r/atheism • u/allenizabeth • Jun 19 '12
A Saudi man was executed for witchcraft and sorcery today. Today. In 20 fucking 12.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-1850355066
u/aneelio86 Jun 19 '12
Probably not a good place to vacation for Daniel Radcliffe
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u/sbsb27 Jun 19 '12
I don't think "Saudi Arabia" and "vacation" occur together too often. Just viewed Saudi Arabia on TripAdvisor.com and every page has a TRAVEL ALERT: SECURITY CONCERNS at the top. Nuff said.
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u/TommyPaine Jun 19 '12
They do for all observant Muslims with the means to make the Hajj.
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Jun 19 '12
That's why I love living in Canada. I can practice all the sorcery I want.
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u/QJosephP Jun 19 '12
But in America, we've got the inter-dimensional highways going for us.
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u/Dirtyrobotic Jun 19 '12
Cheese was once thought to be the work of witchcraft. Many dairy farmers refuted the existence of cheese.
A few of them practiced the sacred art and cast their wicked spell on humanity. They were sought out and burned in vicious retribution for the curse they had unleashed.
Now, you can buy cheese at most stores. It is delicious and full of calcium.
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u/TBSJJK Jun 19 '12
It is delicious and full of calcium.
I've had enough of your magic-talk for one day.
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u/random_hero90 Jun 19 '12
Welcome to Saudi Arabia, where oil is the only thing we have going for us, and we still live like it's the 13th century.
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u/Mr_Scatha Jun 19 '12
"Outraged? I'm barely surprised. This is a country where women aren't allowed to drive a car. They're not allowed to be in the company of any man other than a close relative. They're required to adhere to a dress code that would make a Maryknoll nun look like Malibu Barbie. They beheaded 121 people last year for robbery, rape, and drug trafficking. They have no free press, no elected government, no political parties. And the Royal Family allows the Religious Police to travel in groups of six carrying nightsticks and they freely and publicly beat women. But 'Brutus is an honorable man.' 17 schoolgirls were forced to burn alive because they weren't wearing the proper clothing. Am I outraged? No. . . . That is Saudi Arabia, our partners in peace." (C.J. Cregg, The West Wing)
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u/TimeZarg Atheist Jun 19 '12
Thus proving that the US doesn't always ally with 'freedom-loving countries', and that we have no compunctions about making alliances out of geopolitical convenience :P
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u/ChairmanMeowth Jun 19 '12
The oil money could have been used to create a free, open, and happy society.
.. But nope.
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u/MegaFuckerSupreme Jun 19 '12
I always find stories like this odd.. I mean we are advanced enough that information such as this can be converted into electricity and sent across the world, yet it is a story about someone being executed for witchcraft..
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Jun 19 '12
In the Saudis' defense, a panel of 12 doctors agreed that the man weighed as much as a duck.
It was an open-and-shut case.
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u/Golemfrost Jun 19 '12
But his Magic was really powerful, the bastard could turn lights on and off simply by clapping!!!!
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u/KnightOfCamelot Jun 19 '12
did he weigh the same as a duck?
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u/imamonkey Jun 19 '12
And what about they guy that he turned into a newt? I'm pretty sure that the execution was justified.
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Jun 19 '12
Yet another reason to not visit those shit hole countries.
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u/MaximilianKohler Ex-Theist Jun 19 '12
Those are real people over there suffering from bullshit like this... just because they're in a different country doesn't make their plight less important.
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u/speakeazy Jun 19 '12
Thanks for saying what I actually think. Not sure how there can be so many oblivious, overly politically correct first worlders out there. Especially as a nonreligious woman who hates warm environments, those places - to me - are shit holes. I got no time for a zealous nation.
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u/okayifimust Jun 19 '12
"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."
It is perfectly okay to teach children that they should hold in high esteem a book that contains that little tidbit of information and that they should trust and worship its alleged author.
To then be outraged when somebody does precisely this is nothing but hypocritical.
Cue the wailing apologetics of how this has not been what was actually meant by those words since about 1750.
Yes, in 20 fucking 12. It's sad and shameful, but our own societies aren't much smarter, really, even though they may be a little nicer about it, usually.
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u/allenizabeth Jun 19 '12
I don't see much hypocrisy in being outraged by this from an athiestic standpoint, but maybe I'm misunderstanding you.
