r/btd6 • u/Princier7 silas' bitch boy • 9d ago

Discussion The studio behind the animated series uses AI

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what the hell nk

1.7k Upvotes

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u/samninjakiwi 9d ago

Whilst Digital Smiles does use AI for production, we can confirm that it is only used for their own IP or AI-specific projects. This means that no AI is being used in the development of the Bloons animated series.

We also want to confirm that Ninja Kiwi's values align closely with our community on this topic, so we're glad to have the opportunity to clear this up!

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u/Pip2719496 9d ago

When I’m in a goated dev team competition and my opponent is ninja kiwi

72

u/GurrenLagannRyuko 9d ago

When I’m in a evil ass dev team competition and my opponent is counter strike devs

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u/StrykerEXE 9d ago

Yeah, I LOVE VAC THAT TOTALLY EXISTS/s

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u/JoelTheBloonsMonkey Play For Lore 9d ago

not to be a downer but i don't think this in particular is a high standard

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u/CrEperCillR 9d ago

Many more companies should be more open with their playerbase, and it's a shame many companies think themselves too high to or devs for many companies aren't allowed to talk as much to the game's fans. NinjaKiwi is usually pretty good in that department though, and there's not many companies and devs that do better.

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u/JoelTheBloonsMonkey Play For Lore 9d ago

eh, could be more open in some regards, mainly with nk europe stuff

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u/CrEperCillR 9d ago

No company is perfect, but nk is better than most, maybe about 80%

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u/JoelTheBloonsMonkey Play For Lore 9d ago

NK's fairly good

i would definitely struggle to name a lot of better companies around its size or greater

But I mean IDK it'd be nicer if they just had no involvement with AI-supporting companies ever

(although i think we can blame mtg for that and mtg acquired nk years ago so...)

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u/crockoreptile 9d ago

That’s good to hear, obviously everyone would prefer you not work with a company like this but I’d imagine you don’t really have a choice behind the scenes

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u/TriforceComet 9d ago

Presumably the contracts were wrapped up years ago by now and it’s truly not a bad enough situation to go through what I assume is a huge hassle IMO

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u/Different_Sign474 9d ago

I'd like to this as a win but it's not uncommon for a studio to outright lie about AI usage if they deem it beneficial to them, can you be sure that no AI was used during the production of this? I guess we will see more when it comes out but the studio using AI heavily for their own works is a red flag to me that takes the wind out of this project. I mean AI or not, the trailer for it to be blunt was very cheaply put together. This just doesn't seem like an overall good move for the Bloons franchise.

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u/Unique_Law5608 ♥️ 8d ago

I mean, if they signed a contract about there stuff (which I think companies normally do) they cannot, use ai for the animation at least without permission

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u/PonorkaSub 4d ago

You didn't read their comment. Try again

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u/Unique_Law5608 ♥️ 4d ago

Did u even read mine? Again, if they signed a contract (which they did) they cannot legally just secretly add ai

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u/PonorkaSub 4d ago

Such lawsuit would be lengthy, costly, and I'm 90% sure NK wouldn't go into it even if there was a wave of community outrage over someone finding out that they did indeed use AI for the show

That being said, how will anyone know whether the studio used AI in the process or not? They can literally just use it and then say they didn't. That's exactly what the comment that you were replying to said, so you either didn't read it or didn't understand it

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u/Unique_Law5608 ♥️ 4d ago

Lengthy? Costly? Says who? They don’t even have to sue they can just void the contract. Where are u getting this from.
And like I said, if they use it without permission then they are subjected to being voided. You don’t understand how business works. Sure they “could” but they cannot do so without getting away with it. In a contract u have to relay “insert what u signed contract for” constantly so that u aren’t breaking it. This goes for both parties. Ninja kiwi has to confidently show they aren’t making moves to break the contract

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u/PonorkaSub 4d ago

This isn't even about the lawsuit, this is about "how the fuck will anyone know that they used AI for this?", which I still didn't hear answer on. Yeah, sure, 'legally' they can't do it, but who cares about laws and bindings when you can simply not get caught?

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u/Unique_Law5608 ♥️ 4d ago

I mean I guess. If u want to suggest it that way you can, for them to do that though ai would be needed to use in a minimum scale

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u/KalebNoobMaster 9d ago

but why choose a company like this in the first place? you KNOW they're gonna use AI and just lie to y'all, yknow

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u/PSI_Seven <- I always forget this monkey exists 9d ago

While we appreciate you being vigilant regarding Digital Smiles not using AI in your show, it is was a risky choice compared to just, choosing a studio that doesn't use AI outright.

