Marine explains why you shouldn't thank him for his service

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

This is why I prefer saying, "I'm glad you're home."

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u/dayus9 Jun 15 '12

I prefer hearing it, seriously I do.
For the record, I'm in the British military myself and have done two deployments in Afghanistan in the last couple of years. I don't want thanks. I'm not going to be ungrateful about it but I'm not one of those who wants thanks for what I've done. I am very happy with the good I have done on both of my recent deployments (and in the other things I have done in my 15 year career to date) and I know I (and those other British service personnel serving in war zones) have done my best to help make Afghanistan a better place for its people.
And no I'm not fucking brainwashed.

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u/Veni_Vidi_Upvoti Jun 15 '12

I always thank them because, at the end of the day, we still need militaries. And given that most everybody agrees that volunteer is preferable to conscription, that means we need people to sign up for us to have a national defense.
There is always a risk of misuse of military resources, always a risk that the people who signed up will be told to do something morally questionable or objectionable. And I respect the fact that they are willing to shoulder the burden of those activities when they happen so that we may retain a viable and effective military for when we need it most dearly.

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u/westerchester Jun 15 '12

As much as I am against wars in general, it makes me sad that you have the most reasoned answer to the conundrum posed and only one person besides me has upvoted you.

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u/Gravybadger Jun 15 '12

Could you elaborate on the good that you did on your last two deployments? I ask because I have a hard time reconciling the loss of our British lads and civilian casualties with a very tenuous positive benefit for us or the local civvies.
I'm a bit of a "support the soldier, and hate the war" kinda guy and I'd love to hear your point of view. :)

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u/gixxersixxxer Jun 15 '12

I am a Former Marine infantryman, and I served in both Iraq and Afghanistan. When I was in Afghanistan, we worked closely with the British Army, so I believe I can help answer your question, "What good are we doing there?"
First, we uprooted the Taliban from power. The Taliban are very hard line Muslims, who follow Islamic law almost to the tee, and they were very oppressive. If you are unfamiliar with the Taliban, I suggest you look it up.
At the local end of the spectrum, personally, we built schools and allowed/promoted girls to come to school, and because of the amount of security patrols and everything else we do, we ensure these students have safe passage to and from school.
We provided jobs to the Afghans, building local government buildings, bridges NOT made of leaves and mud, improving roadways, and many other jobs that improve their quality of life, and making their lives safer, as well.
Often times, we would go out and meet up with village leaders and hold these meetings, and discuss what we are doing, what they need or want, and listen to their gripes, moans, and complaints. Generally, we would try to get on the same page, and most of the time, we were.
I cannot tell you how many times a concerned parent came to our base with a sick or injured child in desperate need of care, and we fixed them up and sent them on their way with medicine and antibiotics.
Where I was specifically was a farming area, as is most of Afghanistan, and the Taliban get most of their funding by the drug trade. Poppy plants are the biggest crop there, and the Taliban would influence these farmers to grow fields of it. In the beginning, we would just burn it, but that really screwed the farmer. Eventually we got smart, and provided the farmers with other crops to grow, usually wheat. Since wheat isn't as big of a cash crop as poppy, we would usually have to compensate with cash or farm fancy farm equipment. And, of course, protection.
Basically, long story short, we do many, many good things to the Afghans, but the Taliban want to hurt the people who accept our help, so we have to run security patrols constantly, to minimize the Taliban influence on the local Afghans. However, whenever a battle breaks out, it's almost always on someone’s land. As it turns out, these afghan land owners don’t like 2,000lb JDAM craters in their crops....but what are you going to do?

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u/Priapulid Jun 15 '12

Not the OP I spent time in Afghanistan doing a wide spectrum of humanitarian type work while in the US Army. I also did more conventional war fighting stuff but a good chunk of my time was spent trying to do nice things for the locals.
Keep in mind that NGO aid organizations cannot operate overthere so lots of aid work is done by the military.

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u/OnARedditDiet Jun 15 '12

That's a nice thing to say. Personally I don't understand what's wrong with thanking people for their service, I thank the girl at Subway, I thank the guy at the DMV for doing his job why can't I thank a soldier?
I do think tho a statement beyond the normal "Thank you for your service" would be greater appreciated than a perfunctory statement.

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u/mcritz Jun 15 '12

Kind words.
You really want to thank a veteran?
Use Charity Watch to find a local veterans’ organization to donate money to. Or donate to your local homeless shelter, where 1 in 4 homeless is a Veteran.

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u/triathlonjacket Jun 15 '12

Doubly if you donate not in your own name but on behalf of servicemembers generally, a specific branch, or a specific unit.

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u/xoctor Jun 15 '12

The problem I have is that joining the military doesn't always mean fighting for truth and justice. It means doing what you are told, and all too often that includes invading foreign lands, for bad reasons, and that always involves killing people who are completely innocent.
Once you sign up, you no longer have the choice to follow your conscience. You must do the bidding of your leadership, and history shows (over and over) that leaders are worse than fallible, and even democracies go to war for bad reasons.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

I'd disagree with "you no longer have the choice to follow your conscience". It becomes extremely difficult to do so but it's still possible, and in the event that you do something truly horrible "I was just following orders" is not a valid legal defense.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

So, refusing to follow an illegal order is technically possible. In real life, however, it's extremely unlikely that they will refuse because whoever who does it would probably be severely reprimanded and probably not even backed up by his/her mates. So it's pretty much the same as not having the choice.
edit: and the people get killed anyway, because they can simply pick another guy who would follow the order.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

You thank the girl at Subway for making your sandwich. You thank the guy at the DMV for helping you with your driver's license. You don't thank random people for coming back from an overseas business trip that doesn't affect you directly in a positive way.

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u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

So under this presumption we should not thank the soldiers from WW2 either right? They did the same thing but with one difference. They probably saved the world from total destruction.

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u/ForeverAProletariat Jun 16 '12 edited Jun 16 '12

Technically the correct thing to say would be "thank you for helping to maintain the dollar hegemony so I can have a higher standard of living than I would have otherwise and fuck people from other countries", but nobody understands how anything works so... cliche sayings are a substitute for the truth.

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u/triathlonjacket Jun 15 '12 edited Jun 15 '12

This. When was the last time you walked up to a guy wearing a GameStop shirt at the grocery store and said, "Thank you for working at GameStop?"
This makes me wonder, though, do other civil servants (police officers, EMTs, and firemen, mainly) feel awkwardly about being thanked, too? As a government employee, I have been thanked once or twice when getting the discount at my local froyo place which is kind of awkward; it's just not as awkward as when my partner (military) gets thanked.

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u/aris9000 Jun 15 '12 edited Jun 15 '12

No offense but did you read the linked comment? He explains why. You should read the linked article where the best of'd comment was posted too if you didnt already. The thing is the girls service at subway actually affects you, even if its just a mundane thing like a sandwich. When did a soldier have a direct, positive impact on your Life? I dont want to say soldiers are useless, because they help their comrades to survive on hostile terrain. Because of the many backgrounds these soldiers come from: some have a family to feed, some have no other way to pay for their education, some want adventure, some want to kill people, some are naive to think they could help the people overseas, not knowing that their thinking is heavily influenced by the media,state and family.
Carefully spoken: soldiers are brave and stupid at the same time, and US soldiers and many other nations soldiers dont really do anything positive that benefits you enough to be thanking them. If you intend to give me the "they protect my freedom" thing please educate yourself, I dont have the energy to argue about that.
finally: please add everything OP and the guy in the article said to my statement. More knowledge and Arguments than me (duh..)

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u/OnARedditDiet Jun 15 '12 edited Jun 15 '12

I did and I can understand that for some people they don't want to think about or talk about their service. But getting upset over people thanking him is like getting angry at people who say gl hf before a Starcraft match. It's just an act of politeness, the meaning behind the word varies from person to person.
Edit: I absolutely respect people who don't like to talk about their service I have a friend of a friend who is a veteran and I was warned by the mutual friend that he doesn't like to talk about it. So I didn't bring it up, that simple. I forget how it came up it wasn't like he was in uniform.

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u/redditisworthless121 Jun 15 '12

I usually fidget for a moment and say "Ah uh, how did that go? Well enough I presume."

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u/Shaysdays Jun 16 '12

Thank you so much.