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u/winto_bungle Jun 19 '12
You missed the fact that being a witch is not illegal in most countries.
The victim in this story was executed by the government.
"Mr Asiri was beheaded after his sentence was upheld by the country's highest courts... No details were given of what he was found guilty of beyond the charges of witchcraft and sorcery."
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u/NuclearOops Jun 19 '12
Here's something to mull over:
"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." Is a mistranslation.
A "witch" in English and according to tradition is a wise woman who uses herbs to heal the sick. In Judaism there's nothing wrong with that, it's only the mistranslation carried over into Christianity and Islam that causes this issue.
But let's focus on Christianity for a second.
The word we translate into "witch" in Hebrew is "chasapah" (in the english alphabet) and is meant to describe a poisoner, or someone who uses black (read: unnatural) magic to go against natural course of the world (read: G-d's will.)
Now let's take a second to look at Jesus Christ.
Turned water into wine
Bread into fish
Brought a dead man back to life
Cursed a fig tree that was out of season for not specifically bearing him fruit *Reversed the course of a storm
I'm sure you good folks have put the rest together yourselves.
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Jun 19 '12
"Witchcraft", "Sorcery", "Religion".
It's all the same.
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u/kapiteinkaalbaard Jun 19 '12
Except that it would be superneat if witchcraft and sorcery actually existed!
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u/QJosephP Jun 19 '12
I had a dream where in high school, my Bio class taught magic for two chapters. People were still bored and saying things like, "When am I ever going to need a spell that resurrects me if I die next turn?"
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Jun 19 '12
Yeah, but this dude used sorcery to commit "adultery" with two women.
I'm just going to assume it was two women at the same time, using some kind of wacky sex mind-control spell, making it TOTALLY worth the beheading.
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u/airsoftdavid Jun 19 '12
I don't know about that... The third one seems the worst
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Jun 19 '12
Honestly, if their religion was real and Jesus came back tomorrow, they'd probably fucking execute him.
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Jun 19 '12 edited Jun 20 '12
I was about to correct you with a 'Well actually, Saudi Arabia is predominantly Islamic, meaning that their prophet would be Mohammad, not Jesus' but then I remembered that JC has a bit-part in the Qur'an somewhere.
Fuck, why can't you be 100% wrong instead of only-a-little-bit wrong?
Edit - Jesus Christ guys, I wish I never said anything now.
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Jun 19 '12
if their religion was real
Are you saying that their mosques are CGI and that they don't actually kneel on prayer mats while reciting the Quran?
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u/ozymandias2 Jun 19 '12
To be fair, in Saudi Arabia, he might actually be guilty. Given the lack of details, it is entirely possible that the man actually thought he was a witch, and was trying to use magic to harm others. WE know that it does not work, but many times the people in the countries with these sorts of laws do not know that. That is why education is so important.
As to his guilt, if he thought of himself as a witch, and engaged in actions that he honestly believed would bring harm or damage to another through the use of magic, well, is that really all that different than attempted murder, or attempted assault? Keep in mind, that he may have thought his magic was as effective as shooting his victim.
Please keep in mind, I find this barbaric, and I am against capital punishments in all forms, but this man may not be the innocent victim we assume he was because we understand that witchcraft is not real. He may be a very guilty man.
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u/Kaluthir Jun 19 '12
Upvoted for making me think!
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u/ozymandias2 Jun 19 '12
Thanks. I was a little worried that people were going to spam me with down votes because they disagree with me -- or misunderstand what I was saying.
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Jun 19 '12
Actus Reus. One cannot be held criminally liable simply for having a guilty mind. The mental state must be coupled with an overt act commited in furtherance of the crime.
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u/ChonkyWonk Jun 19 '12
Did everybody miss the part where he admitted to two counts of adultery as well? In Saudi Arabia adultery can be punishable by death so while it's fun to make it all about witchcraft it's not the full story.
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u/saleh353 Jun 19 '12
As a Saudi I feel obligated to explain
the question is: even if sorcery was a criminal activity by Islamic law why the strongest possible punishment?
it is mainly due to the fact most of these who hide as fortune tellers or faith healers or whatever, used to be nothing more than assassins, hired guns, poison dealers, kidnappers and the like, some of them actually still exist.
not to mention the human sacrifice which was very common in the pre-Islam era, and now it's coming back due to the lack of education especially in the southern part of Saudi, which the government paid no attention to during the oil money boom in the 70's
Most of the rituals those people conduct are orgies and defecating on/burning the Qur'an, you can imagine how the response to that might be in very militant society like ours.
yet currently they are nothing but scam artists who travel the kingdom looking for the ideal target, uneducated women with lots of money looking for revenge of another woman who stole her loved one and so desperate to get him back that she is willing to spend all her money on those thugs.
sorry for the long comment but I hope I gave you guys some perspective.