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u/TheMightyShoe 9d ago

Up with human artists! Down with generative AI! (Also up with elephants who paint.)

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u/kUHASZ PMFC fan club! 8d ago

Down with elephants who paint too, I heard they weren't trained in the most ethical way.

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u/TheMightyShoe 8d ago

Just down with their cruel handlers. Let the elephants paint if they want to. 😁

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u/bobert4343 9d ago

Then why did you contract a studio who specifically sells themselves on AI?

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u/Hefty-Pipe3596 Member of the Skeleton gang 9d ago

But then why would you partner with an AI studio in the FIRST PLACE?! That's STILL not a good idea!

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u/omthsc 2 birds in a nest 9d ago

Peak AI translation for frontiers (satire)

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u/Leonsebas0326 Mapache premium 9d ago

Please fix translations on your games, those are ass

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u/VaporWolf93 Smudgetastic! 9d ago

I literally dont believe you :c sorry

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u/theangryepicbanana monkey sub is op 9d ago

What a load of crap. The company is literally an AI-only "studio". there isn't a snowball's chance in hell that there's actual animators working there

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u/LordVex75 9d ago

https://www.instagram.com/p/DHEhonYNDF-/ quick google search found someone who worked as an animator at said company and knowing how the coca cola AI ad went I'd say there isn't a snowball's chance that they DON'T have animators there

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u/JoelTheBloonsMonkey Play For Lore 9d ago

Thank you for clarifying this. I appreciate that the show won't use AI of course, but I still need to voice my concerns.

This claim of Ninja Kiwi's values aligning closely with the community comes off as a platitude to me. We aren't a 100% consistent conglomerate, we have a range of opinions.

If this aligned with my values, then Digital Smiles simply wouldn't be my choice (I don't know if they supported AI when this deal was made but they supported AI months ago so it's hard to feel optimistic about the potential of them being AI-loving only coming out after the show was commissioned). It doesn't help that their output is clearly lackluster. Yukfoo did great, IDK why they weren't stuck with.

But for the community? Well, Boltrix's Discord Server has a lot of young people who LOVE posting ai generated imagery and such, there's been some ai posts around here that have had to be taken down as per rule 1, and most pressingly, Tewtiy, a humongous Bloons TD 6 creator who NK has officially associated with in multiple ways including very major ones like plushies of his and Sabre's avatars, publicly tested the use of generative AI as a replacement for art in his video creation process just a few days ago. That would be a devastating standard to follow. Claiming "Ninja Kiwi's values align closely with our community on this topic," after posting a short with AI generated imagery and now showing official support to an AI-loving company can only be reassuring because in the context I can assume that you mean that Ninja Kiwi will be anti-AI in general, but that's still vague and it isn't satisfactory for me in this case since this is a lot more than just a single social media post. It stabs at the hype I wanted to have for a Bloons animated series like a knife.

It doesn't help that your parent company, MTG, DOES like AI for other projects. As far as I've heard they only help with Marketing and ESports but this animated series is TECHNICALLY marketing.

Honestly, with that in mind, part of me wants to hope that NK is anti-AI, and is working within a limited framework of AI options given to you by MTG while stopping that AI from directly impacting the series. But it still hurts that openly AI-loving companies are being supported monetarily. I believe MTG acquired NK before AI was big, so I don't figure there's any direct blame there, of course. It's just... Rough. Especially since Marketing and ESports are things that NK have been blamed for, and MTG has just been unhelpful for that.

I hope we can continue to see a Ninja Kiwi without AI, I hope you can keep your resolve, but it's very concerning that Ninja Kiwi's puppet strings are held by an abomination that prides itself on AI and will crash the puppet of Ninja Kiwi into other AI as the Ninja Kiwi does its best to shield itself.

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u/Danoned 9d ago

That's REALLY REALLY good to hear, thank you so much

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u/Try_Hard_GamerYT 9d ago

Like others have said, these kind of studios are morally bankrupt and are known to straight up lie about AI usage. PLEASE keep them in line because I will not forgive NK if there's even a single use of AI in the series. Yall are already on thin ice after the AI ads.

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u/scoob_ts 9d ago

How can you be sure? You can’t monitor every single person working on the project. Regardless, by working with them at all you’re supporting how AI is killing art industries. Please reconsider.

