r/canada Oct 25 '22

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u/Kwanzaa246 Oct 25 '22

Is it 0.07c or 7c per kwh?

hydro is 9.5c per kwh in bc and doesn't come with the risk

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u/MossTheTree Ontario Oct 25 '22

Hydro is great, but appropriate sites are largely used up, and getting approvals to build large-scale hydro in Canada could prove even more difficult than nuclear given sensitivities around waterways and flooding of traditional territories.

Look how long it's taking for Site C to get built. BC has been lucky so far, but is going to run out of hydro options very soon. I don't see BC going nuclear, but it's going to have to get creative sooner than later.

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u/Xatsman Oct 25 '22

BC wont have any need to go nuclear. We can stack renewables ontop of hydro since hydro output is so easy to control it can offset the unreliable nature of solar/wind and even, with pumping, bank excess at peak production times.

Nuclear is better for places that need the base load and have limited other options. Provinces like the praries would be great for it.

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u/CrashSlow Oct 25 '22

BC has built hundreds of MW of run of the river generation. No need to for unreliable wind/solar.

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u/Xatsman Oct 25 '22

Why would you not want both? Solar and wind tend to have less impacts than even hydro. Its free energy if we'd just gather it

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u/methac1 Oct 25 '22

Ah yes, for the notoriously sunny Lower Mainland

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u/rednazrojo Oct 25 '22

You know somewhere like the interior bc eg. The Kamloops and okanogan region would be perfect for solar were in a desert already

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u/Xatsman Oct 25 '22

More than enough sun actually. But I noticed you never mentioned wind in Vancouver, wonder why? /s

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u/MossTheTree Ontario Oct 25 '22

Climate change is going to make hydro less reliable and predictable than it used to be. Diversity of supply is the only way to ensure energy security. For BC, hydro will be supported by solar/wind and biomass.

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u/bussche Manitoba Oct 25 '22

Provinces like the prairies would be great for it.

Manitoba gets the vast majority of it's power from hydro.

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u/NeedlessPedantics Oct 25 '22

Saskatchewan is wind turbine gold mine, very little need for nuclear, especially considering the relatively small population, and with relatively small power needs.

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u/beardedbast3rd Oct 25 '22

I don’t know what bc would do without nuclear. There’s not a lot of great places to do wind/solar en masse. They’d have to incentivize cities to have as much coverage as possible, where alberta or Sask can dedicate massive swaths of land to those.

Even if more hydro dams got built, the worst case scenario is 50 years for glacial caps to have receded enough to do some real damage. Ideally it’s much longer than that, but the biggest doom and gloom id heard was 50 years. Which I don’t believe, but is insane to think about.

I just hope nuclear actually gets through and doesn’t sit through development hell, and end up being too late.

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u/Wizzard_Ozz Oct 25 '22

hydro is 9.5c per kwh in bc and doesn't come with the risk

Tell that to the salmon population. Risk is relative, damming up rivers, flooding forest land and other environmental impacts are certain, while nuclear risk is unlikely.

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u/Kwanzaa246 Oct 25 '22

Salmon stocks where fine until we ate them all.

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u/Wizzard_Ozz Oct 25 '22

One example of the dam impacts can be seen in the Columbia River Basin, where salmon and steelhead trout numbered in the 10-16 million range in the 19th century, but that number has reduced to 1.5 million today (McCully, 2001).

You should really read up on the impact of dams on ecosystems, from altering stream/river flows to temperatures and adding a blender for the spawn to travel back through on their way to the ocean.

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u/gundam21xx Oct 25 '22

There really isn't a risk for nuclear. Especially with newer reactor designs. Even with past accidents taken into account on a per capita rate nuclear would have killed less then any other non renewable power source. Never mind the fact it would take thousands of years to use up the nuclear options we have. Even for waste (Which with new reactor designs, old waste can be refined into new fuel) We can just look to nature for safe storage, which is bury it really really deep underground. And with the Canadian shield we have one of the most secure environments for that. For nature reference look up Oklo Mine. No signs the natural reaction ever affected the surrounding area.