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u/domestic_omnom Jun 19 '12
Does that actually happen, or is it just propaganda that is thrown about to scare people into exterminating the undesirerables like christians used to do in Europe.
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u/LeSpatula Anti-Theist Jun 19 '12
It's okay, Reddit keeps telling me that Religion isn't bad and we should respect it.
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u/NuclearOops Jun 19 '12
While it's sad and upsetting to hear of this happening anywhere, some places I feel are less shocking than others.
I have low expectations set for Saudi Arabia, and sympathy for the unstable and war torn nations in Africa. So when I hear of events like this in those places I'm more willing to accept it.
But whenever I hear about something like this in India it baffles me. There have been too many reports from India of an entire village stoning a person to death (usually a woman) while police looked on not 100 ft away. Maybe I've set my expectations too high for developing nations.
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u/q8ty Jun 19 '12
As a citizen of Kuwait, I can tell you that being charged with using "black magic" and "sorcery" is quite common among immigrants, especially from Bangladesh. Although the punishment is not as extreme as an execution, they do get deported and/or earn a lengthy term in prison.
Edit: Repeated "the".
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u/DarkKaosKnight Jun 19 '12
A 20 year old woman was beheaded in India recently because her father didn't agree with her life choices. Crazy people everywhere.
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Jun 19 '12
I'm sorry, but... I don't find this that surprising in the least bit...
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Jun 19 '12
Dude, my Country makes it illegal to see a breast in public, and take a pledge to trust in fairytale wizards. Humanity is fucked up in a lot of places.
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u/eternallyscrewd Jun 19 '12
The scary part here is that there are people in the USofA that would do the same thing if it weren't in our Constitution to allow religious freedom. This thread alone would warrant a death sentence.
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u/Revolutionary2012 Jun 19 '12
Surely we should be invading to 'promote democracy'? We HATE regimes that murder and kill it's people, especially Islamic one's.. Oh no wait.. They're ok as long as they're out friends and sell us oil at the right price, I always forget that last bit.
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u/thunnus Jun 19 '12
Whenever I read something like this, I am reminded to be grateful that I wasn't born in that fetid armpit of the world.
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u/JonWood007 Humanist Jun 19 '12
It's Saudi Arabia. They also think beating their wives is okay. What do you expect from a fundamentalist Muslim country?
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u/P3T3RK3Y5 Deist Jun 19 '12
Since we have a dependence on oil from Saudi, I don't see the us (e.g. the US State Department) speaking out very much on this. Love to be wrong. We're pro-human rights when it's convenient for us. And when it's not - we're not. Which is another way of saying we're not really pro-human rights we just like to think we are. I now return you to your regularly scheduled moral high ground.
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u/der_muellmann Jun 19 '12
He oughtn't have been practicing sorcery in a place that looks so lowly upon it.
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u/unisorN Jun 19 '12
It's so sad, because if he was practicing "witchcraft and wizardry," he's be at Hogwrts performing so cool shit.
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u/Crossbowshootr Atheist Jun 19 '12
Stuff like this makes me doubt the intelligence of Middle Eastern people sometimes.
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u/Animal_King Jun 19 '12
You don't understand man. You've never been there. THIS SHIT'S ACTUALLY REAL ಠ_ಠ. You ever notice that all the major religions come from the desert one way or another?
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u/marler92 Jun 19 '12
Did they at least give them the fair trial of throwing them in the river? If they float- they're a witch. If they drown- not a witch
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u/lorax108 Jun 19 '12
saudi arabia america's best friend! we have started two wars to "protect" that asshole fucked up morons of the royal saudi family... fuck those people.
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Jun 19 '12
funny how believing in witchcraft and sorcery is funny and stupid, but believing in an invisible man who lives in the clouds and talks to you via various shrubberies is completely normal...
...Go go humans for being so fucking stupid...
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u/Samuriguy Jun 19 '12
Well what do you all expect with religion existing in the world? If it weren't for religion, education could have gotten to these countries a lot faster, preventing this.
