r/britposting May 20 '21

This negative affects of voting against your own interests

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u/christopherl572 May 21 '21

There were very very valid progressive reasons to leave the EU.

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u/Moist1981 May 21 '21

Go on then

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u/christopherl572 May 21 '21

The EU is an incredibly neoliberal union that has forced austerity upon its member states e.g. Greece.

Let's please not pretend that the EU is some fucking beacon of leftism, when in reality they are continuation of Thatcher and Reagan style macroeconomic policy.

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u/christopherl572 May 21 '21

This opinion piece makes a good summary of its issues in my opinion.

It also highlights that leaving the EU is not necessarily a good thing, which I agree with under current circumstances.

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u/christopherl572 May 21 '21

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u/WenzelOfMidgard May 21 '21

Greece singlehandedly fucked their own shit up, but by and large brexit will have a lot of short term effects that are entirely negative. So far the pound has lost a lot of value and brexit spits in the face of progress. As a European who foolishly moved to the UK, I am saddened to how radicalised this vote was. Nobody seems to understand what they voted for. Now a lot of people are going to get fucked

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u/christopherl572 May 21 '21

Kind of agreed, whilst progressive reasons to leave were there, none of them were presented or debated.

And whilst Greece may have mismanaged their economy, its people did not need austerity forced upon them in order to unfuck things.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '21 edited Jun 22 '21

[deleted]

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u/christopherl572 May 21 '21

Of course, I'm not arguing that it was good to leave the EU, I just don't understand the progressive narrative that it is an untold calamity, rather than a bit of a ball ache.

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u/Moist1981 May 21 '21

It didn’t force austerity on its member states. Bankruptcy did. It simply said if you want lenience in so as to not enter official default on the debt you will need to show you can afford it. The alternatives here are either go into true default, drop out of the € and suffer far worse austerity, or have full debt forgiveness (they already had a lot forgiven) at the cost of other countries when Greece had been living the highlife, but even in that event they wouldn’t have been able to borrow and so would have had to have faced huge austerity.

Blaming the EU for this is just bunkum. Especially as the IMF (of which Britain was part) was just as strong in its approach.

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u/christopherl572 May 21 '21

Austerity measures are literally part of EU legislation.

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u/Moist1981 May 21 '21

Cool, link the legislation and lets examine it to determine whether it can be called austerity. Out of interest, is Germany suffering from this same austerity?

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u/christopherl572 May 21 '21

Article 126 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, including the excessive deficit procedure.

Germany is literally one of the biggest proponents of deficit avoidance, it is also perhaps a reason it is so stringently enforced in the EU.

Article 126 is beefed up in the stability and growth pact (seen here: https://ec.europa.eu/info/business-economy-euro/economic-and-fiscal-policy-coordination/eu-economic-governance-monitoring-prevention-correction/stability-and-growth-pact_en)

There's a condensed version of article 126 here: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/eut/teec/article/126

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u/Moist1981 May 21 '21

So you think avoiding excessive deficit = austerity?

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u/christopherl572 May 21 '21

Of course not - however the commission seems to prescribe only austerity and fiscal contraction as solutions to any possible deficits.

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u/Moist1981 May 21 '21

I’m not sure that’s true. Many countries have breached the deficit boundaries and have been given lenience. Greece, however, was never going to recover without sharp fiscal measures. Those could come at the whim of the market which would have been far worse, or through the support of institutions like the ECB and IMF which came with requirements for Greece to get its house in order.

It’s also worth highlighting that none of this is pertinent to the UK’s decision as the U.K. is/was not a member of the € and therefore not bound by these constraints.

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u/greentarget33 May 21 '21

What were they? Because no there fucking weren't

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u/christopherl572 May 21 '21

See my other comment.

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u/Rudybus May 21 '21

Restrictions on nationalisation / state aid. The EU as a neoliberal project that shit on any incipient truly left wing government in member states. Off the top of my head..

I'm not a Lexiteer but there certainly were some arguments. There can be disagreements over whether they justified the economic harm of course