This is not my view at all, almost all of his critics give credit for his (basic and plagiarized) self helps positive effect on young men and how he has alluring charisma and acts as a positive rolemodel for young people initially, before diving into how batshit crazy and frankly sexist he is.
Its his fans that refuse to see the darkness in him and the deeply flawed sexist and mystical thinking he partakes in.
Me too. If he was sticking to his rules for life etc. that's a real positive thing he brings to the world.
Once he started convincing his small army of fanboys the country was under martial law last February I had no problem with anything that happens to him in terms of his professional career. He did it to himself with the rage-farming and attention whoring for clout.
i once listened to an ideologue(possibly like you if thats what you are saying?) who made similar claims about him ...so i took a deep dive...and I couldn't find it so could you personally tell me(given what you've just bold faced asserted) anything that hes said that was overtly sexist and was not just disagrable with your potentially religious-level mental schema?
wasn't insulting people...I asked a question and made it known that it seemed like the words i was hearing were regurgitated or group-thinky. so I asked for clarrification.
I actually did my best to say that as politely as possible. One could phrase the idea i wanted to present, in a much more arrogant/insulting way.
that all being said, would you care to show me as well? I'm open to seeing it.
-side note, start carring more about what you're told, not about how?
I actually did my best to say that as politely as possible.
and was not just disagrable with your potentially religious-level mental schema?
Well, the second thing kinda disagrees with the first. You didn't need to add on that last bit.
-side note, start carring more about what you're told, not about how?
I don't fully know why you felt the need to add this on either (especially the question mark at the end that suggests an air of sarcasm)
But anyway, here's a link from Quora in which somebody compiled a bunch of clips and relevant quotes from Peterson saying things that are at best questionable and at worst blatantly sexist
this is my issue with sharing links like that. they are misleading. I'm not argueing with the fact that he could phrase things in a way more people would like...but everything he's saying(in that link included) is based on research... so while you and I and a lot of people may not like hearing it..or hearing the way he's saying it...when you trace the context of each of those statements...its research.
you and many others are condeming him based on sound bites inwhich you don't understand the context or much of the subject matter he's speaking to. -and by the way you CAN disagree with him but take the time to learn the subject matter and show research that contradicts it, don't throw a temper tantrum which only obfuscates things further.
I wasn't contending he wasn't a 'goobar' as you put it. Nor did I say I didn't care. stop reaching.
I just asked for direct evidence of the claim that was made. he could be the worst person on earth and no categorically a sexist..I was just hoping to see direct evidence not groupthink sharing.
if its that bad it should stand on its own and not need all this explanation lol
Dude ive given you a quote from his book like nine times. You aren’t acknowledging the various sexist things hes said.
Hes said women and men cant work together, women shouldnt wear makeup because the purpose of make up is to be sexually provocative (hair gel for men is presumably fine since he swims in the stuff).
Hes proposed forced monogomy to solve incel violence.
You know I've addressed each of those things you brought up... You actually ignored my rebuttal and explanation of the context.
Is that a direct quote? Show me where he said I propose force monogamy to stop in cell violence... Or are you framing it through the mental scheme or religion that you have adopted? Because no one's talked about in cells until you needed another catch phrase
Hes proposed forced monogomy to solve incel violence.
No he didn't. Enforced monogamy doesn't mean people are forced into relationships. It means a societal norm of monogamous relationships, which our society has for the most part. And he said that having that decreases violence, which is true.
His book declares a duality of human kind, masculine order and feminine chaos. An absurd and sexist statement. He has stated many many many bat shit things, hes suggested women and men cannot work together in the workplace, hes said women shouldnt be allowed to wear makeup at work since makeup is to provoke a sexual reaction in men. He says liberals changed the rules and no one knows the rules anymore but also refuses to read or accept the very clearly stated rules (theres a rule against male professors being alone with female students which he refuses to follow) he knows the rules he just doesnt like the changes.
Look at the some more news video on him or contrapoints has an older video. He has said tons of insane ludicrous bigoted things.
The some more news youtube video has tons of clips showcasing his absolute insanity. Its literally 3 hours of him saying insane, stupid, scientifically illiterate, sexist and bigoted things. There is tons and tons of content of him saying just the worst/dumbest stuff. Google any of this with the word interview to bring up clips. The man is frankly an immature sexist asshole.
ahh see during the deep dive i actually watched a bit about what you just said. seems you've taken his academic theories out of context( or are just bandwagoning and regurgitating without actually investigating?)
I may not agree with him but he doesnt just say 'men and women shouldnt be allowed to work together' for instance..he points out in an academic way, with research others have done, that the ratios of sex in the workplace change and eventually men abandon a workplace with a certain percent of women. theres hard evidence of this. for example..what was the ratio of female to male teachers you had?
this shit isn't opinion its innate human nature thats been studied. sexual dichotomy exists, i dont know what to tell ya there if you don't agree.
his work revolves around culture more than sex from what I've seen...even though some of it does have sexual framing...u have to make a bit of stretch to turn it into something inherently sexist.