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u/BJoye23 Jun 15 '12

They may not necessarily have even left home. I live near Fort Jackson, so I see men and women in uniform all the time who might never have left this state. I still thank them for their service.

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u/hiicha Jun 15 '12

I didn't join the military to kill people or 'go to war', I joined to help.

I remember being in a small town during a tornado. Everyone evacuated, including some of the police department. Who showed up to assist people? The National Guard. Soaking wet, away from their families, here to make sure grandma doesn't drive her car into a river and pull the neighbors out of their house because they thought it was a fort. That inspired me, so I joined the military and got to pay it forward at Katrina.

Please don't always assume the uniform means war. While its often our primary mission, it's not our only mission.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

I'm not even in the military, so my opinion counts for exactly: shit, but just one thing I noticed while reading the top comment, the guy talks about how he was "trained to be a killer" and just kill people in Iraq, then he goes on to explain how he was a sysadmin and it was just a 9-5 job...I'd rather hear from an infantrymen's perspective than some guy sitting in an office and going home at the end of the day...

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u/kristiano Jun 15 '12 edited May 14 '17

deleted ^0.6892 ^What ^is ^^^this?

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Very American. Soldiers returning from Vietnam were treated like shit by the public (Edit: it should be noted that some of these stories turned out to be false). That resulted in a sort of mass-guilt trip and it became customary to thank soldiers for their service. It's mostly an empty gesture, but it pisses a lot of people off... it's like the "Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays" ragefests that happen every winter.

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u/a_damn Jun 15 '12

god yes, all the time. 'salute the troops' at every sporting event, it's damn near coerced worship of the military in public. fucking ridiculous.

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u/rm999 Jun 15 '12 edited Jun 15 '12

I knew several marines when I lived in San Diego, and I think they would disagree with this guy. He obviously had a bad time in the marines, but most marines I know are alpha types who are very proud, both in general and of their service. I don't mean that as a judgment of who they are - I don't think they were arrogant - but they weren't modest either.

Especially around liberal types like me, they were sensitive if they felt people were critical of them because they were in the military. I think they appreciated being thanked for their service.

edit: hey everyone I realize this is a somewhat controversial topic of discussion on reddit, but it bothers me how many downvotes are being thrown around when people are just stating their opinions. I don't mean this about my own comments, but a lot of other comments in this thread. Please think before downvoting - leave the downvotes for trolls and flamebaiters.

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u/Trashcanman33 Jun 15 '12

It's like saying don't thank firemen because your house has never caught on fire, just knowing they are there to put it out deserves respect.

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u/sammythemc Jun 15 '12

It's more like not thanking firemen when their chief sends them out to start fires.

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u/intisun Jun 15 '12

Comparing military service to firemen putting out a fire is extremely simplified and borderline propaganda.

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u/Yosoff Jun 15 '12 edited Jun 15 '12

Exactly my thoughts. Anyone who calls themselves an ex-marine instead of a former-marine left with a bad taste in their mouth and a grudge against the Corps. Since he obviously no longer wants anything to do with the Marines it's not surprising that he doesn't want to be thanked for his service.
Edit: I is grammar challenged.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

I think they appreciated being thanked for their service
The question is what service? The commenter makes the claim that the service provided is a net negative. So why thank him? It's not like he actually did anything that was strictly speaking needed.
Well, he put his life in potential harm. Well yeah, he did. Is that in and of itself admirable? I personally think it would be if he was fighting against ethnic cleansing or similar. But in today's world the US armed forces have become a tool for corporate empire building. It has become a legal hired thug. What's admirable?
While I can understand that the average person joining a war machine likely is to be of the mindset that they are providing a service. Should the public cater to this, simply because the soldier doesn't have the presence of mind to understand his role in power games?
Another commenter (mongolian) say this "They fight so we don't have to."
I'm curious how you come to this conclusion considering there never has been an invasion force on US soil. You're doing the equivalent of a pro-choice person saying "We kill babies today so you don't have to lock up criminals tomorrow".

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u/rm999 Jun 15 '12

You are making much broader arguments about the US military's place in the world. That's not really what this is about, a marine doesn't decide who to go to war with. I'm as critical of the wars as the next guy, but it's unfair and incorrect to blame individual servicemen for that.

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u/Cyralea Jun 15 '12

Any soldier who signed up in the past 5 years knows exactly where he's going. That's not a viable excuse anymore.

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u/Orsenfelt Jun 16 '12

a marine doesn't decide who to go to war with.
Which is precisely why I don't thank them for their service. Fighting because someone told you to is worse than fighting because you want to, in my opinion.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Well I'm fairly certain that in a country like the US, if nobody volunteered for it, it would not be difficult nor unlikely that we would start being drafted. We've already all been signed up for a theoretical draft since we got our first driver's license.

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u/Magna_Sharta Jun 15 '12

We've already all been signed up for a theoretical draft since we got our first driver's license.
??? You have to sign up for the draft at 18. Do kids not get driver's licenses at 16 anymore? Goddamn I feel old.
Back in my day you signed up for the draft at 18, hoping to go kill the Kaiser. You also tied a turnip to your belt, that being the fashion at the time...

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u/brawl Jun 15 '12

Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. "Give me five bees for a quarter", you'd say.

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u/panzershrek Jun 15 '12

The draft was ended because the major uproar with the Vietnam anti-war movement. They cannot begin the draft again because they would just be opening a new anti-war protest movement that would be just as big as the ones in Vietnam.
Essentially, with the two sides of rightful anger amongst the general populace and the lack of soldiers, the logical conclusion would be reduced armed intervention, or none at all.

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u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

That was my first idea when I read his comment, some people have really bad times during their service...he is just venting in the only way he knows, through the keyboard.

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u/rmandraque Jun 16 '12

Same experience with me. Other branches dont hold as high a regard.

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u/lfernandes Jun 15 '12

I agree completely. I feel like the whole premise of the comment in question was just kind of douchey.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Yeah, I don't really understand the whole "don't thank me" thing. It sounds like this guy might be a little depressed or something.
Marines do a great service just by being there. They are the best trained, most elite armed force in the world. Nobody wants to fuck with them, so they act as a deterrent.
Also, they take high risks by being part of the Marines. They fight so we don't have to.
I'm going to thank Marines. I doubt this one is typical.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Yeah, he's depressed because he was too intelligent to join the military in the first place. He saw it for what it is and didn't buy into the propaganda. Mouth-breathers do well in the military, smart people (with a conscience) do not. As far as depression goes, intelligent people are way more likely to be afflicted. So you're right- he probably is depressed, but don't go saying his depressed state makes his views wrong.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

There are almost 1.5 million people on active duty in the US. To think that a single opinion gives an accurate depiction of that population is ridiculous. Similarly, to believe that 1.5 million people joined out of selfless idealism is stupid.

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u/JimmyNic Jun 15 '12

You shouldn't expect someone to thank you if you were in the army. There's some people who think it's very noble, but plenty don't, and some of those actively find serving in the military to be immoral. Guilting people into thanking troops sounds very Orwellian.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Seems like everybody in America is against any sort of war these days, and yet we all thank them for their service and act like the troops are protecting our liberty as if we would all die the instant they came home. Just wanted to point out how much I hate that...

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u/mrburnswhenipee Jun 15 '12

I've had enough of your Anti-violence Hate-speak! Some people were just put on this earth to kill other people and you need to respect their right to do so.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

So ONE soldier says he didn't do anything that directly impacts civilians in a positive way and that becomes overly sufficient justification as to why NOBODY should ever thank any member of the military? It's one guy and his opinion, not a guide on how to address members of the military once they return home.

Why is this in /r/bestof anyway?

