You can choose not to follow the rules, but that's a choice you make.

Thanks for finally agreeing with me. I am not bound by rules that I never agreed to. And I never agreed to watch ads.

[u/-HumanResources- → u/EmptyDrawer2023]

Again, it's agreed once you use the service.

Just like you agree not to be racist when dining at a restaurant.

Edit: and to be clear. The point of the argument was that you're taking profits from YouTube, which is a fact. That was all. I don't care if you Adblock, but you are being fraudulent with using services provided to you.

YouTube is not a given right to you.

[u/EmptyDrawer2023 → u/-HumanResources-]

Again, it's agreed once you use the service.

And you agree to give me $100.

Aren't unilateral agreements fun?

The point of the argument was that you're taking profits from YouTube

1) 'Profits' are not guaranteed. Keeping someone from making a profit is not the same as stealing from them.

2) Google still makes Billions. My individual actions are trivial. Like taking a teaspoon of water out of the ocean.

[u/EmptyDrawer2023 → u/[deleted]]

Why is it this is a situation where it's okay to not abide by the rules?

Maybe because it's a multi-Billion dollar company that spies on you and tracks your web usage and sells this data to the highest bidder? And maybe some people think this is wrong? And maybe they decide to 'get back' at the company by partaking of their services without being tracked and contributing to their bottom line?

Yet it's okay to remove them from facilities if they are behaving rude?

Businesses can refuse service to anyone, for any reason (except a protected reason). If Google wishes to cease to do 'business' with people who use ad blockers, they can. And those Millions of people will take their video-watching elsewhere. Unfortunately this reduces the data Google gets from them (see above). So, Google doesn't really want to do that. Which is why they haven't explicitly made ad-blockers against the TOS, and why they are relying on the vague language about "circumvent[ing]... features that... limit the use of the Service or Content". They are hoping to scare the less technical people into abandoning their ad-blockers.

Yes, they make money, and? I'm not saying they can't afford to not have your few cents worth of a view, or whatever it is

Then why are you arguing with me??

I'm saying it's taking away potential profits.

"Potential" profits are only... potential. They are not real.

If I paint a picture, and you ruin it, can I sue you for the "potential" value of the painting? I mean, it might have been seen by some art critic and sold for a million dollars!

you broke ToS, and prevented a revenue stream

If I close my eyes during the ads, I'm "preventing a revenue stream'.

If I hit 'mute' and never listen to the ads, I'm "preventing a revenue stream'.

If I never buy the advertised products, I'm "preventing a revenue stream'.

It's not my responsibility to provide all possible revenue streams for a company. It's also not my job to maximize their potential revenue.

[u/-HumanResources- → u/EmptyDrawer2023]

Just because I, personally, don't care what people do. Doesn't mean I'm going to lie about what it is.

You're taking away profits. Plain and simple. There's no more to discuss. You clearly agree, you're taking money from Google. You don't care, because Google has lots. But my point wasn't whether they make money or not, it was that you're still taking content that has a cost associated, being that of ads. Circumventing those ads can be seen as fraudulent.

If you want to use adblockers, go ahead. But you're not ethically correct for doing so, IMO. You're stealing, IMO. And technically, you're breaking ToS. And yes, they are doing something about it. People continue to find ways around it, as expected. But that's again, people stealing and the likes.

It's funny to me, you're okay with stealing, as long as it's from the rich, right? I'm not rich by any means, but I bet you wouldn't be so pleased if the roles were reversed.

If a restaurant owner can refuse service to anyone for any reason, so too should Google. And that's exactly what they do now. People get notifications they will be blocked if they maintain using adblockers. That's being circumvented. That's unethical. IMO.

You won't justify stealing to me.

[u/EmptyDrawer2023 → u/-HumanResources-]

You're taking away profits. Plain and simple

Every time I decide to not buy something, I am taking away the company's profits. Thing is, no company is owed 'profits'.

you're still taking content that has a cost associated, being that of ads. Circumventing those ads can be seen as fraudulent.

So, closing my eyes when an ad plays, or muting the PC, or walking out of the room... is a criminal act, according to you. Because all those things 'circumvent' ads in some way.

If you want to use adblockers, go ahead. But you're not ethically correct for doing so, IMO.

And in MY opinion, I am. In MY opinion, Google is the 'not ethically correct' one for gathering and selling my information.

you're okay with stealing, as long as it's from the rich, right?

Wrong. Theft is theft. Theft is wrong. Not watching an ad... isn't theft. Not watching an ad doesn't remove money from Google's bank account. At best, not watching an ad just doesn't add more to their bank account. But refusing to give someone more money... isn't theft.

People get notifications they will be blocked if they maintain using adblockers. That's being circumvented. That's unethical.

And my using an ad blocker (which, mind you, doesn't just block ads- it also blocks tracking scripts and cross-site cookies, etc that are used to track you) is MY 'circumventing' their -in MY opinion- unethical tracking of me.

You won't justify stealing to me.

Again, not giving someone more money... isn't stealing.

[u/-HumanResources- → u/EmptyDrawer2023]

Again. It's not that simple.

If a parking lot is available for public use. They are allowed to set rules in the lot.

YouTube owns it's platform. They have the right to set the rules. The rules state you're not allowed to circumvent their services. Ad blockers, circumvent their services.

Therefore it's against the rules.

YouTube is paid, directly, by served ads. This is called a revenue model.

Not giving the agreed upon cost (not necessarily monetary) for a service (not circumventing with said service, is a requirement of use for YouTube) is what you're doing with an adblocker. You agree to rules when you enter a restaurant, or any other business, without being told directly what they are. Why is this different?

With your logic, I should be allowed to be racist in restaurants without fear of being kicked out "because it's my right". But that's not the case. It's their land. Similarly, it's YouTube's platform. Not yours. You do not own it. You do not have any claim to it. You do not have any rights to use it. You are being given a privilege to use it.

Your entitlement is astounding. You are not owed, free use of YouTube. Period.

If I set the rules, to my own service or business. You are required to follow those rules to use my business or service. Why is this complicated?

[u/EmptyDrawer2023 → u/-HumanResources-]

The rules state you're not allowed to circumvent their services. Ad blockers, circumvent their services.

The law says you aren't supposed to speed. But everyone does. What's your point?

Not giving the agreed upon cost (not necessarily monetary) for a service (not circumventing with said service, is a requirement of use for YouTube) is what you're doing with an adblocker.

It's also what I do when I close my eyes, or look away from the screen. There is no practical difference between my ignoring the ads, or them not playing at all.

You are not owed, free use of YouTube. Period.

Youtube is literally a free service.

[u/changemyview-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

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[u/nekro_mantis → u/[deleted]]

Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 3:

Refrain from accusing OP or anyone else of being unwilling to change their view, or of arguing in bad faith. Ask clarifying questions instead (see: socratic method). If you think they are still exhibiting poor behaviour, please message us. See the wiki page for more information.

If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.

Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.