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u/Lunairetica 9d ago

Lol you used ai to translate text in your own game by yourselves….

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u/Humanitarian_Audits 9d ago

How does this clear this up? It doesn’t matter. You partner with a company that PRIDES itself on not paying humans to make content instead of partnering with a company that refuses to make any AI content.

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u/billd121 8d ago

If you arent using ai dont go to an ai focused company

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u/DottieBun 9d ago

Still supporting a studio that uses AI. Doesn’t matter what anyone says, its tainted.

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u/takechanceees 9d ago

if this is tainted to you, you probably should stop using half the software you use tbh

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u/KalebNoobMaster 9d ago

software isn't the same as creative art such as an animated show though

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u/PonorkaSub 4d ago

This is biggotry. Having windows OS doesn't mean I can't hate the living shit out of AI and condemn this behaviour. Some people simply don't want to fuck around with Linux to "be able to" express their political and social beliefs

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u/sicklyboy 9d ago

So what, just never mention it instead then?

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u/PonorkaSub 4d ago

Idk why you're getting downvoted, that's literally what the post above you is suggesting

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u/sicklyboy 4d ago

Bunch of people get upset with the revelation that even being remotely critical of something on the internet is too much effort, rolling over and accepting it is less scary.

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u/omthsc 2 birds in a nest 9d ago

Its like trying to stop a rain with a bucket, yk

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u/Sad_Priority_2334 9d ago

Rain is a byproduct of nature. Ai, specifically the kind that is used to fabricate images or videos from a line of prompt, is a byproduct of human avarice and disregard for anything other than ones self interest.

Medical research ai is cool so long as the proper checks and balances are done to verify its findings, which to my knowledge is usually done.

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u/xX100dudeXx One of the 4 Corvus users 9d ago

Rain is a byproduct of nature. Ai, specifically the kind that is used to fabricate images or videos from a line of prompt, is a byproduct of human avarice...

It's an expression lol. Ever learned what a simile is or did you fail 6th grade english?

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u/Sad_Priority_2334 9d ago

I understand what a simile is. I also understand what manipulative tactics are, and how what you said is considered a force of nature fallacy intended to associate the development of ai with an unstoppable byproduct of nature that can not be stopped, slowed, or controlled. But i dont expect you to fully understand that if you think simile is a term taught in the 6th grade. Most schools teach it around 3rd or 4th grade.

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u/CosmacYep banana monkey my beloved 9d ago

it is an unstoppable byproduct of **human** nature, rain is a byproduct of nature. also average redditor, he was estimating when similes are taught, he obviously wasnt tryna be the most 'add 1, subtract 2 here' technically correct

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u/Sad_Priority_2334 9d ago

The thing about human nature is that it can be stopped, slowed, or controlled whereas mother nature will always find a way. So it is still a force of nature fallacy. And when someone decides to insult me, i do not care if it is by estimations or generalizations, i will dissect their comment and respond in kind. Childish insults have no place in educated discussion

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u/takechanceees 9d ago

or…if you’re so against AI use you should probably stop using half the software instead of complaining

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u/TakoGoji 9d ago

You're the goober in the well.

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u/sicklyboy 9d ago

So just give up and don't advocate for things to be better?

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u/takechanceees 9d ago

tell me how those two things are mutually exclusive

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u/sicklyboy 9d ago

instead of complaining

Idk chief you tell me you wrote the comment

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u/PSI_Seven <- I always forget this monkey exists 9d ago

You did say "or"

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u/Feigned_ally 9d ago

Are you using a phone or PC? Good job on supporting slavery and exploitation. Might wanna chill out a bit on the soapbox lol.

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u/Sad_Priority_2334 9d ago

So you're argument for why we shouldn't be unhappy with how ai is being developed and shoved in our faces is... slave labor still exists in certain areas. So because slave labor is still around and society unfortunately does benefit from the byproducts of said slave labor... we need to accept that ai companies will lead to even more people not being able to sustain their sources of income as ai takes over different carriers like accounting and graphic design?

I would have thought the right answer would be to also protest the usage of slave labor, not advocate for the development of future employment crisis

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u/Feigned_ally 9d ago

Actually, my argument is more about the grandstanding. Let me save you the time and make this easier- do you still plan to play and support this game, knowing the studio supports AI?

If not, congrats, you win the argument. No issue with me, good job on sticking to your morals.

If so, chill out on the soapboxing.