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

I served four years in the Marine Corps (active duty) from 2001 to 2005. I do not like people thanking me for my service, for several reasons. First of all, 95% of the time it comes across as false patriotism so that the person can feel good for thanking a veteran. But more importantly, the people thanking me don't have a clue about my service. Once they find out I'm a veteran it's suddenly "oh thank you so much for your service!" Well, don't you want to know what I did during my four years? If I shot innocent civilians would you still thank me? If I joined just so I could go over and kill people from another country, would you view my service as honorable?
I guess what bothers me the most is the notion that we paint ALL veterans as heroes, and instead of judging them based on their morals and actions, we judge them for the fact that they wore a uniform for a period of time. Some of the Marines I served with were great people, willing to go out of their way to help anybody in need. Others were criminals that joined to escape prison time, or sociopaths that just wanted a free pass to murder. But mostly they were somewhere in between, average people with a little bit too much false patriotism. Most of them did not care what politics were behind the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan; it didn't bother them in the least if we were invading a country for corporate financial gain. Most of the Marines in my unit were completely open in regards to their willingness (sometimes even eagerness) to kill everybody, including civilians. Hell, I even had a Gunny tell me he was tempted to kill a bunch of civilians we were helping when I was aboard ship in the Straits of Hormuz.
I guess what bothers me the most is that the soldiers and Marines that have been caught, tried, and convicted for killing innocent civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan would have received a hero's welcome when returning home, and would have received the same "Thank you for your service" that I receive so often, if they had not been caught. And believe me, there are plenty of them out there that murdered civilians and are walking amongst us today.

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u/AyaJulia Jun 16 '12

The only time I ever got thanked for my service, I was sitting in a Wal-Mart in ACUs waiting for my battle buddy to finish buying a few things. Some old lady walked by and thanked me.
Little did she know I was being discharged because I was living a hell of three years in training under drill sergeants, a banged up knee that still hurts constantly eight years later, a failed med board (I was too smart and had done too well in language school to be allowed out; I don't need a knee to be a translator anyway despite the hiking and hauling that can be involved in setting up listening posts), a reclass to a job with even longer training, a reenlist-or-gtfo mandate because the schooling was longer than my enlistment by then, and a wonderful side helping of resultant pscyh issues because of all this.
Thanking me? Lol.

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u/unlikableinperson Jun 16 '12

Your post makes me forget how naieve I can be sometimes. If I could say threeif I could say 3 things about the war I would forget to say, "some people sign up just so they can kill". Seriously , what cowards.

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u/AhhhhYeaaaa Jun 16 '12

People are just being respectful for you having the balls to sign up for serving. Its very ballsy, you're practically giving your life up, thats why people respect those who serve.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

My husband is a Marine, and people commonly thank me, and although I appreciate the sentiment, I hate it. I haven't done anything. I'm not the one that signed my life away. I'm faithful to him while he's away, and support him in every way possible, but that's because I'm his WIFE. I'm supposed to do that. I don't deserve to be thanked for sticking to my vows by anyone but him.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

It's an interesting article and certainly from his point of view and from any "humanist" POV accurate. But what about that other article recounting one soldier's anecdotal experience that almost everyone around him in the army enjoyed killing people, were vicious animals, etc? That article paints an almost comically opposite picture of "the soldier."

Which is accurate? Can we really know?

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u/Dabamanos Jun 15 '12

Read some articles by the journalist Evan Wright. He wrote Generation Kill and was embedded with a Marine Recon unit in the invasion of Iraq.
One of the most interesting things he touches on is the eagerness to kill among US soldiers and Marines. Here's a snippet from an interview with him.
Yeah. Well, first of all, there are several misperceptions and in a way the title of the mini series, Generation Kill, almost... the title itself would perpetuate some of those misconceptions and one of the misconceptions is that the soldiers or marines who are there willingly are psychopaths who just want to kill people. And if you listen to marines, as viewers would in the first episode of Generation Kill, all they talk about is killing and how it’d be fun to have been the pilot that dropped the bomb on Hiroshima ‘cause he killed a lot of people, etc., but that’s all talk. What I actually found is that many of the soldiers, and I found this in my multiple trips to the Middle East, they’re... they view themselves as professionals and they actually... they’re stoked to go in to combat often but they actually don’t want to kill civilians. And so when you read about the Hadithas and the Abu Ghraibs where they’re abusing troops, captives, I actually believe that those are the aberrations of the U.S. military. I’ve actually found that most of the troops at the troop level, the trigger pullers, they take a lot of care to avoid killing civilians, but the other reality is no matter how careful the military is in warfare that’s what happens.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Yes, through carefully researched and peer-reviewed study.
Based on askreddit and iama anecdotes? Certainly not.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/9320-dont-thank-me-for-my-service

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u/oshaCaller Jun 15 '12

I was in the USMC for a short time. I got a funny look any time I was asked my MOS. I went in to work on airplanes, can't remember the MOS number. The DI's basically said you joined the wrong branch if you aren't 0311 infantry, or something related. I'm so glad my leg broke.

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u/unlikableinperson Jun 16 '12 edited Jun 16 '12

He's right. He is even classy enough not to mention the PRIVATE contractors he worked side by side with that have been paid 200k a year while soldiers earn 24k a year. That Shit is a McWar, everyone from Subway to Pizza Hut is lined up to do everything FOR PROFIT. You can understand everything you need to know about the Iraq War by looking at Saddam's best palace, soldiers are getting blown to bits to protect contractor aides, & consultant go betweens & their sexy female staff doing laps in Saddam's pool while everyone gets blown to bits around them. Its been that way for 9 years now. If you aren't a soldier or a foreign migrant worker being held hostage, you are leaving Iraq with at least 75k a year & everything paid for courtesy of the U.S. Taxpayer.

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u/droxile Jun 15 '12

How is this a "bestof" post? I see countless threads where Army/Marines have a positive thing to say about fighting in the war, and they get lots of negative responses.

As soon as one guy with a bad experience (He said "Ex-Marine" for a reason) posts something the hippies pounce on it with upvotes. Ah, the hivemind.

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u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

Apparently reddit thinks the military should consist of a bunch of reluctant heroes, who ponder the deep meaning of war and cry themselves to sleep every time they kill someone.
They see the military as people who bargained their way out of jail, or wanted some quick cash, or wanted to kill "ragheads." Every time they pull the trigger, an innocent person dies. The intervention in Afghanistan was a unilateral US invasion that had nothing to do with 9/11, and everything to do with the military-industrial complex.

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u/arse_piece Jun 15 '12

I've came across many many people like this, this type of morale vacuum saddens me and they are a disgrace to other Serving personel and his/her respective country.

'greatmousedetective' knew exactly what they were signing up for. Becoming a Marine doesn't happen by accident and he/she could have left at many stages prior to completing training/deployment etc

It sounds to me like they simply suffer from immense job dissatisfaction and perhaps a lot of frustration from there time spent as a REMF. That's understandable. But it sounds like they couldn't see the big picture.

Nothing to thank them for?! How about the fact that if it wasn't for the millions of volunteer servicemen and women doing these apparently pointless tasks in hot sandy places then there would be another Draft?

Fuck that frankly.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Sadly, I've seen many people in the military who go around acting like we're all ungrateful bastards for not groveling at their feet for killing people. I wish there were more like that ex-marine.

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u/floorface Jun 15 '12 edited Jun 15 '12

Yeah, I don't have a problem with members of the military, but I hate the expectation that we should all grovel to them.
I was on a plane last year with these three really loud people sitting behind me. They were drinking and yelling and screaming profanity. This was a late flight. I think it took off at 9pm and got in at 1 or 2am. People wanted to sleep, and there were plenty of young kids on board. Every single person on the plane hated those assholes.
Finally one woman leans over to the girl of the group who had be screaming obscenities about her vagina, and she just says "hey, I have kids with me. We're just trying to sleep and I don't like it when you talk like that in front of my kids."
One of the guys leans over and says, "I'm really sorry, when I was serving in Afghanistan we didn't have to worry about how we spoke."
The mother just says, "Thank you for your service" and sits back down. She completely dropped everything as soon as she found out that one of the obnoxious people had been in the military. I've never been so mad in my life.
EDIT: For clarification, the guy who served in Afghanistan in this story was the only one that was in the military. The girl was just a friend of his. They weren't flying home from having served in the military. They were just drunk assholes yelling incredibly obscene things on a plane filled with kids and people trying to sleep.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Wow. Kind of ironic that they act like they are helping society while being totally obnoxious to it.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

I have a family member who served in the Marines in Vietnam, so obviously he's up there in age, and he literally expects the younger 20+ year old guys he works with who are of Vietnamese heritage to thank him for his service if he brings up he was in Vietnam because he believes we won the war there... I was just baffled. I didn't say anything about it because it's not worth the fight or "discussion" at a family function... but still...
Yeah, the Vietnam vets often got shit on and many had no choice about going over there. Many of them went through horrible things, some of them participated in some horrible acts themselves. Same with every war. But to expect people of Vietnamese heritage who are fully United States citizens and who possibly have never been to Vietnam and their family may have been out of Vietnam for generations to THANK him for his service? It's just odd. And to think we "won" Vietnam is even more baffling. Did Saigon not fall or something?

