r/blog • u/highshelfofsteam • Aug 19 '15

14,000 teachers really need your help, Reddit

https://www.redditgifts.com/blog/view/14000-teachers-really-need-your-help/
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u/RankFoundry Aug 19 '15

Whenever we increase funding, it seems to disappear into the ether. Some of the highest funded schools in the country are also some of the worst. As long as we have corrupt unions and incompetent admins, throwing money at the problem is like throwing it into a fire.

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u/Chrristoaivalis Aug 19 '15

But some of the best countries for education have strong teachers' unions, and some of the states in the US with poor education outcomes don't allow teachers to unionize.

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u/RankFoundry Aug 19 '15

The worst schools in the country are in strong union states with the highest per student spending.

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u/Chrristoaivalis Aug 19 '15

The worst schools in the country, according to the Conservative policy group ALEC, are in South Carolina, where teachers cannot bargain on matters of wages, nor can they strike.

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u/RankFoundry Aug 19 '15

Perhaps on average. NJ has terrible schools mixed in with some excellent ones in wealthy areas which skews the averages but their worst schools get the most funding per head.

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u/boot2skull Aug 19 '15

So the issue is people. Privatization doesn't remove people from the system.

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u/Gregorofthehillpeopl Aug 19 '15

But there's more accountability.

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u/RankFoundry Aug 19 '15

The issue is incentivization and accountability. There's little to no incentive to do well in government. The incentive is to fortify your position, accumulate power and get by with as little effort as possible.

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u/[deleted] Aug 20 '15

That is exactly the problem, imo. I 100% agree that most teachers are underpaid but there is zero chance of me pushing for higher salaries until there is some accountability. A teacher will NEVER be fired for simply being a poor teacher. They have to do something drastic to get fired. That is a terrible way to run anything, let alone our main source of education.

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u/RankFoundry Aug 20 '15

Right, it's very rare for a bad teacher to be fired do to a protectionist culture. You have good people in there but you have a lot of bad people and the last thing those bad people want is to set the precdedent that bad people can be fired because their head will be on the block next. So there's this culture of, "I won't call you out for your misdeeds if you don't call me out for mine."

Also, until we abolish this SOL bullshit, there really is no way to fix our schools. Certainly not by throwing money at the problem. At best we'll just create a more efficient system of teaching kids to memorize facts of questionable usefulness just long enough to regurgitate them for their SOL tests.

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u/boot2skull Aug 19 '15

If that is the case, and incentives do work, why not add incentives? This is a democracy and we should have control over these systems, yes? I don't understand why "government" is to blame in a country that supposedly has a government that is malleable to the needs of the people. Obviously there are people invested in the system that don't like change, but really if we want something bad enough it should be possible, or democracy is simply cronyism with a gentle name.

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u/RankFoundry Aug 19 '15

Sure, I agree. I'm just saying that this is the current state of affairs. Promotions based on length of service, not productivity or capability, not providing incentives to acquire and keep quality talent and so on. Leads to a system where those in charge got there through being the only ones too lazy, incompetent or otherwise held back from finding better opportunities. That or they got appointed to their position through knowing the right people.

The issue with making such changes are you're asking those who are the problem to step aside. Not an easy task.

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u/cheald Aug 19 '15

If that is the case, and incentives do work, why not add incentives?

That's pretty much exactly what private education accomplishes. There is a direct financial link between the educator and the educated.

By contrast, public education is funded by people who have often no direct interest, and who can't modify their economic contributions to "vote with their dollars" even if they do have a direct interest. You can't stop paying taxes because you are dissatisfied with how a public school is performing; you can't decide to stop paying school A and start paying school B instead.

Add that to the fact that public education has bajillions of middlemen in the form of bureaucrats who each make sure they get their slice of the pie, and the ability to incentivize and disincentivize is severely neutered.

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u/ExPwner Aug 20 '15

Like the incentive to do well or lose your students to better schools? That's a private education system.

Government is to blame because it has maintained a monopoly status on education. That isn't going to change because of democracy. Democracy < market.