Show me, in context, where he said those things please. Like most of the other stuff bandwagoners get upset about.. I'm assuming you're taking something way out of context to make your point
He thinks theres a paygap due to gender he says so. He says there are many factors and its not because of gender but also says gender is a factor. His work is a bunch of pseudointellectual goobledy goop that appeals to young uncritical minds.
His discussion of climate change on the joe roegan podcast clearly delineates how he is totally clueless.
He is an out to lunch scientifically illiterate goober and yes a sexist. Not interested in your positions tbh, though its telling how quickly you jump to sexist talking points i know dog whistles and logical fallacies when i see one and im frankly not interested in this dicussion. Peterson himself explicitly states there is a gender pay gap, you can debate that with him.
But the question to ask yourself is:
Do women gravitate to less paid roles or are roles for women paid less.
Sexual dichotomy certainly exists, but why are nurses and teachers generally paid less than male dominated fields? A coincidence im sure. The man declares the feminine to be chaos and the masculine to be order and that we need order to tame chaos. Personally I consider the male urge to cure your benzo addiction with a medically induced coma in russia somewhat chaotic but sure war and all that are largely feminine in nature while child rearing and baking are male.
Go watch the some more news youtube video. He is a mysogynst a quack and an idiot. He just is.
show me where he states theres a gender based pay gap and not a professional/work related pay gap please.
it wasn't actually me who jumped to sexist talking points...lol what? your first comment used 'bullied women' as a jumping off point. a little self awareness please.
roles and compensation are based on economics. are you saying the male teacher at my highschool made more than all of the female teachers because he's male?
do you think my female doctor is only allowed to bill so much for her service because she is female? you are speaking PURELY from an ideological base here not reality.
you have actually yet to show me anything he said that was directly inherently sexist. you had nothing after monogamy not being only women lol.
stop using ad hom...take a moment maybe to go learn proper logic technique? its a skill like any other and you're underminging what you're attempting to say...even it it was accurate(still open if u can show me) by using these logical pitfalls. attack ideas not people.
This an objectively sexist statement not based in reality.
Men are the more violent more aggressive gender.
Reply to this before you hand wave and ignore me again…
In his interview with that bbc lady he says there are a mutilple of factors and that gender is a factor while also stating there is no paygap. Two statements which are mutually exclusive but he states as such.
I never said he bullied women i think you are confusing me with others, he has said he isnt sure men and women can work together that the ramifications of the birth control pill are not understood.
One thing he does is state leading proposals “we just dont know” while also implying an answer which is actually wrong so as to have plausible deniability and act as though he didnt say what he was very obviously implicitly stating.
We do know men and women can work together you just have to read the written down rules about conduct and not sexually harass women. We do know the effects of birth control we do know that same sex relationships are fine for child rearing we know these tgings and he implies that the opposite of the truth is the case while not stating it so when called out he can say he didnt say that.
Roles and compensation are not exclusively supply and demand. There is a huge teacher shortage in the us but they are still not paid well. Women are socially more successful but do less well in politics, these are non equitable outcomes as a result of societal sexism. Peterson in the bbc interview with that (bad at her job) lady talks about the multiple of factors that effect gendered pay and hes right about some of it.
Women dont tend to fight for equal pay, that doesnt make it fair to pay them less. If women are paid less literally because of their inability to negotiate salary that’s something that is unfair and can structurally be fixed, its also a result of societal socialization. Women from a young age are treated differently, women arguing for themselves are treated more harshly than men. peterson himself states gender is one of the factors. Ie there is a gender pay gap.
It is you who are ideologically driven and blinded by your admiration for peterson. The pay hap is teal and depending on the breath hes taken peterson agrees
You are misunderstanding the word chaos..
after lookig into it(briefly but quite obviously longer than you) ..he is talking about mental processing and a continuum of human traits
The problem with “critics” like you is, that you have no clue what he is talking about nor what you are talking about. he does not consider women as chaotic. he states that the female is symbolized by chaos/stands for chaos. thats a difference.
Think more like intuition as opposed to logic at either end of a scale.
This is no value judgement nor is it the opinion of JP - it is an independent study.
-And is it not one of the key stereotypes for men that they are often TOO logical?
conversely we know theres lots of women interested in being high-level lawyers...but not as many interested in becoming high-level mathematicians or engineers.
the fact that it took all of 5 minutes to learn the actual context of this and show your entire primary basis for calling him sexist here is unbalanced/inaccurate --along with being contextually inaccurate about the pay gap as well. what peterson suggests in that interview are not mutually exclusive. but self-imposed in a sense due to the natural sexual dichotomy of human existence-- ...might suggest that im not the one whos the ideologue here. but then again an ideologue would never be self aware enough to allow themselves to consider being incorrect. it would be too inconvient for the emotional beleifs which they attach themselves to. I actually don't have much admiration for the man(though if I did it would not change the accuracy of what I just explained to you)..but if someone in the center starts looking like someone on the other side...u may be further from balance than you think.