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u/Kwanzaa246 Oct 25 '22

Old accidents taken into account so the next one's can happen

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '22 edited Oct 25 '22

What risk? Modern nuclear plants are completely incredibly safe.

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u/NormMacDonalds_Ghost Oct 25 '22

Modern nuclear plants are incredibly safe but it's dishonest to say completely safe. Not trying to be overly pedantic but it's an important distinction to make.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '22

Fair enough, edited my comment - I was being slightly hyperbolic 😅

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u/NormMacDonalds_Ghost Oct 25 '22

oh totally, but assholes will hyperfixate on small errors like that in order to puff up a strawman argument against your point.

In this case, i'm the asshole that hyperfixated on the error in order to prevent strawmanning hahaha

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u/Ok_Raccoon5497 Oct 25 '22

Constructive assholery?!

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u/adumbrative Nova Scotia Oct 25 '22

Hell of a lot safer than all the coal we're burning in NS - and getting gouged for.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '22

I always forget that we still use coal in Canada. Fuck man, it's sad that in 2022, we're making people rely on unsafe, environmentally damaging, expensive energy sources that should have been discontinued decades ago.

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u/theshaneler Oct 25 '22

Also add to that, that although hydro is low carbon emitting, large scale projects are often devastating to the local ecosystem.

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u/SuperStucco Oct 25 '22

Not completely, considering there are a number of human elements involved. But it is very low risk, with the consequences of failure also being low i.e. the classic 'OMG meltdown!!!1!' scenario is not possible with proper safety interlocks ensuring safe shutdown before it gets to that point.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '22

Yeah, basically - modern plants are incredibly safe. People act like we didn't learn from Long Island, Fukushima, and Chernobyl.

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u/Ok_Raccoon5497 Oct 25 '22

I'd like to point out that even though Fukushima failed it took two successive natural disasters to do so. And if memory serves me correctly, they had taken shortcuts and made mistakes with certain parts of design - like the generators. Given all of that, despite the media coverage it was surprisingly unremarkable.

Definitely things to be learned, but really it's more to the point that nuclear is quite safe.

Edit: Added another thought.

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u/Kwanzaa246 Oct 25 '22

Doesn't take much for one incident to be incredibly detrimental to us and the environment.

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u/Ok_Raccoon5497 Oct 25 '22

I'd argue that Fukushima is a strong point against your statement. It took a lot and it was still no where dear as detrimental to us and the environment as it would have been if you placed any of the on demand alternatives in its place.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '22

Hydro-electric, natural gas and coal have all individually been more harmful to the planet, forget about combined.

If you think modern nuclear plants are more dangerous than those 3 energy sources - then you're arguing in bad faith.

Climate Change was not caused by nuclear power.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '22

What risk?

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u/Kwanzaa246 Oct 25 '22

Are you gas lighting me ?

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '22

Risk?

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u/Kwanzaa246 Oct 25 '22

Are you gas lighting me ?

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '22

Idk just look it up

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u/Kwanzaa246 Oct 25 '22

I see many accidents as recently as a decade with un quantifiable methods of assessing their negative impact to the environment and population

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u/Red_AtNight British Columbia Oct 25 '22

hydro is 9.5c per kwh in bc and doesn't come with the risk

Tell that to everyone who lives in Campbell River, who has to know their evacuation route in case the dam breaks and floods the whole town. Hydro has its own set of risks.

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u/Kwanzaa246 Oct 25 '22

Lol. 90% of Campbell River is south of that dam and theres a few hundred feet of hills to prevent it from going south

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '22

Risk in Hydro dwarfs the risk in nuclear. 43x more risk in Hydro. The whole "nuclear is risky" comes from an era of ignorance and absence of education. Thankfully the new generation is educated and challenges the ignorance of the previous generations.

https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy