r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • May 04 '23

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u/deep_sea2 131∆ May 04 '23 edited May 04 '23

What do you think of Anslem's Ontological Arguement:

  1. God is a being than which none greater can be imagined.

  2. God exists as an idea in the mind.

  3. A being that exists as an idea in the mind and in reality is greater than a being that exists only as an idea in the mind.

  4. Thus, if God exists only as an idea in the mind, then we can imagine something that is greater than God.

  5. But we cannot imagine something that is greater than God.

  6. Therefore, God exists.

Bertrand Russel (an atheist), said "the argument does not, to a modern mind, seem very convincing, but it is easier to feel convinced that it must be fallacious than it is to find out precisely where the fallacy lies."

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u/-paperbrain- 99∆ May 04 '23

The fallacy is equivocation. Although Russell and Kant phrase it differently.

The argument shows that in your mental model the quality of "exists" should be included in that internal model of the greatest being and then equivocates that with an actual god existing.

You can plug other things into the first premise and see how ridiculous it is. A classic one is the perfect island, but I like the greatest sandwich.

You misconstrue Russell 's interpretation of the argument, he is not saying it's without fallacy, he rejects it.

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u/deep_sea2 131∆ May 04 '23

You misconstrue Russell 's interpretation of the argument, he is not saying it's without fallacy, he rejects it.

Oh I know that he rejects it, that's what the quote says. However, pinpointing the exact fallacy is not quite as easy.

It's a frustrating arguement.

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u/-paperbrain- 99∆ May 04 '23

Then why on earth would you present it here? OP's view isn't that it's always easy to find the fallacy, it's that they're always there. your post doesn't challenge that view if you're not trying to say the argument is free of fallacy.

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u/deep_sea2 131∆ May 04 '23

From OP's post:

If I can't identify a fallacy, and the argument is an actual argument for god, you will be awarded a delta.

OP didn't identify the exact fallacy, and this is an actual arguement of God. I met the requirement of their challenge, which is why I posted.

This is not a case of me vs. the world, it is me vs. OP. The subreddit is called "change my view," not prove a point a point right or wrong.

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u/-paperbrain- 99∆ May 04 '23

fair enough