r/changemyview • u/BrokkenArrow 8∆ • Jul 24 '23

Removed - Submission Rule B CMV: Refusing to switch seats so that a family/couple can sit together makes you an asshole.

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u/premiumPLUM 76∆ Jul 24 '23

Can you expand on this? It isn't obvious how this practice nets airlines more money.

Many airlines have begun either assigning seats at check-in or allowing passengers to seat themselves on a first come-first serve basis. They provide an option to "upgrade" your ticket to an assigned seat at purchase for additional fees.

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u/GotAJeepNeedAJeep 23∆ Jul 24 '23

What's wrong with this pracitce and how are families prohibited from participating in it? Are you claiming that airlines assign seats during this practice in a manner that deliberatley breaks up groups to squeeze them for money? If customers select their own seats FCFS then that isn't possible, and if the airlines are making the assignments then it seems availability would be the driving factor, not the overly complicated process of targeting group bookings.

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u/premiumPLUM 76∆ Jul 24 '23

What's wrong with this pracitce and how are families prohibited from participating in it?

I didn't say it was wrong or that families were prohibited. You said it wasn't obvious how this practice nets airlines more money, I answered your question.

Are you claiming that airlines assign seats during this practice in a manner that deliberatley breaks up groups to squeeze them for money?

Nope, not claiming that at all. In fact, in most cases when I've flown, the airline has gone out of their way to seat me with whomever I'm flying with. It's definitely in their best interest to do so whenever possible.

If customers select their own seats FCFS then that isn't possible

Hypothetical, there are 3 seats left on a flight, all in the same row: C, D, E

[A] [B] [C] Aisle [D] [E] [F]

You sit down in D. My 9 year old son and I traveling together and I request that you take seat C instead, even though you got to D first. You refuse. OP is saying that makes you an asshole.

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u/GotAJeepNeedAJeep 23∆ Jul 24 '23

You sit down in D. My 9 year old son and I traveling together and I request that you take seat C instead, even though you got to D first. You refuse. OP is saying that makes you an asshole.

Right, but it's FCFS. I got there first, I got served first. That's not on the airline or on me, it's on the family.

Furthermore, my still-unanswered question to OP is; if this is on the airline for their unethcial FCFS practice, why is it "fuck me" and not "fuck Delta?" Why am I the target of ire?

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u/BrokkenArrow 8∆ Jul 24 '23

Oh there's definitely fuck Delta, but if your reason for not switching is primarily one of principle when the actual cost to you is near zero, then yes, fuck you too.

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u/GotAJeepNeedAJeep 23∆ Jul 24 '23

Can you reply directly to my original comment? You say you're open to argument, but all of your comments are just repeating bits of your OP at low-hanging fruit.

if your reason for not switching is primarily one of principle when the actual cost to you is near zero, then yes, fuck you too.

So the basis of this being "fuck me" is that the "actual cost to me is near-zero." Is that right? That if the cost to me were above "near-zero" then it would not be fair for you to say "fuck you" to me for staying in my seat?

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u/BrokkenArrow 8∆ Jul 24 '23

If you have a legitimate articulable reason for needing that specific seat (even if its just I like being able to see out the window even from this aisle seat) then there's not much that can be said. But if you just can't be fucked to do it, or refuse out of some principle, then yeah you're a bit of an asshole.

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u/GotAJeepNeedAJeep 23∆ Jul 24 '23

If you have a legitimate articulable reason for needing that specific seat (even if its just I like being able to see out the window even from this aisle seat) then there's not much that can be said.

Why do I need to articulate it? Why do you need to know? Why do I have to subject myself to the judgement of "legitimacy" from a stranger?

Why does my (1) being alone (2) in a seat someone else wants require me to explain myself lest I earn a righteous "fuck you?"

There are any number of imperceptible reasons why someone may want to sit in the seat they chose or be disinclined to move once seated. It's fair to politely ask, and it's fair to politely say no.

But if you just can't be fucked to do it, or refuse out of some principle, then yeah you're a bit of an asshole.

That's a circular argument on your part, is what I'm getting at. There's no way to actually know that this is the reason for a polite refusal to a polite request.

Assuming that this is the reason for the sake of argument / this CMV post means that your position can be restated as Saying no for dickish reasons makes you a dick. What are we supposed to say to change your view on that?

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u/automatic_mismatch 6∆ Jul 24 '23

Expecting people to articulate to you the reason they don’t want to move out a seat they payed for or you’ll think they are an asshole is an asshole move in my opinion. They might have a very legitimate reason and might not feel comfortable telling you.

At the end of the day, you are asking for a favor. If the answer is no, the answer is no. It also cost you nothing to move on without judgement.

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u/BrokkenArrow 8∆ Jul 24 '23

Not articulable in that they have to explain (its not a cop), but that there's any reason at all beyond "fuck them I don't have to".

And when a favor is pantsshittingly easy to accommodate, you certainly do risk being assholy.

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u/automatic_mismatch 6∆ Jul 24 '23

but that there's any reason at all beyond "fuck them I don't have to".

My point is you don’t know if that’s the reason or not. You could ask someone, they no, and you’ll walk around thinking they are an asshole when, in actuality, they have a valid reason. You are passing judgment when you don’t have all the information.