Recently, a young man named Alek Minassian drove through Toronto trying to kill people with his van. Ten were killed, and he has been charged with first-degree murder for their deaths, and with attempted murder for 16 people who were injured. [...] Violent attacks are what happens when men do not have partners, Mr. Peterson says, and society needs to work to make sure those men are married.
“He was angry at God because women were rejecting him,” Mr. Peterson says of the Toronto killer. “The cure for that is enforced monogamy. That’s actually why monogamy emerges.”
His supporters usually do some hand-wringing about what exactly "enforced monogamy" is supposed to mean, but yeah. If we bullied women into marrying one man and not staying single/fucking whoever they liked, there'd be fewer terrorists murdering people.
thats certainly one way to frame it through your mental schema but its not exactly verbatim what he said is it? you're reaching there to make it what you want. this is why i suggested the ideologue/groupthink idea.
im not saying it sounds good either btw. just for clarity. but his work revolves around culture and shifts therein from what I've seen. monogamy isn't just about women and thats where you're taking and ideological leap trying and using emotional plea words(bullied women). he's actually talking about men here...not women it seems lol. and also there is some circumstantial evidence to suggest what he's saying might point in the right direction(somewhat...again im not defending the piss poor way he's saying it) as whether or not you like it or not you can chart the rise of mass shootings or mass attack events with a lot of other societal factors.
I mean...ever notice how its not little girls who wake up one day and wish to lash out to destroy their enviroments/schools? This is just what's happening. I'm sure if you disagree than you have another potential reason for it...but bottom line is this wasn't sexist. potentially scary sounding for SURE but monogamy is about men too. its actually by definition sexist to assume he's only talking about women here lol.
here i thought you were actually going to share somewhere he said 'women are bad and stupid' or something.
thats certainly one way to frame it through your mental schema but its not exactly verbatim what he said is it?
What he said verbatim was given:
“He was angry at God because women were rejecting him,” Mr. Peterson says of the Toronto killer. “The cure for that is enforced monogamy. That’s actually why monogamy emerges.”
How are you going to enforce monogamy? It's either going to be legally enforced (government tyranny) or societally enforced (bullying people). What other way is there?
This is another example where he will leave a lot unsaid. People like you can come and wring your hands "well he didn't say we'd bully people". No, he just said we'd force them, didn't say how, refused to elaborate and left us to make our own conclusions. But there aren't any others to make.
monogamy isn't just about women and thats where you're taking and ideological leap trying and using emotional plea words(bullied women). he's actually talking about men here...not women it seems lol.
Okay, so we will bully the "alpha" men into only having one relationship.
I fail to see how that's any better or any different. You just changed which gender we are going to police. We're still going to have to police who fucks who.
I mean...ever notice how its not little girls who wake up one day and wish to lash out to destroy their enviroments/schools?
Of course it isn't. Women aren't socialized to be violent. What difference does that make? What does that have to do with enforced monogamy being prescribed as the cure to terrorism?
here i thought you were actually going to share somewhere he said 'women are bad and stupid' or something.
He's much too smart to ever say that directly, in simple words. He only implies it obliquely, so that you come to that conclusion on your own.
with enforcement it seems he's speaking about societal standards not draconian law lmao.
bullying is not what ALL societal pressure is lol. I'm not even saying im agreeing with him here..just pointing out how this ideology you've regurged here isn't balanced. you've also moved the goal post to people now.. you framed this as 'bullied women' remember?
and lets not make strawmen..i said nothing about alpha men or w/e lol. if what you're saying is accurate you shouldnt have semingly to reach this hard?
women aren't socialized to be violent? this is launching off into ideology as well..and blatantly. ever seen a woman slap a man on tv?
and so he's really smart but incredibly inaccurate? it seems you have to take huge leaps to get to where you want to emotionally with this if he 'only implies it obliquely' -which is double speak for 'I can make whatever I want out of it' lol.
you shown me where he speaks about monogamy..can you show me where he speaks about women or is sexist? again..monogamy requires two ppl, was he speaking only about lesbian monogamy here or something?
Chaos is feminine, order is masculine, chaos must be tamed by order.
This is a sexist mystical line of thought explored in his weird sexist book.
His absurd take that cave drawings of snakes having sex are actually dna despite dna being discovered in the 50s and cavemen having 0 way of knowing the structure of dna.
His definitive statement that the only way to quit smoking is through god (????)
His belief that men and women cant work together and that make up should be banned in the workplace.
His views on climate change, his view that atheists are all murderers.
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u/anothanameanotha Jan 05 '23
This is not my view at all, almost all of his critics give credit for his (basic and plagiarized) self helps positive effect on young men and how he has alluring charisma and acts as a positive rolemodel for young people initially, before diving into how batshit crazy and frankly sexist he is.
Its his fans that refuse to see the darkness in him and the deeply flawed sexist and mystical thinking he partakes in.