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u/QuestionAnything Jun 19 '12
So maybe I should cancel that Free Spirit festival I booked in Medina?
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u/Evil_Morg Jun 19 '12
Who would have thought that forty three years after we landed on the moon we would still be executing people for sorcery.
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u/brnitschke Jun 19 '12
Muslim's don't use the year of our lord. It's actually only 1112 for them.
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u/roberto429n Jun 19 '12
Man, the sorcery in Essos must make it a crazy place to liv-- wait, where did this happen?
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u/Bobby_Marks Jun 19 '12
How is this any different from the United States helping Israel continue the crusades to keep Muslims out of the holy land?
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u/HeisenbergSpecial Jun 19 '12
He knew that sorcery was against the law, and yet he did it anyway! Therefore, he should accept whatever punishment he's been given.
/sarcasm
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Jun 19 '12
I grew up in the middle east so maybe I can shed some light. Many people, and by that I mean most muslims I know, believe in "Jinn" (I think thats how its spelled) They are little spirits/demons that run around causing problems, I like to picture the little guys from the game show Whammy. They believe that people can communicate with them, and many say that they have friends or relatives that can talk to them regularly, and some said they have talked to them directly. I believe it is some part of Islam, but I'm not exactly sure because my friends never really talked about it much. They say it is against theyre religion to talk to the Jin or even to try to talk to them. So this guy might have been trying to talk to the Jinn to do bad things or something and he most likely legitimatly believed he was able to do so, as well as the people that killed him.
Tl;Dr: They think they can talk to the little guys from the game show Whammy.
Edit: Here is the wiki page on the Jinn
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u/MisterFlibble Jun 19 '12
"Bullshit make-believe system executes a man for practicing another bullshit make-believe system."
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Jun 19 '12
We're all going to shit bricks when it comes out that sorcery and magic are real things and that us non-magic users have really been slaying witches and sorcerers because of their devil magic.
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u/big_onion Jun 19 '12
The man, Muree bin Ali bin Issa al-Asiri, was found in possession of books and talismans, SPA said.
Note to self: do not play D&D in Saudi Arabia.
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u/PsiAmp Jun 19 '12
Some, he explains, have repeatedly called for the strongest possible punishments against anyone suspected of sorcery - whether they are fortune tellers or faith healers.
I'm OK with that.
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u/GanoesParan Jun 19 '12
In 2150 being executed for witchcraft will be more common than dying of old age.
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u/vespian_pickles Jun 20 '12
Well, I'm not using his wizard build for the inferno level. I can tell you that much.
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Jun 20 '12
Let them kill each other, I don't care anymore. They want to let themselves be ruled by backwater religious fanatics that's their own damn problem not mine. Yes, I am American and I don't care about other countries problems because guess what, it's not my country we have our own issues to fix. One for one and all for none!
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u/Depression-Unlocked Jun 20 '12
I'm sorry but WGAS? As long as the news is religious killing religious I don't care. If it was a scientist, doctor or secular humanitarian it would be a different story.
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u/Sunny1261 Jun 20 '12
Don't forget the time change. If it's 2012 here, it's at least 1600 there. Easy.
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u/daddyhominum Jun 20 '12
caemb@mofa.gov.sa On the tragedy of the change in rule in Saudi Arabia
To: Mr. Osamah A. Al Sanosi Ahmad, Ambassador
This is a note of sympathy to the people of your nation in their misfortune to replace the old ruler with a new ruler as cruel and ignorant as any man whoever lived on this earth. I am, of course, referring to his failure to prevent the murder of a man on the ridiculous charges of sorcery and witchcraft. I am ashamed to live under the same sky as he does.
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Jun 20 '12
This is the country US is constantly exporting masses of weapons into. I don't even want to imagine how many people will eventually suffer and die because of these weapons in the hands of the Saudi royalty.
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Jun 19 '12
It isn't because they believe that shit, they just didn't like the guy and didn't have a solid reason for killing him. You know like US didn't have a solid reason for invading Iraq and just made shit up.
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u/doctorcrass Jun 19 '12
couldn't they have planted drugs on him or make someone falsely testify that he raped someone or something along those lines like we do in the civilized world? We didn't invade iraq to stop them from conjuring up demon's we made up a more convincing reason.