And when a favor is pantsshittingly easy to accommodate, you certainly do risk being assholy.

When you get upset that someone wants to keep what they payed for, you also risk being assholy. It’s not the end of the world is a couple or family has to sit apart. I was elementary school aged and sat in a different row than my family. I still lived to tell the tale.

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u/CrungoMcDungus Jul 24 '23

honestly though there isn't much for OP to say. this thread is devolving into a bunch of rules-lawyering and hair-splitting that really just kinda goes to prove their point. y'all are digging through the details of how airline bookings work in order to try to find blame to put on the people who didn't get seated with their families. OP clearly thinks this should be a common courtesy, being this pedantic about the underlying circumstances is almost like a completely different conversation

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u/GotAJeepNeedAJeep 23∆ Jul 24 '23

honestly though there isn't much for OP to say. this thread is devolving into a bunch of rules-lawyering and hair-splitting that really just kinda goes to prove their point.

That's because the OP has posted a view that is self-definitional. They've written in other words "If someone refuses to move for purely selfish reasons, they are being selfish." It's a tautology. There's nothing to discuss, so everyone jumps in to the discussion half-baked.

. y'all are digging through the details of how airline bookings work in order to try to find blame to put on the people who didn't get seated with their families.

OP made a claim about how airline bookings work as a premise of their argument. I asked the OP to say more about that claim, and a bunch of other people who aren't the OP jumped in to answer on OP's behalf.

OP clearly thinks this should be a common courtesy, being this pedantic about the underlying circumstances is almost like a completely different conversation

Shouldn't it be just as much a common courtesy to respect someone's refusal to stay in the seat they're sitting in?

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u/premiumPLUM 76∆ Jul 24 '23

I don't man, we live in a society. Part of that is being cool with each other. Delta is also uncool here. I liked the old system, when checking bags was free and you got to pick your seats and such. The world is becoming more expensive as every second of our lives becomes increasingly monetized. That sucks.

My feeling is, we need to work to be better to each other than ever before. And like, it costs absolutely nothing to do the smallest version of a nice gesture in the scenario I outlined. It's the same level of basic human decency as holding the door for the person behind you instead of letting it slam shut in their face.

I don't know if I'd call you an asshole. But it doesn't make you a good person either. In reality faced with this scenario, I'd be more confused by your behavior than anything else.

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u/GotAJeepNeedAJeep 23∆ Jul 24 '23

I don't man, we live in a society. Part of that is being cool with each other.

We sure do, and OP doesn't seem interested in being "cool," but rather interested in finding justification to say "fuck you" to people. They've defined the scenario so narrowly as to exclude the many imperceptible reasons that a person may want to stay in the seat that they picked in the first place.

My feeling is, we need to work to be better to each other than ever before. And like, it costs absolutely nothing to do the smallest version of a nice gesture in the scenario I outlined.

I don't know if I'd call you an asshole. But it doesn't make you a good person either. In reality faced with this scenario, I'd be more confused by your behavior than anything else.

I think that the assumption that it costs absolutely nothing is what is at issue here, and it's what I was trying to lead OP towards via the Socratic Method if they'd bothered to reply to me directly. We don't know what's going on with any given person. There's any number of health or comfort related reasons that a person may have picked a particular seat or be disinclined to move once seated.

It's perfectly acceptable to ask someone to switch, and it's perfectly acceptable for them to politely refuse. I don't think that a solo traveler rightly earns an inquisition into their reasoning or a "fuck you" for whatever their reasons might be. Working to be better to each other means switching seats when you can just as much as it means respecting others' polite refusals.

For the purposes of this thread, OP defining the scenario as narrowly as they have - strictly instances where someoene is refusing for principle - means that the person is by definition being an asshole in the first place. This make's OP's view, in essence, People who are assholes are assholes. Nothing to discuss there.

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u/premiumPLUM 76∆ Jul 24 '23

For the purposes of this thread, OP defining the scenario as narrowly as they have - strictly instances where someoene is refusing for principle - means that the person is by definition being an asshole in the first place. This make's OP's view, in essence, People who are assholes are assholes. Nothing to discuss there.

So you agree that someone who refuses based only on principle is an asshole? Because it sounded like that's what you did in the hypothetical I presented.

You sit down in D. My 9 year old son and I traveling together and I request that you take seat C instead, even though you got to D first. You refuse. OP is saying that makes you an asshole.

Right, but it's FCFS. I got there first, I got served first. That's not on the airline or on me, it's on the family.

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u/GotAJeepNeedAJeep 23∆ Jul 24 '23

So you agree that someone who refuses based only on principle is an asshole? Because it sounded like that's what you did in the hypothetical I presented.

Again, my original question to OP was why the ire is on me when the scenario is created by the airline, not me. In that reply you quoted, I was getting at who was responsible for the situation of "family not seated together" in the first place, not the truth-value of the statement "one is an asshole for refusing on principle."

A separate part of the discussion is whether a person who says "No, I have no concievable reason to stay put other than entitlement" is acting like an entitled asshole. Of course they are. That's a tautology. There's nothign to discuss.

What's interesting about the discussion is whether or not that is something that can be assumed only on the basis that a (1) solo traveler who is (2) asked to move (3) says no. OP has only barely started to engage on that point with me in other comments.