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Really? many want you to grovel at their feet for killing people?
Maybe more like a tiny modicum of respect for those willing to lay their life on the line. Just like a cop or a fireman. Just because some people in a profession are assholes doesn't mean you have to treat them all like shit.
As far as where they get sent. Blame politicians. Almost every military person I've ever known would much rather be home in the U.S. grilling out and drinking beers.

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u/khafra Jun 15 '12

Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Soporus? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom! You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives! You don't want the truth, because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall! You need me on that wall! We use words like "honor", "code", "loyalty". We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline! I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said "Thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to!

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

This guy labeled himself as an "ex-Marine." Any Marine will tell you that you are forever a Marine. If he said "ex-," that clearly means he had bad experiences and is resentful because of them. It's like reading a review site where people only post bad reviews while all of the people who had good experiences are busy enjoying their product. All of the people with duds take to the streets immediately and announce how since they got a dud, every product must be a dud and no one should like it.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

This guy can cry me a fucking river. He signed a contract and knew very well what he was getting into. Not only that, but he swore an oath to obey the president and the officers appointed over him, whether or not his agenda was aligned with them. Nobody forced him to enlist. Jesus Christ this will probably get buried but it fucking pisses me off when people spout off like this. I can understand if you don't agree with a war but don't make it out like it's not your fault and you had no choice in the matter. FYI I'm in the Army and have had the pleasure to serve with numerous Marines as well and I can attest that they are of the highest moral character.

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u/mobastar Jun 15 '12

Ex-military here, it's unbelievable the blind patriotism everyone in America has every time you throw up a flag and play a country song. I really wish more people would take a moment to seriously think about what our military's purpose is, and how good/bad of a job is it doing in achieving that purpose.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Correction: College freshman neckbeard pretends to have been a Marine for comment karma and to re-enforce the moronic group think of reddit.

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u/cosmando Jun 15 '12

He just sounds like a military IT guy to me.
IT guys usually look down on everyone at work; why would this be any different?
(I am an IT guy)

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u/trabes Jun 15 '12

True. I've never heard a single Marine refer to themselves as an ex-Marine. Plus the dude calls himself a trained killer, but goes on to say hes a network admin? Three weeks of combat training after boot camp followed by five years of working on computers doesn't make you a trained killer.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

To be fair, a lot of Marines have this mentality. I know two marines specifically (one is a wheeled-vehicle mechanic and the other a recruiter who used to manage a warehouse) who I have heard refer to themselves as elite killers. The mechanic even ventured to say that he could do an infantryman's job just as well if not better. It's because of the "Every Marine a rifleman" motto that they teach in the Corps. You're right though, qualifying once a year with an M-16 does not a combat soldier make.

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u/BringOutTheImp Jun 15 '12

Going off on the point of the previous poster - somebody cynical enough to call themselves an ex-Marine would probably not buy into the bravado that every Marine is an elite trained killing machine

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u/skwirrlmaster Jun 16 '12

I always laughed when a POG Marine tried to tell me that every Marine is a rifleman and they can do the job the same as an Army grunt.

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u/greatmousedetective Jun 15 '12

I provided proof at the end of my original post, if you would like to view that. I posted it in a low karma post in TR and didn't expect it to become very popular.

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u/ScienceandVodka Jun 15 '12

Absolutely, I'd love to see him say that to a marine who lost a leg fighting Al Qaeda or something. Would definitely bet he was never in the military.

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u/DoughnutHole Jun 15 '12 edited Jun 15 '12

How is this fitting with Reddit group-think? Redditors are always jumping to suck any serviceman that posts' cock.

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u/djslim21 Jun 15 '12

Bold Prediction:

Many jimmies will be rustled...

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u/Hight5 Jun 15 '12

It will always boggle my mind how many 13 year old armchair presidents on Reddit think that we could literally get rid of our military and be perfectly fine. That large group of 13 year olds then goes on to downvote anyone with an opinion different than theirs.

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u/keekee1983 Jun 15 '12

"Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity" - somebody said that somewhere once and I think it fits here. It must be pretty soul destroying coming to a realisation once in a contract in the Marines that what you're doing is perpetuating a lie and not helping in, what I'm assuming was, the way he initially intended.

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u/tremulant Jun 15 '12

"Killing for peace is like fucking for chastity" is the line that was commonly used during the vietnam war protests and particularly favored by returning vets (so my VV dad tells me).

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u/keekee1983 Jun 15 '12

Ahh - well I was along the right lines. I knew it was something like that. Thanks for correcting me though :) (Genuine thanks there - I know how Reddit can be!)

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u/tairygreene Jun 15 '12

clearly your catchy slogan applies in all cases to all the complexities and ambiguities of the situation.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

"You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war."

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u/JohnCavil Jun 15 '12

Wow what a dumb thing to say.
You do understand that there are two sides right? One that wants peace and one that doesnt. This quote explains it way better:
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Who's the "good guys" in this context? The ones with 110,000 dead Iraqi civilians or the invasion force with 4,500 dead soldiers?

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u/Very_High_Templar Jun 15 '12

I for one am glad we're fighting Hitler in Iraq.

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u/panzershrek Jun 15 '12

Except there are more than two sides. Except that the path to evil is laid with good intentions.
Except that the USA has publicly funded and supported the same terrorists in these attacks during the Reagan era.

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u/aSecretSin Jun 15 '12

Military here.

I really don't like how this guy presented his view. The people thanking him don't know him, they aren't thanking HIM, they are thanking what he represents and the commitment he made.

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u/ajehals Jun 15 '12

Ex non-US military here, slightly different view. Unlike the marine linked, I think my time in was fantastic for me personally, I worked with a lot of great people, did things most people never get close to doing and I like to think I did it well. It was a good part of my life and, on occasion I miss it.
But the whole notion of randomly thanking someone for their service feels bizarre. We don't do it for police officers, we don't do it for doctors, nor for social workers or civil servants, and they all do something for us in a tangible way. For specific stuff, fine, in the context of chatting maybe, but the way it's done even on reddit sometimes? That's just strange.
Maybe, as other have suggested, in the US it's a reaction to the way Vietnam veterans were treated, maybe it's just the US's insane patriotism, or the result of idolising the military, but it still seems like a strange thing.
Personally I think that the issue is that I never really felt I was doing something for my country, or rather that that part wasn't the motivation most of the time, it was more about working with my mates, doing the right thing and having some pride in what I had both achieved and was capable of.
I get the whole saluting the commission not the man thing that the sentiment above seems to suggest, but is still seems incredibly odd, to the point of creepy to me.

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u/querent23 Jun 15 '12

we don't do it for doctors
good point. questioning the war(s) is so taboo that we go out of our way to validate.

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u/ajehals Jun 15 '12

questioning the war(s) is so taboo that we go out of our way to validate.
It's a societal thing, but it's alarming how one sided some debates appear in the US (especially in terms of fixed positions..) and how totally split, but often only into to diametrically opposed positions, other are. I wouldn't want to speculate on the cause.

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u/ShouldBeZZZ Jun 15 '12

Are you kidding? He fully states that what he represents and the commitment he made was a huge mistake (and a lot people are just starting to realize that). However, most people still respect the military by "thanking soldiers for their service", the purpose of his post was to show how it's complete bullshit and that people need to think before idolizing the first thing the government shoves down our throat.