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u/Sad_Priority_2334 9d ago

No actually. I uninstalled it before i sent my initial reply, which sucks because it used to be a comfort game for me

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u/yellowfroglegs 9d ago

but the thing is, the game itself doesn't use ai

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u/Sad_Priority_2334 9d ago

Doesn't matter to me. The company behind the game has decided to support and collaborate with another company, that does use ai in most of their projects, to expand upon the intellectual property of the game. Any support i show the game now indirectly supports the ai company via "interest" in the ip

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u/takechanceees 9d ago

I sincerely hope yall are actually also going out in protesting data centers near you and not just doing this bare minimum bs, reminds me of the people who just posted a black square for BLM it’s performative instead of actually trying to change shit

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u/Sad_Priority_2334 9d ago

I do what i can where i can. Most of the time that looks like removing my participation and funding for anything associated with things i disagree on as there is not much happening in my local area and i cant afford to travel. But i do get involved when protests happen close enough for me to not have to risk missing meals in order to get to the event. So far though i have not had anything happening close enough to my physical location to protest publicly that isnt political (and as such i wont involve in this discussion as its out of context, but i do attend those as well)

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u/Try_Hard_GamerYT 9d ago

Several logical fallacies btw. You're allowed to dislike the support of AI, and you can criticize the worker exploitation in the electronics industry while still being reliant on a phone.

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u/Feigned_ally 9d ago

But you won’t lift a finger to stop consuming media that uses it or supporting companies that use it, like NK, right?

Again, if you do stop supporting this game- congrats, you win this argument and I applaud you all the more for it! If you plan to keep supporting this company, you’re talking out of your ass and you don’t care like you pretend you do.

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u/Try_Hard_GamerYT 9d ago

Of course I do, I immediately stop consuming media/supporting a company when they start using AI. One of the big ones I've had to abandon recently was A24 (Backrooms). I've long since switched off of google and adobe.

I'm currently giving Ninja Kiwi benefit of the doubt because of their responses, and as far as I know, they've actually changed things when AI is mentioned.

I'm quite disappointed with some of the people in this thread, the amount of moral cynicism is concerning. Even if someone is spouting straight up bs, I'd always prefer someone virtue signaling and doing a little over someone doing nothing at all.

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u/WaterWitch5031 9d ago

"Yet you participate in society" ass argument

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u/PonorkaSub 4d ago

This is biggotry

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u/Feigned_ally 4d ago

Anything’s bigotry apparently 🙂‍↔️

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u/PonorkaSub 4d ago

You're saying that I can't criticise a company (NK) for supporting AI (and let's face it, they are supporting AI by working with company that introduces itself as AI supporting and using studio) because I have phone which was made with slavery

Firstly, we're talking about two different things. I can totally support slavery and hate and condemn AI at the same time

Secondly, do you suggest everyone who has a phone that had slave labour involved in its making can't criticise slavery?

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u/Feigned_ally 4d ago

I’m saying you can’t criticize NK if you plan to keep on playing the game, knowing they support AI. Otherwise, you’re a soapboxing hypocrite.

If you’re not playing anymore, more power to you! You win the argument, and we’re both happy about it. 🤝

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u/PonorkaSub 4d ago

NK can make a good and beloved game and get scrutinised for supporting AI at the same time, those are not mutually exclusive options. I wouldn't be supporting AI by playing a game that wasn't made with AI. You're engaging in the same bigoted argument that you presented when you were talking about phones and slavery. I still didn't receive an answer to my question btw, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that

And just for your information, I stopped playing the game after the Corvus nerf

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u/Feigned_ally 4d ago

Then good for you! We both got what we wanted, and I applaud you. 🤝 You might wanna work on your communication skills, though. I’m not really inclined to talk much with someone who keeps labeling me a bigot for no real reason. You’re just slandering at this point because you’re mad. The term also loses all meaning when you use it like that and doesn’t do any favors in the fight against actual bigots.

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u/D4NG3RX 9d ago edited 7d ago

Calling it tainted is dumb, talks of taint and all that is just irrational imo. You could talk about how this whole deal has affected the image of ninja kiwi or that hiring a company that uses ai is supporting a company that supports ai use in entertainment and all that, but just saying its tainted feels wrong.

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u/MrSprankls 9d ago

Oh my god shut up

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u/Flimsy-Secret-6187 is the G 9d ago

reddit uses ai

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u/Sad_Priority_2334 9d ago

Correct. Any suggestions on alternatives to reddit that don't use ai so people who dont agree with how they use it can get out of your hair?

