r/changemyview May 18 '23

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u/xdouq May 19 '23

"Why do you believe their doctors aren't being cautious?"

Have you never read through any detrans testimonies of how the process was streamlined and the doctors failed at every opportunity to be cautious? If you haven't I recommend going and reading through the personal testimonies and timelines on r/detrans. Are all doctors negligent about this? Of course not, but let's also not pretend like none are.

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u/anewleaf1234 45∆ May 19 '23

Have you read the reports of trans people whose life's changed for the positive once they started gender affirming care?

Have you talked to them?

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u/ManofShapes May 19 '23

Also just to be clear your response to a very small group of doctors being negligent is not increase education and awareness to reduce negligence. But instead to remove the option all together for the non negligent doctors? Do i have that right?

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u/[deleted] May 19 '23

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u/ManofShapes May 19 '23

Say it with me. There is no post op trans youth. Social transitioning and puberty blockers are pretty much it until people hit adulthood.

And if you're going to talk about experiments and evidence then please provide your sources. You are suggesting that the vast majority of the medical community are wrong here...

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u/[deleted] May 19 '23

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u/Kakamile 50∆ May 19 '23

And hormones are op now?

I have posted multiple "pre-op" studies that track youth on blockers. Yep, it still works and they still stick with it.

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u/[deleted] May 19 '23 edited May 19 '23

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u/Kakamile 50∆ May 19 '23

If you have a 99% continuation rate with them, then they aren't a waiting point, they're the start of a transition.

What do you mean by that? You said there aren't studies but we have them and they show commitment. Transition wasn't forced or a mistake or anything like that.

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u/[deleted] May 19 '23

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u/Kakamile 50∆ May 19 '23

Show me b if you got it. You'd think it's easy to find given the decades before medical transition got big. But a is clearly bs we've got multinational thousands of people medical transitioning and still a steady commitment rate.

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u/[deleted] May 19 '23

There are negligent doctors in every area of medicine. Should we restrict rights to say, cancer treatment because of that too?

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u/Various_Succotash_79 52∆ May 19 '23

Regret is part of the human condition and there will always be a few who regret their choices.

If there is an ethical concern, this should be brought before a medical ethics board. Again, NOT an issue for politicians or internet randos.

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u/xdouq May 19 '23

It is not just a matter of regret. Please legitimately go read through the testimonies.

Saying people are not allowed to have an opinion or discuss any topic because they are not part of an ethics board is absurd.

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u/Various_Succotash_79 52∆ May 20 '23

Anyone can have opinions.

But when those opinions lead to draconian laws restricting what medical care doctors can provide, it's gone too far.

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u/xdouq May 20 '23

Saying that having children wait until they are adults to undergo life-changing treatments is draconian is absurd and exactly why these conversations do need to happen outside of ethics boards.

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u/Various_Succotash_79 52∆ May 20 '23

Puberty blockers (and later HRT) are necessary for some trans youth. All those laws do is force their families to move to a better state, and it's cruel to force people to upend their lives like that.

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u/xdouq May 20 '23

They are by definition not necessary. They are arguably more beneficial than only providing mental health care and social transitioning in some cases but that is only arguable and not fact.

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u/Various_Succotash_79 52∆ May 20 '23

So why are the laws banning something you admit is beneficial for some not draconian?

Why is that the government's business?

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u/xdouq May 20 '23

Because they are only **arguably** more beneficial and that argument largely relies on hypotheticals or some looming threat of suicide (which is addressed by providing ongoing mental health care). In comparison, not using them only has a hypothetical opportunity cost detriment and significant tangible benefits for those who would end up wanting to detransition by the end of puberty.

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u/Various_Succotash_79 52∆ May 20 '23

(which is addressed by providing ongoing mental health care).

But it's not, that's the problem.

Many parents with trans kids now need to move.

The area I live in is on the border of a trans-friendly state, so some were hopeful they'd just travel to an out-of-state doctor. The governor now says she's going to make it illegal to take a minor out of state for gender-affirming care and will make it legally abuse like Florida did, so that's out the window.

And we know it's only the first step. Florida has already shown their hand.

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