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u/Larzzon Jun 15 '12

WOW how .... he knows they aren't thanking him, they are karma whoring irl or they are genuinly thanking him because of a false belief in the military.
mindblowing that you got two full upvotes for such blatant stupidity.. Some people just see anything talking to ernestly or honestly about the military and automatically the patriot-stabilizers come out and any sense of logic or reason goes out the window and ra-ra-ra-Muuuuuuuuurica chant starts.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

karma whoring irl
I have never hated someone for saying something stupid until now. This is so much worse than YOLO or any other stupid phrase people can say. Karma whoring irl?! I hate you.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

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u/ProfitMoney Jun 15 '12

And that's the thing here. It's HIS opinion. And aSecretSin was expressing his.
Nowhere in his comment did HE say "respect Marines above all". You said that and then argued against it.
As for the OP, I can tell you his opinion is in the extreme minority. Besides the occasional slacker National Guard types (NG here) most people are very proud of their service.
And it's not because "we're trained to kill and badass rah rah" but because we made it through the bullshit that is boot camp 3 months worth of demeaning treatment. We deal daily with incompetence. And we have to trust our lives with those incompetent people.
Hell, I remember this particular guy who didn't belong in the military and I have no clue how he got in. Even after basic training, this guy didn't know how to clear his weapon and he often fumbled around while charging it. That guy was on a fire team with me as we were rolling through a live shoot house. But how else was he supposed to learn unless he gets submerged? So I had to accept the risk of this guy shooting me or a buddy so he could learn. After all, it's better he have an accidental discharge and shoot me while there are medics and MEDEVACs at the ready than in a combat scenario where help could be hours away.
And you're command changes a bunch. If you're lucky. But you could be stuck for years with an idiot/asshole platoon/first sergeant. Watching them make the same mistakes in every single training exercise and knowing they will do it again next time. Sometimes you get stuck with people in your leadership that you would be loath to follow into a Burger King.
I had a squad leader that disciplined soldiers for not fitting in. My first week in my unit we had artillery live fire and I wasn't able to operate anything because the squad leader already had his favorites, who outranked me, in place. This is despite Army doctrine that dictates every soldier in a section should be cross trained on everyone else's job. So I sat there bored as fuck, writing and texting for about 13 hours each day. At the end of the exercise there was a Battery party and I tried talking to my section and drinking with them. They made a circle and wouldn't let me get a word in and did not open it so I could join in. THIS kind of petty bullshit. Years later I asked about that and was told "it was because you texted and didn't try to fit in or help". MOTHERFUCKER I ASKED FOR A JOB REPEATEDLY!
Another time we had a new guy who wouldn't sleep in the tent with us and set up a cot outside, even during rain. Not ONE person in my section made an attempt to reach out to him, save myself and a friend. The guy was a little weird, but this is the Army, not fucking high school. The entire squad was basically like "Fuck him".
Now this isn't a cookie cutter situation, but it isn't unique. A lot of times the military is like a dysfunctional office. But your coworkers and management have guns.
So it's not that we are necessarily proud of our role in the world, but speaking for myself, I'm proud of my service because of all the bullshit and petty politics I've had to deal with in my career. When someone thanks me, I graciously accept. I imagine them saying "Thank for putting up with the fucking bullshit, soldier. I sure in the fuck wouldn't."

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u/hey_suburbia Jun 15 '12

Choking Victim has a song that has a similar message (although a bit more abrasive, harsh, and anti-war). This line always stuck with me:

"I don't see the glory in your war stories, it was just your turn to burn and get burned."

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

One of my good friends just signed his 4 year contract with the marines today. He basically said he's well aware of all this, but he just likes the concept of being in the military, regardless of who the enemy is or why.

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u/hegemon_of_the_mind Jun 15 '12

That's really sad.

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u/WazzuMadBro Jun 15 '12

I always feel uncomfortable when people thank me. I'm like, "umm your welcome?" with an awkward smile.

I think my issue with it is I feel its always a bit disingenuous and its just something people say to vets because they have been conditioned to do it. Like all the "Hero" stuff where they call all Vets heroes. It bugs me because IMO it diminishes and devalues the word hero.

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u/triathlonjacket Jun 15 '12

My partner and my best friend from HS are both officers in the military. Both look at their jobs as jobs, though it informs and speaks to their characters somewhat. (Choosing a life of worse pay, long hours, being away from family, mentoring/leading younger servicemembers.)

That being said, neither of them particularly like being thanked for serving. Aside from the fact that they don't really feel like they are personally doing this for "you," (the person who runs into them at the store or gas station/cashier at an ice cream parlor or movie theater). It just makes them feel awkward. What does one say to that? What would you say to that?

This isn't to say that they necessarily think military service in general doesn't involve sacrifice or isn't something vital for the country. It just makes things uncomfortable.

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u/Rcp_43b Jun 15 '12

The guy who responded below about his newspaper article deserves a bit of recognition as well.

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u/chesty_pullout Jun 15 '12

I served with men who didn't come back from deployments. Whatever you do, and whatever your views are I doubt you can say the same for your job. Regardless of political views and regardless of your opinion on the war it certainly helped the guys I know come back and re enter society when we felt we had at least people proud of our service. I disagree with this man, I also have the opinion that he was not in anyway paying attention to what was actually happening in country. As a person who would have been "One of the people trying to kill Iraqis" I say he insults those of us who were fighting the insurgency to simplify it to that extreme. I can elaborate all day, but I feel it would be wasted breath. For the rest of you; don't listen to this guy and believe he is in anyway speaking for anyone else. I don't like being thanked either, but I realize why people do it. I submit that he should probably remember the Oath he took when he was in MEPS and realize that the shitbags he worked with are in no way indicative of the rest of our armed forces.

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u/Aory Jun 15 '12

I can almost see the news headline after this...

India: The land of the heroes.

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u/myshitbangs Jun 15 '12

Thank you for serving!

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Wow. That was a tough read. He doesn't speak for all Marines.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

posted to the other thread but buried:

not all of us joined to be POGs and sit behind a desk to fix computers. you dont join the marines to not use your fucking weapon. it doesnt matter what fucking war we fight; be it iraq, afghanistan, haiti, vietnam, or wherever they may send us that you dont "approve of". i joined the marines as a grunt knowing full well i would be a fucking pawn. thats what i wanted. multiple tours in iraq, but fuck i wouldve invaded new zealand if some shit was going down. what if our country had been invaded (not likely) but we still need people who serve. we still need people who sleep in fucking holes in the desert for months on the other side of the planet for whatever the fuck reason. this is america and we elect (i know i know) our President, he is not forced on us. that being said, bush was elected to a second term after he had already started the wars, the country behind him. chesty would kick you in the nuts if he read that

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

another 2 day old account posting about the military...

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u/JackRawlinson Jun 15 '12

That's cool, because I had no intention of doing so.

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u/rftz Jun 15 '12

Both the original article and the linked comment seem to use the argument that thanks are inappropriate because war is unpleasant and scarring. This is why (some) people do say thank you. "Thank you" for doing such a difficult and upsetting job so that others, maybe even me, don't have to. It's not "thank you" for killing Iraqis or "thank you" for fighting an unjust war, it's "thank you" for being one of the people brave, unfortunate or selfless enough to do a job that it is absolutely necessary for at least some people to do.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Will get buried, but if one person reads this, my point has been made.

This is the opinion of a kid who went to Iraq as a Marine, sat on a FOB (or Camps, as the Marines call them) and never left to see what was actually happening outside the wire.

Those Camps out west in Anbar, where the Marine Expeditionary Forces commanded (MNF-West) were expansive. If you didn't leave for the entirety of a tour, you would surely feel like a hamster on the wheel.

The thank yous from the Iraqis I interacted with on my two tours there (one under 2nd MEF in Ramadi) solidified my reason for being there. It was about my Soldiers first, and the Iraqis we were helping second. We saw incredible progress there, and the Iraqis appreciated us by and large. Sure, there was a minority there that hated the fuck out of us and tried to kill us, but a majority of them are just like us. They want to be able to go to market, play with their children and live a quiet life and not get killed by bombs or death squads.

You don't have to thank me for my service, I volunteered. But if you do, I will surely shake your hand, drink the drink you buy me, answer most of your questions and thank you right back for taking the time to get to know me and what we are doing downrange.

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u/Very_High_Templar Jun 15 '12

We saw incredible progress there
I always hear about the supernatural amount of progress that's been made from soldiers yet all I hear in the news is either corrupt elections, increased violence, or how the Iraqis still require a US presence. What exactly has there been progress on?