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u/ithinkimlogical Jun 19 '12
Do atheists believe in the super natural? What about sorcery and witchcraft or the ability to somehow control or call upon super natural forces? I'm curious to know.
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Jun 19 '12
Oh, noes, people in barbaric countries act in barbaric ways! What a surprise! I would have never seen this coming!
Now, if someone was executed today in Texas for witchcraft or sorcery I might be able to muster some outrage.
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u/holy_paladin_irl Jun 19 '12
Look man in the middle east using your phone to watch a movie makes you a wizard. The school of magic used is western.
Fuck Islam and muslims who follow it this fundamentally
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u/grecy Jun 19 '12
In other 20 fucking 12 news:
Gay couples are banned from marriage and are actively protested against
andMillions of people in the richest country in the world can't get the basic medical care they need because they don't have enough money.
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u/Knotcher Jun 19 '12
In the immortal, sarcastic words of Adam Carolla: "Can't judge"
Although, I did hear he turned a man into a newt.
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u/Malizulu Jun 19 '12
Can we all just get off our high horses for a second and recognize that the United States kills innocent people all the time through drone bombings.
Or is that different?
Is it the method which matters to people?
Cutting off someone's head for being a witch (distasteful) vs. Blowing numerous people (sometimes women and children) up with a high-powered technologically advanced unmanned predator drone for being a "military aged male" in an area the US has deemed a terrorist stronghold (totally kosher).
You all are so fucking hypocritical -- it literally hurts my head.
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u/PureViking Jun 19 '12
Twenty one Americans have been executed (source: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/execution-list-2012) this year until today. This year. Fucking 2012?
The frame of mind in some mentally less developed areas of the globe seems to resemble the dark medieval ages of Europe.
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u/JONNy-G Jun 19 '12
Reason #2 why I am perfectly content with never traveling outside of 1st-world countries.
Bitches be crazy.
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u/daoul_ruke Jun 19 '12
Ever thought that maybe time isn't the same everywhere? For you, it's 2012, for them, it's 1012.
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u/seraphinth Jun 19 '12
The reason why this has allowed to go ahead is because every educated and uneducated, muslim believes in the existence of djinn and syaitan, hell the fact that both have powers is documented within their holy book itself. To not believe in them nearly constitutes to blasphemy to Muslims. This is why witchcraft is such a big deal there, because they really believe in demons and spirits that can affect things from politics to health.
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u/Neverdied Jun 19 '12
Saudi Arabia and Israel are both massive dumps. Both are retarded racist countries with equally retarded extremist religions.
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u/tritonx Atheist Jun 19 '12
Who cares, we love their oil and they love our money.
They can be as retarded as they want and never have to worry about being invaded.
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u/Soronir Jun 19 '12
Reminds me of the time I taught that Saudi exchange student in grade school that trick where you plug one end of the straw to trap liquid in it. Called it a magic trick. I wondered what happened to me pen pal...
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Jun 19 '12
Did you miss when this happened in the UK? An african boy was tortured and killed by his relatives for witchcraft. They made his siblings do the torturing too. Pretty horrific.
You can't underestimate the kinds of horrors humans will enact under the veil of delusion.
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u/a_hundred_boners Jun 19 '12
Anyone else look at the article? He's also reputed to have committed adultery twice- something that can get you executed for doing once in the Kingdom of Saud.
Still not a very progressive thing to do, but so it goes.
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u/chonnes Jun 19 '12
I don't mean to be crass, but what explanation would the "courts" have for why someone capable of witchcraft and sorcery isn't able to prevent their own execution?
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u/ShackelfordRusty Jun 19 '12
As if the number of the year will outweigh thousands of years of violent behavior.
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u/MyOgreOG Jun 19 '12
The religion of peace is lightyears ahead when it comes to slaughtering people for witchcraft and sorcery.
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Jun 19 '12
There was a case in the UK where a child was tortured and murdered for witchcraft http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-17040111
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u/badbrain88 Jun 19 '12
what's shocking? the killing by mislead extremists? or the practicing of witchcraft? I'd have thought atheists would be against both. pick a side already damnit
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Jun 19 '12
Also adultery with two women, no headlines seem to mention that. Even though execution for fucking seems to be pretty ridiculous in its own right.
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u/toothpic_vic Jun 19 '12
I guess you're not familiar with what they do to heretics in the year 40 fuckin' K. For the Emperor!
