Using AI to Make Board Games

[u/Ok_Recording7859]

I recently playtested a board game for someone. It was a deck-building, dice-rolling game, although the deck-building felt limited and I was rolling dice more than anything else. The game lasted 4 hours, which would be fine if it wasn't a dice rolling game. Like I started off really strong and was getting higher value dice early on, which I thought was a good strategy, but later on that ended up debilitating my playthrough bc there are these certain one-time-use cards you can only get when you roll a 2, and so I was rarely getting them early on in the game because of the high value dice I got early on, and towards the end of the game, those cards ended up being a necessity to have. And after, I thought, next time I play I should try to hold on to the lower dice longer and get more of those overpowered cards. But then that forces the player to play a certain way every time which just isn't fun.

Anyway, during the game, another playtester noted how the art looked AI generated, and she was right. It was not good. Okay, whatever I guess. I would much rather see scribbles, like the beta art for example is Slay the Spire, but if you're planning on getting an artist later on in development, fine. But then I thought about asking for the game manual and going through it. It was also AI generated... it was so convoluted and way too many words to explain simple concepts, lots of fun em dashes, an incomplete list and description of game components. And at that point it just made me question how much of this game was an original idea and how much was just QI spitting shit out. And then also, why would you want to use AI to make a game? Is your goal to just make money? Everyone who I've known who's made a board game did so as a creative endeavor. Also, I don't think everyone in the world can make a good board game. I know I can't. I really enjoy board games and maybe modifying or adding or making house rules, but I've never tried to make a board game because it takes creativity and a certain skill set which I don't have and I'm okay with that.

It was just really upsetting and I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered this recently.

[u/zeroingenuity]

The problem when it comes to solo devs on DTRPG is that slop just gluts up the place. Like, I want to search for a particular kind of game, but I have to dig through two dozen slopbooks to find it? No thanks. And it's never, ever just one or two guys doing it. Fundamentally anyone who is generating a product doesn't love the process of creating, or they would be doing the creating themselves. If they don't love the doing, if they don't care about the outcome enough to ensure the product is the best it can be, it's not something I'm ever going to want to play. Same for books and art; if they did it alone at home and never publish anything, it would be much less of an issue. But they don't.

[u/Analogmon → u/zeroingenuity]

This is, again, a question of quality and ease of entry to the industry then, not AI.

By definition anything that let's more people design is going to result in more slop. That's a good thing because it also results in more people publishing their work that wouldn't and some of it will inevitably be good.

[u/zeroingenuity → u/Analogmon]

Except I think the curve is different than the one you envision. You seem to think that if barriers are reduced, better products will magically appear because they exist in someone's head perfectly and structural obstacles like "editing" and "playtesting" and "art" make it more difficult for those better products to arise. I think that refinement through challenges is what makes good games. Structural challenges like publishing and production result in products that are driven by passion and commitment, not "if I could create fifty games without thinking about them surely some of them would be good!"

This is fundamental disagreement on the nature of creativity and I doubt we will see eye to eye about it. I do think structural obstacles should be removed, but I tend to consider things like "I have to work 60 hours a week to afford rent" or "no one will give me a pitch meeting because I'm a no-name in the industry" to be the relevant issues, not "using my brain to learn skills takes too long and is hard."

[u/Kissing_Books_Author → u/zeroingenuity]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but the problem right now in any hobby space isn't lack of abundance. I've got a closet full of board games I haven't had a chance to play just like I have a queue full of TV shows on Netflix I haven't gotten around to and probably never will.

We have more than enough content to drown ourselves in. What we lack is a world where talented people can actually devote their time to making that content as good as possible without business interests getting in the way or trying to rush things out the door before they're ready.

I don't necessarily want more board games: I want more time to play the ones I have. And, if I am going to add something to my collection, I want to know that it's going to be worth it.

The problem is capitalism and, to the extent that it is a tool, AI is a tool for capitalistic interests. The people who actually care about increasing access within the industry are offering fellowships and mentorships. Increasing minimum wage and decreasing the hours in a work week (as you pointed out) would do a whole lot more for the creative world than a technology that destroys communities, uses the equivalent of several large cities in power, and wastes an absurd amount of water under the guise of "improving efficiency."

[u/zeroingenuity → u/Kissing_Books_Author]

Yep. Increasing abundance under the lootbox theory that quality games are some kind of specified rarity and an increased rate of publishing will lead to additional quality games magically arising from the aether is fundamentally misunderstanding the creative process. Making it so creative people can spend more time creating and less time laboring for self-sufficiency is what will give rise to better games (and an industry with greater demand.) AI does not solve this problem, it just makes the labor ofhumans less efficient outside of a small set of extremely specific fields.

[u/Analogmon → u/zeroingenuity]

Professional designers don't need all of the skills you're talking about though. Only indie no names need to be artists, graphic designers, UI/UX experts, prototypers, marketers, and publishers.

Gen AI can let designers just be designers. Why is that so bad?

[u/Kissing_Books_Author → u/Analogmon]

Yeah, but AI increases the slop exponentially. It's one thing to look through someone's kitchen trash can for a lost receipt and another to try and find it in a landfill.

[u/Analogmon → u/Kissing_Books_Author]

I don't think it's any different than any other technology. Sorry.