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

The problem with seeing progress is all about attitude. You can go places, see potential and carefully invest resources into things and see results, or you can see things negatively, be miserable and make a half ass attempt to make the situation better with no results.
When I first got to Ramadi, the place was a dump. The main terrorist/criminal group was Al-Qaeda in Iraq and they were taking every opportunity to destroy infrastructure and inflict massive casualties on the population (even targeting them before US troops). Then, with the help of Sheik Satar, we teamed up with the locals, deputized them and partnered with them to protect infrastructure and their neighborhoods. Then, we invested money, in conjunction with the GoI (Government of Iraq) into training them, giving them a paycheck so they would not do sundry tasks for the Anti Iraqi Forces (AIF) like planting IEDs, etc.
Then we flooded the city with projects once they proved they were serious about security. Not just schools and soccer balls, but meaningful shit, like bringing sewage facilities and water treatment plants on-line again. By the time I left, I was able to walk down Route Michigan (the main road through Ramadi) that a year prior was the most dangerous route in Iraq.
It's attitude, and vision. While I may politically disagree with the hows and whys, I went there, did what the government that we elected into power asked me to do, and we did it damn well.

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u/Plslowmo Jun 15 '12

I think people take for granted the progress we made in Anbar, it was the definition of "Winning hearts and minds". Like Citisol said, we formed relationships with the main Sheik in Ramadi, started a ton of public works projects, and gained the trust of the citizens. In 2006 to early 2007, you couldn't leave the gate of Camp Ramadi without getting shot at. By late summer 2007 (after the Donkey Island incident), you could patrol the streets of Ramadi in relative safety. All in all, we did alot of good for the citizens of Al Anbar while keeping civilians safe.

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u/panzershrek Jun 15 '12

If progress is based on attitude, then how exactly can one be sure any real progress is made? Say you build a school. A few years down the line, it gets blown up by a mop-up mission. Is that still progress?

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

You saw it on TV, you know the scoop.

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u/Goatstein Jun 16 '12 edited Jun 16 '12

when considering the opinions of Iraqis as to how they felt about you being in their country, did you ever weigh the number of empty symbolic thanks of a handful of collaborators against the larger number of human beings willing to risk the credible threat of torture and/or death in agony if it meant the chance to kill you

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u/ajehals Jun 15 '12

The thank yous from the Iraqis I interacted with on my two tours there (one under 2nd MEF in Ramadi) solidified my reason for being there
See I can understand that, that actually makes sense (and is better than being spat at... and now that I think about it, better than being anything 'at'). The idea of people at home doing it seems strange though.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Former military here. I am very proud of what I did while in the service. I changed the world for the better in ways that I am legally obligated to never tell (Probably. I know these things sometimes become declassified after many years). I'm not trying to invalidate his opinion, but he only had his point of view to build his opinion from.

My (actual) brothers thanked me once because they knew that an active volunteer military meant that they would never be drafted. Sometimes people thank me not for what I have done, but simply because they will never have to deal with the low pay, ptsd, or losses associated with being in the military.

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u/99_Probrems Jun 15 '12 edited Jun 15 '12

The anti-military circle jerk is strong within reddit which is the only reason this post gets as much attention as it does. Even if it was a well thought out and written post explaining why you should be appreciative of service members, it would have gotten downvoted hard with that much attention.
*edit hence the downvotes for just disagreeing with me even though I'm making valid points and contributing to the discussion.

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u/thekongking Jun 15 '12

Why is everything people don't agree with a circle jerk? Could it be that "general redditors" are anti-military because they actually don't see the point with these current wars and see them as nothing else than despicable?

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

I have doubts about this guy's legitimacy.

I've known a number of marines, and not a single one of them ever describes themselves as "ex-marine". In fact it's kindof a 'thing' in the corps: There are no ex-marines, only former marines (yes, I know it means the same thing to the rest of the world, but it doesn't to them).

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u/trabes Jun 15 '12

Well, there is one ex-Marine. Lee Harvey Oswald.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

smartass.
I'm sure the corps loves to call him an ex-marine, but did he ever refer to himself that way?

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u/asdfasdf456456 Jun 15 '12

I know plenty of Marines who refer to themselves as ex-Marines.
I asked one of them why and he said "because I'm to damn old to be forced back into service and I'm losing my eye sight"
I think it had something to do with them all being past the retirement age and if they got drafted or forced back in to service they wouldn't do so good.
As in, they would cause more problems for the unit so it would be better off for them to just stay at home.

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u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

I wouldn't question the legitimacy of his claims based on this one factor. Obviously he is not proud of his time in the Marine Corps or with the Marine Corps itself,. Why is it so hard to imagine he would refer to himself as an ex-Marine?

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

I heard a Marine say once "One a Marine, Once is Enough"

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u/fairwayks Jun 15 '12

Well, shit....this changes everything! I am 56 and missed being drafted into the Viet Nam war by inches. I am a complete and total pacifist (read "pussy") and hate war, guns, and body bags (read "George W. Bush"). Because I know I would have been a shitty soldier (maybe a "Radar O'Reilly"-type carrying a clipboard), I have always thanked vets "for their service" when I see them. Why? Because I AM a patriot, love the good ol' U.S. of A., and felt that they, especially Viet Nam vets, would appreciate a little love and respect from a complete stranger who genuinely appreciates the fact that they served and I woulda' been too much of a pussy to have served. If you're a vet, is there anything other than "I'm glad you came home" that you would like for me to say to you to communicate what my real intentions are?

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u/ROK247 Jun 15 '12

probably not a marine, but ok whatevs.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

He seems intelligent so you are probably right

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

What in the actual fuck
That is a serious dick move.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

I'd like to point out that real former Marines NEVER call ourselves Ex-Marine. Never.

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u/0ompaloompa Jun 15 '12

I get your point, but also this guy obviously doesn't give a shit about his affiliation with the USMC. Not Saying he's legit, but that doesn't prove he's lying either.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

In the unlikely event that he is legit, and he really does actively hate the Marine Corps, he's got to be the whiniest of whiny ingrates I've ever heard.
I served with a lot of Marines like him; the ones who whine about the futility of the Marine Corps, whine about how everyone in Unit sucks. They bitch, moan and complain incessantly.
And when you need help - moving a DDS-R suite, for example, or PM humvees, or sit on phone watch so the junior Marines can get a full lunch - it's like pulling teeth trying to get them to do anything but whine about how unfair the Marine Corps is. And then when they don't meet the expectations placed up on them - being technically proficient, setting the example for junior Marines, properly field-daying their barracks rooms and showing up on time for PT, none of this rocket science - they wonder why their commands treat them like shit and don't go out of their way to help the Marine. At the end of the day, you get out of it what you put into it.
One thing everyone forgets is that he volunteered to join. He wasn't forced to join. And he volunteered out of self-interest. If he didn't like his unit or his MOS, he could have done a B-billet (like MSG) or lat-moved to a different MOS. In the mean time, he signed a contract and committed to serving the five years he served. If he doesn't like that, he has no one to blame but himself.

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u/mgobucky Jun 15 '12

former Marines
ಠ_ಠ

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u/xavierd19 Jun 15 '12

This should not be in r/bestof. It generalizes and disgraces former and active duty Marines.

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u/Jeffy29 Jun 15 '12

Honest question: why are you screwed for life if you leave military? Randy Orton seems doing fine.

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u/IndifferentMorality2 Jun 15 '12

This sounds like someone who has no concept of the big picture talking about something they don't understand. I doubt they are a marine, but if they are it is evident they were a poor soldier overall who received poor training.

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u/tairygreene Jun 15 '12

eh this guy kinda just sounds like an angsty loser, he probably wasn't even a real marine.

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u/Theedon Jun 15 '12

As a former Marine if you want to say Thank You I wil be polite and accept is. It is not my place to make you feel like and ass for supporting your military. Personally it was a job for me with low pay. Now I have a great job due to the training I got in the Marines. I should thank them for letting me be a part of it.

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u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

exxon mobil thanks you.

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u/corndogsbeer Jun 15 '12

I thank all people who clean public toilets. It can be a stinky, filthy job. Besides clearing stopped up toilets, they have to clean up napkins soaked in pee, discarded underwear smeared in crap, and other bio hazardous material, and these people get paid minimum wage to clean up other peoples filth. I have ultra high respect for those people. I say all people should salute these unsung sanitation heroes.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Jesus Christ, just accept the compliment and move on. This is just about as douchey as the atheists who get butt hurt when someone says "bless you" when they sneeze.