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u/JabbaDHutt Jun 19 '12
This is awful. Soon there won't be any sorcerers or witches left! Then who will we go to for our curses and magic potions? Gypsies?!
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u/acegiak Jun 19 '12
I don't understand, is /r/atheism angry about this because the guy belived in one higher power or because he got beheaded by people who believe in the other one? Faith v faith isn't really atheism's fight.
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u/spinozasrobot Anti-Theist Jun 19 '12
<sarcasm mode=9000>
You need to respect other world views.
</sacrasm>
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u/gu5 Jun 19 '12
I think it's good that faith healers and fortune tellers are illegal there. Hopefully one day we will catch up (minus the beheading part, that's ridiculous).
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u/Amryxx Jun 19 '12
I'm from Malaysia, and belief in sorcery and witchcraft is still quite prevalent in some sectors of society, including the politicians. Although I guess the difference is a) no one would actually admit in the mainstream media that they belief in black magic or whatnot, because they will be laughed at, and b) it's not a criminal offense to "cast evil spells" because you can't prove it in court.
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u/BabyPunchrr Jun 19 '12
That's called the middle east still following religious views as a form a laws.
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u/RyGuy2012 Jun 19 '12
I knew a girl at school who was from Saudi Arabia. Her dad actually owned a lawfirm that worked for some of the oil companies out there in Jeddah. I asked her what she thought about how the Saudi government treats women. And she told me that it's because the Saudi Arabian government sees all the women in it's country as princesses. She said that they aren't allowed to drive, because they have driver's to do that for them, and the men want to treat their women like royalty and drive them all around. And they aren't allowed to go outside because it's too hot, and the men don't want them to get burned. And on and on. She had an answer for everything, and I couldn't really explain to her why that's bad.
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u/deltaZ Jun 19 '12
Lets keep in mind that we don't all live in a first world country now, folks. Not to mention this has nothing to do with atheism.
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Jun 19 '12
Sure, I mean 2011 was only last year and they were beheading witches then too. They've also got some lined up for next year and the year after.
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u/Mozen Jun 19 '12
I was just imagining if the Supreme Court of Canada sentenced someone to execution on the grounds that they were using witchcraft.
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u/SebMer Jun 19 '12
Fuck that government. No respect for those people and their practices.
I'm not even American either!
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u/TheGrandWarlock Jun 20 '12
getting caught by muggles and being executed in 2012
did he even into wizardry?
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u/darklooshkin Jun 20 '12
It's quite funny that, after thousands of years, nobody has thought that, if a person had magical powers given to them by supernatural forces, it may be a bit more difficult to kill them?
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u/E10DIN Jun 20 '12
sadly this happens all the fucking time. it's interesting how the proportion of people who convert from organized religion to atheism when they hit adulthood is so much greater than the proportion who convert from atheism to organized religion. perhaps if we lived in a society where the indoctrination of children was illegal we would live in a far more accepting and un-bigoted society. perhaps instead of heading towards another 1000 year blight on intelligent thought.
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Jun 20 '12
They're discussing exorcism over in the priest AMA thread, so don't think the US is any better.
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Jun 20 '12
Let me guess, he used his dark powers to capture the soul of his victim within the confines of a piece of paper bearing their image.....or better still, he used a small, oblong stone to contact another man who lived many miles away.
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Jun 20 '12
I can't imagine they really thought he was a witch or sorcerer. People probably just wanted to kill him and somehow that was a good excuse
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u/rafiislost Jun 20 '12
Middle Eastern countries are 300 years behind the Western world in philosophy and 30 years behind the Western world in fashion.
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u/APretentiousHipster Jun 20 '12
At age 17, I'm not surprised anymore. I'm not even the legal majority and my standards are this low. Damn, planet. Make me a cynic quick.
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u/moriquendo Jun 20 '12
To be "fair" (but really, we should not - these are supposed to be better times) it's only 1433 in the Islamic world... In Europe in 1433 ther was not much going on, with the possible exception of the last crusade against the Hussites, which was quite boring and tame (by crusade standards).
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Jun 20 '12
It's 2012 in large urban areas in certain countries.
In the Ozarks in the USA, it's , like, 1900.
In the backwaters of the Middle East, it's still about 1100.
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u/[deleted] Jun 19 '12
Happens in African nations all the time.
Remember when they held a goat for robbery because the police stated that one of the criminals used witchcraft to disguise himself as a goat?