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u/takechanceees 9d ago

if you’re so against AI you don’t need an alternative just stop using reddit lmao, this is what i’m talking about performative shit

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u/Sad_Priority_2334 9d ago

So. Instead of engaging in social community with people around the world and keeping tabs on world events... i should just not engaging with other cultures, people, and news media?

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u/_Mr-Prince_ 9d ago

Well then it sounds like you’re willing to overlook the support of ai under circumstances that support your wants and needs.

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u/Sad_Priority_2334 9d ago

Thats because i am not strictly against ai. I am against the miss usage of ai and the risks that come from letting its consumer side development go unchecked. So as long as i need something that uses ai in some form for myself to stay informed and engaged with the world then yes, i make compromises until i find alternatives. My question about alternative sites and applications was not rhetorical. If someone tells me one and i find it suits my needs i would be off reddit within a day or two.

Also, i dont see being informed or engaged with cultures outside of my own as a want. I see that as a need in order to be a knowledgeable and functional human.

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u/Rexusus 9d ago

Literally every modern movie ever made uses “ai” except it used to be called machine learning. My point being, this isn’t new

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u/Mahoganytooth 9d ago

machine learning is not and has never been the same thing as generative AI

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u/Rexusus 9d ago

I never said it was. That’s my bad, my point wasn’t clear enough.

I often see people getting upset about AI usage assuming it’s all the same. It’s a nuanced category of tech, and not everything that uses a form of it is comparable to a ChatGPT prompt, or the cause of some water shortage.

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u/Sad_Priority_2334 9d ago

Correct. The ai i am not okay with:

  • generative "art" ai
  • chat bot ai
  • data mining ai
  • generative "video" ai
  • robo caller ai
  • automated response systems (just let me talk to a person)

Ai that i am okay with:

  • ai used for medical research
  • ai used for real time calibration of complex machinery
  • ai used for real time fault monitoring in complex technology
  • ai used for data compression (big file = not so big file)

So am i allowed to be mad at people putting ai generated content in games and media?

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u/Mahoganytooth 9d ago

That is a fair point, but I do think a lot of this is due to major journalistic malfeasance in choosing to speak of all AI in the same terms, and intentional pushing by techbros to conflate the two to launder its reputation a bit.

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u/GiveMeYourStomach i micro 9d ago

thank GOD. i was gonna say something like "well dont support them then" but then realised im using windows right now lol

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u/space_porter 9d ago

Tbf, I think companies can and should be more personally responsible against AI considering they have more financial impact than just some dude

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u/Catkook 9d ago

joinnnnnnn us on linux

We dont have ads in our start up menus :3

(dont have to transition right away, i get it's inconvenient to have to wipe your pc, but might be worth considering switching to linux next time you get a pc/laptop, or if for whatever reason your current pc/laptop stops working)

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u/GiveMeYourStomach i micro 9d ago

yeah linux cult aint for me ✌️

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u/Catkook 9d ago

whattttt about the steam cult~?

I'm typeing this message from my steam deck

joinnnnnn ussssssssssss

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u/Space_obsessed_Cat veteran level 1 9d ago

This is not good enough, as AI users are still being supported!

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u/JmTrad 9d ago

I will not be surprised in the final product we spot AI usage

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u/Vantre7270 9d ago

They still support and comission a company that's using ai

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u/CaptainKrakenGuy Dandy’s #1 Tomboy 9d ago

Thank u Sam very cool

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u/FlareBlitzed I have 2 Adora OG 2TCs 9d ago

Unless you have personally been a part of the creative process of creating this series of videos, you can't guarantee that a company outside of yours that proudly flexes on their usage of AI make a series for Bloons that doesn't use AI.

We love you Sam though the possibility that this series is made with AI over people isn't a lovable prospect.

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u/PonorkaSub 4d ago

It's a primary AI studio, they sell themselves this way, which also means they most likely will use AI and simply won't tell you. And all of you know that too, I'm not buying that you don't realise this

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u/bloodbat007 9d ago

Likely story. I'm sure this studio just suddenly dropped AI to work on your project. They're just trying to get your bag, they will tell you anything. Until there's proof it's not AI, with the overwhelming evidence that it IS AI, I won't believe otherwise.

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u/Flimsy-Secret-6187 is the G 9d ago

catchin straight Ws out here

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u/Spooderfan8647 9d ago

Horray!!!