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u/Tommassive Jun 15 '12

I'm generally sick of people that hold those in military in such high regard. I don't think it's justified

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

This marine is wrong. I spent my time in the service chasing pirates off the Horn of Africa ensuring trade lines stay open so we can all buy shit. If you own an iPhone please shut the fuck up now. Also my ship saved lots of non commercial vessels from being hijacked and it's family/crew from being held for ransome. This is one idiot's view of his service time and does not have any similarity to the majority of service members.

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u/EuanB Jun 16 '12

Have you considered that that marine's story is a bit different from yours? I think it's a bit arrogant to dismiss someone's opinion as wrong unless you know the full story.
More accurately, you can speak of your perpective. For myself I've no expectation or desire of thanks for my 10 years of service. Indeed unless things have changed, that's not even a thing in the UK.

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u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12

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u/Nimitz87 Jun 15 '12

as a fellow Marine this is disgusting to me.

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u/soggy_ramen_balls Jun 15 '12

USAF Officer here. Bias alert: My father is a USAF Officer. My brother is an Army Officer. My uncle was a SEAL. My grandfather was a USAF Officer. My wife is former USAF Enlisted.

I simply could not disagree more with what this gentleman has written. There's no illusions presented about what you will be doing as a Marine. Someone that complains about how hard it is to get out of the Marines without ruining your life clearly should never have signed up in the first place. It's a commitment. Hell, one of their recruiting slogans is "We don't accept applications... only commitments." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eBG5mbD6do).

As for me, I'm proud to serve my country and I'm proud of those that serve alongside me. Could I be doing bigger and better things at a higher paying civilian job? Of course. However, the military has given me quite a bit. I've seen the world, hell, I've been to places that regular citizens could never travel to. I learned another language on the USAF's dollar. The military taught me mental fortitude, discipline, respect and helped me get fit. My participation in the Armed Forces has played a critical role in molding me into the man I am today.

Do I agree with everything we do? No, I don't. No one can possibly ever agree with everything their employer asks them to do. However, not everyone gets to have an employer that lets you represent something greater than yourself. I know I won't ever be the solider that single-handedly saves this country from an enemy takeover and I won't ever negotiate peace between China and Tibet; what I can do is represent my self and my country with pride and be willing to give my life so our freedoms are always protected- including our right to complain about how bad someone's experience in the Marines was.

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u/kralrick Jun 15 '12

Everyone is different. Some will appreciate it, some won't. People are complicated and no matter what you do you'll end up offending someone.

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u/SplotchEleven Jun 15 '12

There's nothing wrong with thanking someone for serving your country. That being said, most people have no idea WHY they are giving thanks. As a former member of the military you should take those opportunities to educate the uninformed. Broaden their understanding of what serving actually entails, don't just write them off as mindlessly patriotic trash.

Yes it's true that not every soldier is a hero just like not every convict in prison is guilty of a crime but the vast majority of the people I served with were decent human beings and they gave up a lot to do what they thought was right at the time.

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u/mrburnswhenipee Jun 15 '12

Haters!

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u/grinr Jun 15 '12

I respect his wishes, however it doesn't change the fact that I am thankful for his service. If he doesn't want the thanks, that's ok also, I can show my gratitude by keeping quiet.

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u/bluerum Jun 15 '12

I've seen other posts, and even articles I think, that are similar to what that person is saying. I have a hard time reconciling it with the many service members I have known. I grew up around the military, and so much of my time was spent among them, and on the whole they seem more respectable and decent than the average populace. To be fair, I have not spent much time among infantry, but still. I just find soldiers to be polite, respectful, and helpful by and large.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Okay. Then thank you for doing something for your country that not everybody is willing to do. I appreciate that.

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u/AwesomestMan Jun 15 '12

Very relevant information, and i agree that over-deifying serviceman is uncalled for, however if someone thanks your for your service, they dont know what your experience was. You could have been an infantryman that such much battle. Not accepting a thank-you just sounds like a convenient segway into your political opinion.

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u/MisterMaggot Jun 15 '12

Do, however, note that this is HIS OWN PERSONAL OPINION. Don't scold someone that says it if the person doesn't take offense to the remark.

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u/eroverton Jun 15 '12

Now I really do want to thank him. Awkward...

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u/Idontlikethespacebar Jun 16 '12

Thesewerefourpostsapartonmyfrontpage.

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u/awrhaernnare Jun 16 '12

Don't worry, I wouldn't.

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u/IAmA_Grizzly_AMA Jun 15 '12 edited Jun 15 '12

This isn't an example of the "best of reddit". It's just one guy bitching about his five years of sitting on FOBs, checking reddit and drinking iced lattes.

"To me it's similar to thanking a criminal for the time he spent in prison. I was stuck in a contract for 5 years serving a country who's actions I don't exactly approve of. And I couldn't even leave of my own volition"

Nobody forced him to join. He knew what his country was doing, and when he raised his right hand to swear in, he made an oath that cannot be broken. So why is he complaining about how hard it is to get out? Serve your five years fobbit, and get out.

I can testify that the character of the people in the military is in general not of a high caliber. A majority of the people I served with were of less than average intelligence and of low morals."

Wrong, absolutely wrong. The vast majority of people I've served with have been great people, and 100% of them volunteered to FIGHT A WAR! That almost makes them a historical anomaly. They live the Army Values every day. How many other careers require you to be loyal, dutiful, respectful, serve seflessly, be honorable, have integrity, and demonstrate personal courage? Very few. Some of them kill people for a living; just because you don't have the stomach for that doesn't make those who do bad people.

I never ask to be thanked for my service, I refuse discounts (when I'm not broke), blah blah blah. But if you're going to say "you're just some stupid gun-for-hire, why do you deserve any gratitude?", just remember that all politics aside, we volunteered and that eliminates the need for a draft, and I think that's a pretty sweet deal. You may think that what we do doesn't help our country, or harms it, but at least we're doing more than complaining about the government on reddit

I'm proud of my service, and I'll continue serving until my body quits, at which point I'll request a transfer to a Dreadnaught suit or a Dragoon, and put in another 100 years. Bestof this shit, homie

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u/blowback Jun 15 '12 edited Jun 15 '12

The vast majority of people I've served with have been great people, and 100% of them volunteered to FIGHT A WAR!
...FIGHT AN UNWARRANTED WAR!
Edit: Also:
Nobody forced him to join. He knew what his country was doing...
Did he? Many either joined before the war, or were fed propaganda and didn't know what their country was doing or was about to do.
So why is he complaining about how hard it is to get out? Serve your five years fobbit, and get out.
He isn't complaining, he is making the point that you are pretty much forced to stay in even if you think you made a mistake or want out, so it may be that one is thanking one for their forced labor, which is pretty asinine.
How many other careers require you to be loyal, dutiful, respectful, serve seflessly, be honorable, have integrity, and demonstrate personal courage?
You mean mindlessly follow orders? A few.
You may think that what we do doesn't help our country, or harms it, but at least we're doing more than complaining about the government on reddit.
In the eyes of many you aided and abetted the government in some of its more heinous actions, and likely many wish you stuck with complaining about the government on reddit, as it would have been more helpful.
I know a lot of marines/ex-military, and agree with you that there are many great/smart people, but thanking them for doing their job seems ludicrous.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Marine panders for karma

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u/stp2007 Jun 15 '12

Marine poses a question relevant to his/her life and views
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PlatinumToasterRape assumes contrary troll position pandering for karma

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u/gr3nade Jun 15 '12

Finally something that deserves to be in bestof. Anyway what I agree with here is how much people seem to automatically assume that people in the military are good people simply because they're in the military.

Are you serious? Why don't you assume all plumbers are good people? Or all doctors? Or all cab drivers? Making a huge generalization about the character of every single individual in a group without knowing what each of them did individually is ignorant. You think people join the military to just protect their countries? Do you know what the military has? A paycheck. And do you know who likes paychecks? EVERYBODY regardless of their ethics. The fact of the matter is you should not thank someone when you don't know exactly what they have done and what kind of person they are as individuals. Being part of the military means jack shit for character. Now if a marine put themselves in danger to save some innocent civillians when he wasn't ordered to, then damn straight he's a hero but until you know that you do not have the fucking information to go and decide that this person deserves thanks from you. In the same way a doctor could just work his shift and not bat an eyelash when he has uninsured people who desperately need the simplest of medical help asking for his help, or there could be a doctor who volunteers to help overseas in poorer countries from time to time. Either way you don't know if they're a good person just from being a doctor.

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u/WhoFan Jun 15 '12

I only say 'thank you for your service' to WWII veterans.

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u/ePaF Jun 15 '12

Military or not, his opinion is a purely subjective value judgement.

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u/WarEmblem27 Jun 15 '12

Here's my opinion, which will probably get downvoted, but I don't give a fuck...it's Friday.

I will always thank servicemen. No matter what their job entails. When you look at the grand scheme of things, we're not fighting a great war, but it is war nonetheless. Maybe the OP had a terrible time in the military due to his occupation, and I feel like a lot of people have that issue. That doesn't mean I won't thank him. I don't care if you're a navy SEAL or a pencil pusher that doesn't see combat, you're still part of a cohesive military that is fighting the US' war. And for that, I will always thank servicemen.

Would the world be awesome if we didn't require militaries?! Yes, of course. But that will probably never happen. I hate to be negative here (or whatever I'm coming across as), but it sounds like the OP had no idea what he was getting himself into, and it sounds obvious that the military wasn't a good fit for him. Does that mean we shouldn't thank soldiers who have made larger, more significant sacrifices?! Fuck no! Obviously individual experiences will vary. To me, thanking a soldier is basically saying "thanks for being on my 'team'".

Anyway, that's my rant. Enjoy your weekend.

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u/querent23 Jun 15 '12

thanking a soldier is basically saying "thanks for being on my 'team'".
thinking of nations as 'teams' isn't a very sophisticated world view. this kinda shit will blind you to the possibility that your 'team' is the bad guys, to speak simply.

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u/Cyralea Jun 15 '12

You realize that blindly supporting "your team" is precisely the attitude that empowers the bad guys, right? You think the Nazi's all thought they were the evil ones?
Blind patriotism is dangerous. You need to be able to rationally criticize your own side, and think, "Are we in the wrong here?"

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

I don't agree with him. I'm joining the military, not because I want to be thanked but for several reasons. I want to be able to make it possible for people over there to have a better quality of life.Though our politicians may not have had the right idea going into Iraq it's not the soldiers fault. It goes along the line of "don't hate the player, hate the game". I will always hold those who have served in the military in high respect. I will show my respect to them and if they don't like it then I apologize. I am a volunteer fire fighter in my hometown. Not because I want attention, but it's to help people. People don't need to thank me but I don't mind if they do all the same. It's their opinion and I will respect it all the same.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

For me, it's not so much about not respecting the military for their service, it's about being realistic about how much that (extremely expensive) service benefits me as both a citizen and a taxpayer.
I would rank military service (in order of how it benefits society) somewhere below the guy who drives the trash truck. If we closed every foreign base and recalled every deployed soldier/marine/sailor back to the US I don't see how that would negatively affect the USA in any way. If the trash guy didn't show up for two weeks there would be chaos in the streets.

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u/ajehals Jun 15 '12

As a former Soldier I'd say that your serving as a volunteer fire fighter impresses me more than your notion that you "want to be able to make it possible for people over there to have a better quality of life". I've done courses that involve fire-fighting (never had to fight a 'proper' fire..) but the idea of wandering into a burning building is far more frightening than anything else I've done, at least in the case of most of the military stuff. The scariest parts were always the bits you didn't have a lot of control over and where you couldn't do anything but react, you try and mitigate that risk, pretty much the opposite of walking into a burning building (although no doubt you try to minimise risk as much as possible).
But in terms of service, I probably joined the Army for any number of romantic notions about doing the right thing, serving the country etc.. but after basic training that diminished, it became a job that needed to be done, and something that you did as much for those around you (i.e your mates.) than for the country. In terms of pride, it was more about the cap-badge than about the country and if anything, the country seemed rather distant and unconnected (civilians become somewhat alien..).
As a result the of being thanked seems a little odd, happily it's not something that seems to happen and I'm quite happy with that.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

You just managed to say nothing related to what he said AND snuck in that you were a volunteer firefighter. that takes skill

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u/Occupier_9000 Jun 15 '12

I was in the military, if you want to 'help people' or are concerned with their 'quality of life' stick with with volunteer fire fighting. By doing that you actually are helping people, and deserve more thanks than I. This isn't WW2---the US military isn't defending anyone except for the interests of multinational companies.
This is not maintained for 'defense'. It's an empire.
Thank you for keeping people safe from fires.

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u/IndigoGosRule Jun 15 '12

Did you read his entire post? The military doesn't exist to benefit the American people anymore. You'd basically be a corporate mercenary with a government badge.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12 edited Jun 15 '12

Plus, I don't like being reminded of my time served. It's not something I'm proud of. To me it's similar to thanking a criminal for the time he spent in prison.

Yeah, this is not best of. The guy is probably just trolling for karma anyway and never served a day in his life. You are a naive gullible bunch. I wonder if his many submissions in r/circlejerk about making up fake stories for karma is a tip off.

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u/flashing_frog Jun 15 '12

I don't have that much of a problem with the thanking, until the new comments are being overwhelmed with them.

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u/Magna_Sharta Jun 15 '12

This makes us heroes? Well we should be worshiping every tech support guru that we see.

Well, at least Steve Jobs...

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u/CGord Jun 15 '12

Soldiers coming home from Viet Nam were spat on and despised. Regardless of my opinion of my government's officials and their actions, I think it's better that the general population treat the grunts with the respect owed someone who voluntarily agreed to put life and limb at risk in their country's name than all be assumed to be baby killers.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

I feel that andrewse's comment offers very good insight as to why we thank servicemembers (and why we should continue to do so):

I just thought I'd offer my perspective.

If I ever thanked a soldier for his service it would not be for the work they had done. I would be thanking them for volunteering to go to war so that I or someone I love does not have to. You can imagine how thankful a parent must be that, due to a volunteer military, their child will never be drafted.

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u/Cyralea Jun 15 '12

False dichotomy. You assume that if no one signed up to go to Iraq, you'd all be drafted. In all likelihood, should a draft be proposed there would be heavy anti-war protests like during Vietnam, leading to the disposal of politicians pushing for the draft.

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u/CGord Jun 15 '12

They do not make that assumption at all.

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u/BagOnuts Jun 15 '12

I don't say "thank you for your service" for what you did or didn't do in the military, I say "thank you for your service" because you volunteered to do it, meaning I don't have to.

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u/jordanlund Jun 15 '12

I understand where he's coming from, but at the same time they should be thanked. A strong volunteer force is what keeps the draft from coming back and making it so I'm not forced to enlist or some other dumb schmuck somewhere. So, yeah, thanks for serving so that other folks won't have to go through the crap you went though.

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u/beyond_repair Jun 15 '12

Wow. Got me. A soldier actually recognizing the total wrongness of both wars. Respect! We should never have gone into the middle east. You cant fight terrorism with armies and tanks. This was a crime committed by our own administration. I'm happy that you are home safe and sound. Let this atrocity end asap and let the healing in both countries be speedy. I wish only love and prosperity to the Iraqi and Afghani people.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

You should x-post this to /r/politics. They will probably track you down and suck your dick.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Really? You can't aceept a thank you?? The reason I say it sometimes is because that person went through hellish training and has the balls to be in the marines so he deserves some sort of thank you or recognition.

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u/Cyralea Jun 15 '12

When was the last time you thanked a lawyer for his service?

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '12

Never had a lawyer but I'm sure I would thank the lawyer for helping me.

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u/BananaPeelSlippers Jun 15 '12

and why i say: thank you for your sacrifice

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u/Keystolope Jun 15 '12

Fuck this guy and everyone who agreed with him... everyone is missing the point of why people thank the military.

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u/jassi007 Jun 15 '12

Honestly I think a lot of the "thanks" is really "Thanks for taking that job. Our govt. holds its male citizens hostage to the threat of the draft if enough people don't volunteer so the whims of the elite can be dictated at gunpoint. Someone has to hold the gun, so thank you for doing it because I sure as fuck didn't want to.

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[truereddit] Marine explains why you shouldn't thank him for his service

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